Unrest in Iran

[MoneypuckOverlord]

4 hours ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

Let them run their country how they want. It's up to their people to decide what happens. The last thing anybody needs is the US sticking their nose in other peoples business because they've demonstrated far too often that they only &^@# things up even worse.

you know that won't happen right? that's what the U.S likes to do.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

3 hours ago, logic said:

People act like if the US wasn't over  there 'influencing' that Russia or China wouldn't be in there doing the same... pretty easy answer to who you would like over there out of the three.

China and Russia does not stick their nose in other people business like what the USA does.  It's not even close. 

 

absolute disgrace to see someone use the "russia and China would do it too"

 

nope.  not a chance, there is influence, and there is taking stuff by force and trying to make other countries do a certain thing.

 

 

 

[CBH1926]

15 minutes ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

China and Russia does not stick their nose in other people business like what the USA does.  It's not even close. 

 

absolute disgrace to see someone use the "Russia and China would do it too"

 

nope.  not a chance, there is influence, and there is taking stuff by force and trying to make other countries do a certain thing.

 

 

 

Recently, Ukraine, Ossetia, Chechnya, Abkhazia, Dagestan, Georgia, Syria, Montenegro etc.

And since Russia=USSR, let's add Cuba, Korea, Finland, Vietnam, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Angola, Eritrea, Afghanistan, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania etc.

But yeah, you are 100% correct, besides few dozen countries, Russians have been very respectful of other countries sovereignty.

 

[CBH1926]

21 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Whatever your views/opinion on Western-meddling back in the days leading up to 1979..... it's 2018 now, 39 years already.  The whole "it's 'Murica's fault" mantra is getting old.  

Iran certainly never did itself any favours in the last 4 decades.... over-reliant on oil, supporting terrorist organization, weapons programs and fight proxy-wars with neighbours.... and Iran isn't a rich country either.  

 

So now their country is in the dumps, running out of money internally and externally.   A theocracy has no place in the modern world and these recent protest could be the symptoms of it.  Faith can only go so far.... no work, no money, and no future.... that's how revolutions starts.  The quicker the regime falls, the better... assuming the ones who takes power aren't even more crazy.  

Biggest problem that Mullahs face in Iran are changing demographics.

Just like lot of other Muslim countries, Iran has a very young population.

 

Out of 80 million people, around 50% of population is under the age of 35.

Youth wants freedom, jobs, future etc, old people are more ok with the theocracy and hatred of the USA.

 

[Hypocritical Cranium]

12 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Biggest problem that Mullahs face in Iran are changing demographics.

Just like lot of other Muslim countries, Iran has a very young population.

 

Out of 80 million people, around 50% of population is under the age of 35.

Youth wants freedom, jobs, future etc, old people are more ok with the theocracy and hatred of the USA.

 

Democracy leads to Tyranny

[luckylager]

1 hour ago, riffraff said:

Civil unrest brought to you by Range Rover

Don't forget to tune in to next weeks episode- "Crushing Debt",  sponsored by The Rothschild's and Soros Media.

[Gaudette Celly]

1 hour ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

you know that won't happen right? that's what the U.S likes to do.

Time to bring 'em democracy the 'Murican way -- with freedom bombs!

[CBH1926]

1 hour ago, Hypocritical Cranium said:

Democracy leads to Tyranny

True democracy doesn't lead to tyranny.

[Ryan Strome]

2 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

Recently, Ukraine, Ossetia, Chechnya, Abkhazia, Dagestan, Georgia, Syria, Montenegro etc.

And since Russia=USSR, let's add Cuba, Korea, Finland, Vietnam, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Angola, Eritrea, Afghanistan, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania etc.

But yeah, you are 100% correct, besides few dozen countries, Russians have been very respectful of other countries sovereignty.

 

Yup the Russians are just as guilty as the U.S. I don't think overlord thought about that post before he/she made it. Tbh depending how bad this situation gets I wouldn't be surprised to see the Russians intervene in Iran to support the current regime. It would only further a proxy war with the U.S but Iran became a strong ally in the region for Russia.

 

It's hard to say especially with a Russian election in the spring but depending how bad things get or how it drags out it could involve Russia, U.S, Arabia and Israel.

 

As for China I don't really even follow that argument as they're busy cyber attacking the U.S and worrying about a Japanese military build up. Certainly China has a strong military but as far as intervention and using force for their own gain thats predominantly the U.S and Russia.

[taxi]

I really feel for the Iranian people here. Overthrowing the regime will be very difficult. The regime is deeply embedded into the fabric of their society. They control the Shiite religion, which is a huge part of the lives of many of the people. They also have civilian spies everywhere that are tasked with spying on and reporting their neighbours. 

[Ryan Strome]

4 minutes ago, taxi said:

I really feel for the Iranian people here. Overthrowing the regime will be very difficult. The regime is deeply embedded into the fabric of their society. They control the Shiite religion, which is a huge part of the lives of many of the people. They also have civilian spies everywhere that are tasked with spying on and reporting their neighbours. 

Ya an overthrow of the government would likely cost hundreds if not thousands of lives.

[Warhippy]

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Today we spend the hour with Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Glenn Greenwald, as we look back at some of the major stories of 2017 and we look ahead to 2018. We begin with President Trump’s foreign policy in Iran, where at least 22 people are dead and hundreds have been arrested, as authorities used tear gas and water cannons to quell the largest anti-government protest since 2009. The protests, which began last week and quickly spread to cities across Iran, are targeting the country’s high unemployment, income inequality and housing costs. Protesters have also railed against Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei and President Hassan Rouhani, On Sunday, Rouhani said Iranians have the right to protest, but said violence would be met with a firm response.

PRESIDENT HASSAN ROUHANI: [translated] I ask all the security forces, the police forces, who have not behaved in a violent way toward the people, I ask them to exercise their restraint so that nobody is hurt. However, at the same time, in order to preserve our country, our nation, our tranquility and peace, for all of this, we must be firm and act decisively.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: President Donald Trump responded to the protests Monday in one of his first tweets of the new year, writing, quote, “Iran is failing at every level despite the terrible deal made with them by the Obama Administration. The great Iranian people have been repressed for many years. They are hungry for food & for freedom. Along with human rights, the wealth of Iran is being looted. TIME FORCHANGE!” Trump tweeted. Meanwhile, the Iranian president, Rouhani, rebuffed President Trump’s comments.

PRESIDENT HASSAN ROUHANI: [translated] This man, Donald Trump, in America, who today wants to sympathize with our people, has forgotten that just a few months ago he labeled the Iranian nation a terrorist nation. This person, who is against the Iranian nation to his core, he wants to feel sorry for Iranians? There is a question here. It is open to suspicion.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And President Trump just tweeted, “The people of Iran are finally acting against the brutal and corrupt Iranian regime. All of the money that President Obama so foolishly gave them went into terrorism and into their 'pockets.' The people have little food, big inflation and no human rights. The U.S. is watching!” Trump tweeted just a few minutes ago.

Well, for more, we’re joined from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, by Glenn Greenwald, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and one of the founding editors of The Intercept.

Glenn, first of all, Happy New Year! I hope the news for you this year is good, at least better. Can you respond first to what is happening now in Iran, this outbreak of protest that surprised, clearly, not only the Iranian leadership, when it began at the end of last week, but people all over the world?

GLENN GREENWALD: So, Iran is an extremely sophisticated and complex country of 80 million people. And I think that when it comes to analyzing exactly what’s driving the protest in Iran, we ought to defer to Iranians, people who are steeped in Iran’s civil society, and ought to avoid the sort of overnight experts who tend to pop up in the West and opine on these matters from afar without much knowledge. Even within the commentariat of Iranians, you see conflicting accounts about whether the primary impetus is economic deprivation or agitation for greater political rights, whether it’s demands that the government reform or whether it’s an actual desire to change the government. So, I think, really, all we can say from afar is that protesting one’s own government without being shot in the street or arrested is a universal human right, and we ought to have solidarity with people who are agitating to make their government better.

But what I do think we can and have to comment on is the posture of the United States government and Western governments in terms of foreign policy and how they’re responding to the events in Tehran. That, I think, we can comment on meaningfully and should. I think it’s worth remembering that for a long time it has been the top item on the foreign policy agenda of lots of factions to have regime change in Iran. Going back to 2005, 2006, the neocon slogan, after they toppled Saddam Hussein, was “real men go to Tehran.” They were really most eager to facilitate regime change in Iran. And so, there’s a lot of interest in terms of agitating for instability in Iran from people who are pretending to care about the Iranian people, but who actually couldn’t care less about the Iranian people.

And you could start with Donald Trump, who, as you just noted, tweeted his grave concern for the welfare of Iranians. This is the same president who, not more than three months ago, announced a ban on Iranians from coming to the United States. He’s somebody who has aligned with the world’s worst, most savage dictators, including in Saudi Arabia and other places around the world. Lots of Western commentators who are posturing about being concerned about human rights in Iran are people in think tanks funded by other dictatorships and repressive tyrants in the same region. So I think we ought to be extremely skeptical when it comes to people like Donald Trump or people in Washington think tanks pretending that they’re wanting to intervene in Iran out of concern for human rights or for the welfare of the Iranian people. I think when it comes to foreign policy, the best thing we can hope for is that the United States stays out of what is a matter of political dispute inside Iran.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, Glenn, and you mentioned Saudi Arabia. It’s not just Saudi Arabia, but we look at Egypt or the Philippines, all countries for which Trump has had praise for the dictators and the authoritarian leaders of these countries. And now to suddenly, at lightning speed, come up with comments about the rights of the Iranian people to rise up against their leaders is—it is—well, it shouldn’t be surprising for Trump, but it certainly gives food for thought for anyone who thinks that this administration has any concerns about human rights.

GLENN GREENWALD: Yeah. I mean, first of all, the centerpiece of U.S. foreign policy, really in the wake of World War II through the Cold War, and then even with the fall of the Soviet Union, has been to align with and to embrace and to support dictators, tyrants and repressive regimes, as long as they serve the interests of the United States. So, anybody in their right mind who ever takes seriously pronouncements from official Washington that they’re motivated by anger over repression or a defense of the political rights of people in other countries is incredibly naive at best, to put that generously.

Just this week, Juan, there was an amazing leak that Politico published, which was a State Department memo written to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson that explicitly said what has been long obvious, but usually isn’t put into words so clear, that human rights is not actually something the U.S. government believes in; it is a cudgel that it uses to undermine and bash countries that don’t serve its interests. They use denunciations of human rights abuses to undermine and weaken governments that are contrary to their agenda, like in Iran, while at the same time, this memo said—this isn’t me saying this, this is the State Department memo saying—they overlook and even sanction repressive behavior on the part of their allies.

And it goes beyond the Trump administration. I mean, if you look at how official Washington works in terms of, say, the leading think tanks in Washington, the Brookings Institution, for example, which has become incredibly popular among liberals in the Trump era, is funded with tens of millions of dollars by the government of Qatar, one of the most repressive regimes on the planet. The Center for American Progress, which is probably the leading Democratic Party think tank in the United States, is funded in—one of their biggest funders is the government of the United Arab Emirates.

So, when you hear people like that or people in the Trump administration, who have aligned themselves with the world’s most savage dictators for decades, who are funded by tyrants, pretend that what they’re motivated by is a desire to liberate people from oppression, you should instantly know that there are other agendas going on. And the reason that matters so much is because it’s not just, “Oh, we’re exposing hypocrisy or deceit”; it’s because what someone’s motives are when they intervene in the affairs of other countries determines the outcome. Look what happened in Libya, where people like Anne-Marie Slaughter and Hillary Clinton and John Kerry pretended to be motivated by the interest of the Libyan people. Once Gaddafi was killed and was removed from office, which was what the real goal was, everybody forgot about Libya, allowed Libya to fall into utter chaos, militia rule. The slave trade has returned there. ISIS is reigning. Because when you don’t actually care about the interests of the people of the country you’re intervening in, you’re only pretending to as the pretext for it, it really alters the outcome in ways that are never desirable.

AMY GOODMAN: And finally, the significance of what’s happening in Iran for protests around the world, the message that it’s sending—something that President Trump might not be as interested in—and what it means for the nuclear deal, the Iran nuclear deal that Trump is trying to pull out of?

GLENN GREENWALD: Right. So, I think that one of the interesting aspects of this kind of cynical and manipulative behavior when it comes to pretending to side with protesters, when in reality the agenda is much different, is that it can actually, in a very unintended way, spark protests and the right of rebellion elsewhere. And that’s why I said at the start, although we shouldn’t opine on the internal affairs of Iran from a distance, because it’s too complicated and kind of opaque for us to really meaningfully do that, what we can and should do is affirm the right of people everywhere to protest against their government without being imprisoned, without being detained, without being shot at with tear gas canisters and without being killed, all of which is happening in Iran.

And so, when Donald Trump, even as manipulative as it is, upholds this value, I do think it can spark protests and this kind of ethos of reform and rebellion and people going out onto the streets and demanding government treatment far beyond what he might intend. Here in the United States, of course, there has been probably the most robust protest, against the Trump administration, that we’ve seen in the United States in probably a few decades. He doesn’t seem to like protest very much in the United States. His Justice Department is prosecuting protesters. But I do think that when you see things like what’s going on in Iran—really poor people, without any political rights, in the streets standing up against a repressive government—it can inspire people around the world to do the same.

[CBH1926]

21 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Yup the Russians are just as guilty as the U.S. I don't think overlord thought about that post before he/she made it. Tbh depending how bad this situation gets I wouldn't be surprised to see the Russians intervene in Iran to support the current regime. It would only further a proxy war with the U.S but Iran became a strong ally in the region for Russia.

 

It's hard to say especially with a Russian election in the spring but depending how bad things get or how it drags out it could involve Russia, U.S, Arabia and Israel.

 

As for China I don't really even follow that argument as they're busy cyber attacking the U.S and worrying about a Japanese military build up. Certainly China has a strong military but as far as intervention and using force for their own gain thats predominantly the U.S and Russia.

Could have been those pesky alternative facts, but I digress.

It will be interesting to see which role China takes in the future.

Right now they are flexing their economic muscle.

 

They are slowly becoming a superpower, something that United States and Russia have enjoyed since early 20th century.

You can see China getting more involved in Bhutan, South Sudan as well as military buildup up in South China Sea.

 

I think they have their eyes set on Russia, with its vast resources and declining population.

They have already been investing in Far East of Russia, it will be conquest with economy and demographics.

Eventually, China will clash with India and Japan IMO.

 

 

[CBH1926]

On January 1, 2018 at 9:41 PM, Hutton Wink said:

Time to bring 'em democracy the 'Murican way -- with freedom bombs!

Protestors will be charged with moharebeh, Persian style democracy.

 

[Lancaster]

On 1/1/2018 at 7:41 PM, Hutton Wink said:

Time to bring 'em democracy the 'Murican way -- with freedom bombs!

To be fair, it worked with the Axis powers.

 

 

[Harvey Spector]

 

[drummer4now]

That time of bombing the frack out of countries is over... 

We now live in the age of diplomacy and reason.

 

Also Iran is a global military power that has key allies like Syria so any war would just end up being costly and pointless kinda like the Syrian uprising that resulted in no change whatsoever and millions of lives dead/displaced. 

[Warhippy]

11 hours ago, Harvey Spector said:

 

Hmmmm

 

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Hmmmm

 

So your two posts in this thread are about Trump and the U.S?

[Ryan Strome]

10 hours ago, drummer4now said:

That time of bombing the frack out of countries is over... 

We now live in the age of diplomacy and reason.

 

Also Iran is a global military power that has key allies like Syria so any war would just end up being costly and pointless kinda like the Syrian uprising that resulted in no change whatsoever and millions of lives dead/displaced. 

Ya that's not true but I do agree war in Iran isn't the answer but given how the protests/unrest possible revolution plays out it it could get far worse before it gets better.