Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

[Proposal] Canucks, Stars & Devils


Recommended Posts

Dallas is currently (Dec. 30) finally looking firmly in a playoff spot, after their big off-season acquisitions (Bishop, Methot, Hanzel, Radulov) and realistically are wanting to compete in the next few years for the cup. This deal helps them on a lot of levels. I proposed a similar trade a few weeks back and many people were encouraging about it, except with the main comment that Spezza wouldn't waive his NTC to come to a rebuilding Canucks.  So this deal sends him to New Jersey, a team that is top of the Metropolitan Division, has cap space, and could use his veteran experience, face off skills and offensive ability. 

 

Overall the Canucks add high end prospects, New Jersey gets a veteran centerman to replace Henrique, add experience and skill, and Dallas loads up with a far deeper and more talented roster.  All win with this deal.

 

To Dallas: Alex Edler, Thomas Vanek, Brandon Sutter, Anders Nilsson, New Jersey 2018 3rd round pick (maybe 2nd rounder?)

To Vancouver:  Julius Honka, Jason Robertson, Dallas 2018 first round pick, Kari Lehtonen, Ryan Clowe, Dalton Prout

To New Jersey: Jason Spezza

 

Why for Dallas:

(Dal Cap: 13.875M in, 14.6 out)

This trade helps Dallas in a few areas of need, while also getting rid of their worst two contracts.  These changes can really help push them up into the top team level they're hoping for.  They dump the albatross of Spezza's contract of 7.5 million for this year and next year which provides a lot of flexibility especially since they are only playing him 13 minutes a night.  Plus they stop paying top dollar for a backup goalie and put that cap hit to better use.  Plus they free up a bit more cap space for this year too if they want to make another deal.  With the additions, Dallas is far better all around their lineup.  Edler is the key piece of the deal here, really giving them a lot more strength defensively and rounding out their defense especially after Methot returns.  Vanek gives them another good scorer, which would really help on their second line and power play.  Sutter replaces Spezza in the lineup with a good defensive center that is good on faceoffs.  Nilsson replaces Lehtonen as the backup goalie.  Plus they get a pick to help replace the one they traded. However to gain all this they do lose three key future pieces in Honka, Robertson and a first round pick.

 

Why for Vancouver:

(Van Cap: 8.675 in [plus Clowe's payments on a 4.85 million contract] 13.875 out)

Rather than trading away the pieces in Vancouver for a bunch of picks to different teams, the Canucks package four together to get higher end prospects.  In return the Canucks get Julius Honka, a potential future top pairing right hand defenseman to hopefully one day pair with Juolevi as our top guys.  We get Jason Robertson, a recent 2nd round pick 6'2 left winger who has 40 points in 24 games in the OHL.  Plus we get Dallas' first round pick, which will likely be in the 20-25 range.

With this deal we take on three bad contracts, but all are expiring after this year.  We pay Clowe even though he can't play, we have Lehtonen backup the rest of the year, and Prout can play D to replace Edler.  However the other benefit is that we free up a lot of space in free agency this off-season with Edler, Sutter and Nilsson off the books.  We then have a lot more flexibility to add a player like Kane, Stone or Marchessault in the off-season, or make other trades of taking on players for future assets.

 

Why for New Jersey:

(NJ Cap: 7.5M in, 2.8M out [plus Clowe's 4.85 LTIR payments gone]. They have 6.7 million cap space based on full season so more than enough room for this mid-season trade even with the fact that Clowe doesn't count as a cap hit)

Overall: Prout, Clowe's contract and a 3rd round pick for Jason Spezza

For New Jersey, this trade is very low risk, except for the risk of taking on Spezza's contract next year.  They only give up a third round pick, a UFA 3rd pairing d-man while dumping a player on long term injury reserve who they still owe a few million dollars to, and in return they get a veteran player who adds key flexibility and skill to their roster.  Spezza can play center or wing, he has playoff experience, he is a great faceoff man.  He effectively replaces Henrique in the lineup after the Anaheim trade.  He's on the downside of his career but adds needed elements to their roster on a few levels with very little assets being traded away.  They have the cap space and this trade uses that to their advantage to get an asset without giving up much.  Spezza may not accept a trade to the rebuilding Canucks but he might to go to a playoff team like New Jersey, especially since he'll likely get more playing time and be on a higher line.  The reason Spezza's trade value is only a third round pick is because of his $7.5 million dollar contract next year. This pick could maybe be a second rounder going to Dallas.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Didn't Prout get waived Friday?

 

Anyway; NJ has to put something in to make this deal.  Give up Prout & a 3rd. Get Jason Spezza? Too cheap! Spezza will command more than a third, more than a second IMO.

 

I also believe Clowes contract would have been paid out by insurance.  He's been retired, presumably with said payout, for over 2 years. A non factor. Is the Jersey side is a go?

 

 

I like the Dallas / Vancouver side.  Aside from such big trades being unlikely?  It fills a lot of holes for Dallas. And the right ones. A second stud efensive centre, which Hitchcock will like. Benn also plays centre & can dbl shift if losing Spezza is an issue for secondary O'zone starts. He's in his prime, as is Seguin & they will eat up the minutes. Edler to Hamhuis, Lindell, Methot gives them a deep big mobile LHD D core. They can afford to give up Honka.  Having Heskainen in the pipeline, Johns for some size & Klingburg as RHD. One question, is are they happy going this season with Patteryn as the third wheel RHD? Kilingburg however, is already holding back any need for Honka? Who may even be starting to lose value.  Has not claimed a key role & next year requires waivers.  He might be cheaper then?  But I believe in fundamentals & he is skilled. If we can grab Robertson & a first, exchange Edler for Honka > I'm in.

 

We'll miss Sutter! And it will sink us deep into ''rebuilding!''  As much as Linden has ''let'' the word rebuilding become available? To galvanize the fan base. I don't think they would do it! Aside from the Vanek part?  I would! It creates room for Petterson & Gaudette up front. We also, long term, can afford to lose Edler & we need that PMD / RHD component that Honka brings. We still need an injection of speed and skill to our D. 

 

Aside from the melancholy outlook of Canuck brass, I don't believe Dallas will give up Spezza & three first round calibre assets. It will require a bigger pound of flesh from NJ added to the kitty. Say some mid tier, but exciting and adds speed and pop; Blake Coleman AND a third from Jersey? An extra winger for the time Benn plays pivot. To make it worthwhile for Dallas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Didn't Prout get waived Friday?

 

Anyway; NJ has to put something in to make this deal.  Give up Prout & a 3rd. Get Jason Spezza? Too cheap! Spezza will command more than a third, more than a second IMO.

 

I also believe Clowes contract would have been paid out by insurance.  He's been retired, presumably with said payout, for over 2 years. A non factor. Is the Jersey side is a go?

 

 

I like the Dallas / Vancouver side.  Aside from such big trades being unlikely?  It fills a lot of holes for Dallas. And the right ones. A second stud efensive centre, which Hitchcock will like. Benn also plays centre & can dbl shift if losing Spezza is an issue for secondary O'zone starts. He's in his prime, as is Seguin & they will eat up the minutes. Edler to Hamhuis, Lindell, Methot gives them a deep big mobile LHD D core. They can afford to give up Honka.  Having Heskainen in the pipeline, Johns for some size & Klingburg as RHD. One question, is are they happy going this season with Patteryn as the third wheel RHD? Kilingburg however, is already holding back any need for Honka? Who may even be starting to lose value.  Has not claimed a key role & next year requires waivers.  He might be cheaper then?  But I believe in fundamentals & he is skilled. If we can grab Robertson & a first, exchange Edler for Honka > I'm in.

 

We'll miss Sutter! And it will sink us deep into ''rebuilding!''  As much as Linden has ''let'' the word rebuilding become available? To galvanize the fan base. I don't think they would do it! Aside from the Vanek part?  I would! It creates room for Petterson & Gaudette up front. We also, long term, can afford to lose Edler & we need that PMD / RHD component that Honka brings. We still need an injection of speed and skill to our D. 

 

Aside from the melancholy outlook of Canuck brass, I don't believe Dallas will give up Spezza & three first round calibre assets. It will require a bigger pound of flesh from NJ added to the kitty. Say some mid tier, but exciting and adds speed and pop; Blake Coleman AND a third from Jersey? An extra winger for the time Benn plays pivot. To make it worthwhile for Dallas.

Benning has showed us that he's not willing to throw young players into the line up without a veteran alternative.  By camp last year, Benning had himself covered for the possibility that every young player (who hadn't already proven himself) didn't make it.  Everybody thought that Boeser was a lock but he still signed Vanek and Gagner and Burmistrov late.

 

Sutter is going nowhere imo.  He is foundational.  What I think that means is that through the rebuild, until centre's Horvat's age and younger can prove themselves, Sutter will be there to play the hard match ups.  This is why Benning went out and got Sutter in the first place.  When the Sedin's retire, his value will soar.

 

Same goes with Edler for the same reasons.  Everybody hates Edler but he is the top minute man and a cornerstone on the back end.  I'm happy with the Canucks D.  I think they should draft a right hander with their first pick this year (easier said than done) and most of the pieces are in the system otherwise.  For the next 2-3 years, Edler and Tanev will be carrying the freight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Benning has showed us that he's not willing to throw young players into the line up without a veteran alternative.  By camp last year, Benning had himself covered for the possibility that every young player (who hadn't already proven himself) didn't make it.  Everybody thought that Boeser was a lock but he still signed Vanek and Gagner and Burmistrov late.

 

Sutter is going nowhere imo.  He is foundational.  What I think that means is that through the rebuild, until centre's Horvat's age and younger can prove themselves, Sutter will be there to play the hard match ups.  This is why Benning went out and got Sutter in the first place.  When the Sedin's retire, his value will soar.

 

Same goes with Edler for the same reasons.  Everybody hates Edler but he is the top minute man and a cornerstone on the back end.  I'm happy with the Canucks D.  I think they should draft a right hander with their first pick this year (easier said than done) and most of the pieces are in the system otherwise.  For the next 2-3 years, Edler and Tanev will be carrying the freight.

I did quote that I would do it.

 

But doubted that they (Linden / Benning) would.

 

8 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Aside from the melancholy outlook of Canuck brass,

 

Unfortunately I agree.  But, not that we are on a playoff track, we are playing some very entertaining, and at some times good, hockey while Bo & Sutter are out! It may suggest we can have a crack without the veterans? But yeah, doubt it will really loosen  the outlook of Lindenning.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, elvis15 said:

Any deal with this many pieces has a 0.001% chance of ever happening. Getting two GMs to agree on value for that many pieces is hard enough, let alone three. Three-way trades have to be simpler.

Any deal proposed on this forum has a 0.001% chance of ever happening...what's really going to happen isn't why we make proposals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, underrated said:

Dallas is currently (Dec. 30) finally looking firmly in a playoff spot, after their big off-season acquisitions (Bishop, Methot, Hanzel, Radulov) and realistically are wanting to compete in the next few years for the cup. This deal helps them on a lot of levels. I proposed a similar trade a few weeks back and many people were encouraging about it, except with the main comment that Spezza wouldn't waive his NTC to come to a rebuilding Canucks.  So this deal sends him to New Jersey, a team that is top of the Metropolitan Division, has cap space, and could use his veteran experience, face off skills and offensive ability. 

 

Overall the Canucks add high end prospects, New Jersey gets a veteran centerman to replace Henrique, add experience and skill, and Dallas loads up with a far deeper and more talented roster.  All win with this deal.

 

To Dallas: Alex Edler, Thomas Vanek, Brandon Sutter, Anders Nilsson, New Jersey 2018 3rd round pick (maybe 2nd rounder?)

To Vancouver:  Julius Honka, Jason Robertson, Dallas 2018 first round pick, Kari Lehtonen, Ryan Clowe, Dalton Prout

To New Jersey: Jason Spezza

 

Why for Dallas:

(Dal Cap: 13.875M in, 14.6 out)

This trade helps Dallas in a few areas of need, while also getting rid of their worst two contracts.  These changes can really help push them up into the top team level they're hoping for.  They dump the albatross of Spezza's contract of 7.5 million for this year and next year which provides a lot of flexibility especially since they are only playing him 13 minutes a night.  Plus they stop paying top dollar for a backup goalie and put that cap hit to better use.  Plus they free up a bit more cap space for this year too if they want to make another deal.  With the additions, Dallas is far better all around their lineup.  Edler is the key piece of the deal here, really giving them a lot more strength defensively and rounding out their defense especially after Methot returns.  Vanek gives them another good scorer, which would really help on their second line and power play.  Sutter replaces Spezza in the lineup with a good defensive center that is good on faceoffs.  Nilsson replaces Lehtonen as the backup goalie.  Plus they get a pick to help replace the one they traded. However to gain all this they do lose three key future pieces in Honka, Robertson and a first round pick.

 

Why for Vancouver:

(Van Cap: 8.675 in [plus Clowe's payments on a 4.85 million contract] 13.875 out)

Rather than trading away the pieces in Vancouver for a bunch of picks to different teams, the Canucks package four together to get higher end prospects.  In return the Canucks get Julius Honka, a potential future top pairing right hand defenseman to hopefully one day pair with Juolevi as our top guys.  We get Jason Robertson, a recent 2nd round pick 6'2 left winger who has 40 points in 24 games in the OHL.  Plus we get Dallas' first round pick, which will likely be in the 20-25 range.

With this deal we take on three bad contracts, but all are expiring after this year.  We pay Clowe even though he can't play, we have Lehtonen backup the rest of the year, and Prout can play D to replace Edler.  However the other benefit is that we free up a lot of space in free agency this off-season with Edler, Sutter and Nilsson off the books.  We then have a lot more flexibility to add a player like Kane, Stone or Marchessault in the off-season, or make other trades of taking on players for future assets.

 

Why for New Jersey:

(NJ Cap: 7.5M in, 2.8M out [plus Clowe's 4.85 LTIR payments gone]. They have 6.7 million cap space based on full season so more than enough room for this mid-season trade even with the fact that Clowe doesn't count as a cap hit)

Overall: Prout, Clowe's contract and a 3rd round pick for Jason Spezza

For New Jersey, this trade is very low risk, except for the risk of taking on Spezza's contract next year.  They only give up a third round pick, a UFA 3rd pairing d-man while dumping a player on long term injury reserve who they still owe a few million dollars to, and in return they get a veteran player who adds key flexibility and skill to their roster.  Spezza can play center or wing, he has playoff experience, he is a great faceoff man.  He effectively replaces Henrique in the lineup after the Anaheim trade.  He's on the downside of his career but adds needed elements to their roster on a few levels with very little assets being traded away.  They have the cap space and this trade uses that to their advantage to get an asset without giving up much.  Spezza may not accept a trade to the rebuilding Canucks but he might to go to a playoff team like New Jersey, especially since he'll likely get more playing time and be on a higher line.  The reason Spezza's trade value is only a third round pick is because of his $7.5 million dollar contract next year. This pick could maybe be a second rounder going to Dallas.

 

First off....well presented and well thought out

 

I think NJ has to give up more as well...........I would suggest dropping the 3rd and adding 2 - 2nds to Dallas

 

But that's only my opinion.....................

 

I sent you a beer!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Dral said:

Any deal proposed on this forum has a 0.001% chance of ever happening...what's really going to happen isn't why we make proposals

Sorry, if that's the bar for any regular proposal on here, then a three way trade with that many pieces has a 0.000001% chance. Better?

 

I agree that even finding a proposal that's plausible is hard enough but surely you can agree it's even harder with so many pieces. That's the point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, elvis15 said:

Sorry, if that's the bar for any regular proposal on here, then a three way trade with that many pieces has a 0.000001% chance. Better?

 

I agree that even finding a proposal that's plausible is hard enough but surely you can agree it's even harder with so many pieces. That's the point.

Sure I agree... my point was that I think it's silly to respond to almost anything here with "That's unrealistic"...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/30/2017 at 5:00 PM, janisahockeynut said:

First off....well presented and well thought out

 

I think NJ has to give up more as well...........I would suggest dropping the 3rd and adding 2 - 2nds to Dallas

 

But that's only my opinion.....................

 

I sent you a beer!

Thanks @janisahockeynut!

I spent a bit of time thinking about Spezza's value, and what New Jersey would have to give up.  i was torn because on one hand he would be a good addition.  On the other hand he has an absolutely massive yearly salary, with another year.  He's getting old, and Dallas is only playing him 13 minutes a night, which must say quite a bit.  I'm not sure GM's would give up much for him.  Originally in my proposal was a second round pick, but I downgraded to a third round pick.  Maybe a second is more realistic.  But honestly I don't think Spezza's value is much more than that due to the reasons I mentioned.

 

For the couple comments about three way trades being difficult, I agree, but also think the Ottawa-Nashville-Colorado template is actually very similar.  Turris being one player going to a third team is very similar to Spezza going to New Jersey here.  Personally, I think it's possible.


Thanks for the feedback everyone, glad you like it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...