Tim Hortons Heirs Cut Paid Breaks and Benefits After Minimum Wage Hike

[Rob_Zepp]

15 hours ago, DADDYROCK said:

JUST SAY FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT,

THAT US WORKERS WERE TO JUST WALK OFF OUR JOBS WE HAVE FOR A WEEK OR TWO BECAUSE OF A-HOLE RICH PEOPLE LIKE THESE.

THEN JUST SHOW UP TO PEACEFULLY PROTEST INSTEAD.

 

TOO MUCH GREED,SOME PEOPLE HAVE IT ALL AND IT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH.

MOST ARE THE RELIGIOUS TYPES THAT ONLY USE RELIGION TO HIDE BEHIND,JUST LOOK TO THE STATES TO SEE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT FOLKS.

 

These huge corporations come into Canada from the greedy U.S.OF A for the tax breaks and then proceed to act like they own everything and everyone.More GREED at its finest.they must be REPUBLICANS OR JUST AS BAD (SPOILED RICH KIDS). YOU KNOW TRUST FUND BABIES!

 

Look at the stuff SEARS is doing to Workers in Canada.(no more pensions but the corporate elite got theirs first. SHAMEFUL.

ALSO, shame on our own government for allowing this to happen to their citizens,must be alot of payola(payoffs under the table) happening.Once again,

SHAMEFUL

Nice rant but how do you know these franchise owners are rich?   They certainly are not a "huge corporation".    These may well be very average family wage Canadians who didn't earn anything from their Dad's business (which was sold years ago and perhaps they were already not owning much of it if any).   They may also may not have a "trust fund" and I doubt they are Republicans as they live in Ontario.

 

Again, nice rant but I think you have the wrong topic and certainly the wrong people.

[Rob_Zepp]

3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess Australia didn't get the memo, a high minimum wage works just fine for them. 

Yes and no.  Unemployment is an issue in Oz as is cost of living.   They have their share of issues for sure.

 

The goal of having people all have a better standard of living through earning power is an outstanding one.   As someone above pointed out, it cannot be artificial and needs to be tied to providing some societal benefit.   Hard work, education and progressive experience need to be recognized else without some separation of incentives you will simply have the hardest to attain professions/jobs go wanting for people.    

 

All for higher minimum wages but there are consequences - one of them being higher prices and the other more will be expected by society from these roles (and/or other wages will simple rise, prices rise and those wage increases will mean zilch as it is all on a relative sliding scale).

[Jester13]

1 minute ago, soosoodeff said:

I' m done with Timmy. Found fingernail in my coffee... most disgusting thing ever!!! East Indian servers should be watched when handling food.

What's disgusting is your blatant racism. Wow. 

[JM_]

51 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Yes and no.  Unemployment is an issue in Oz as is cost of living.   They have their share of issues for sure.

 

The goal of having people all have a better standard of living through earning power is an outstanding one.   As someone above pointed out, it cannot be artificial and needs to be tied to providing some societal benefit.   Hard work, education and progressive experience need to be recognized else without some separation of incentives you will simply have the hardest to attain professions/jobs go wanting for people.    

 

All for higher minimum wages but there are consequences - one of them being higher prices and the other more will be expected by society from these roles (and/or other wages will simple rise, prices rise and those wage increases will mean zilch as it is all on a relative sliding scale).

we pay one way or the other, in social issues or higher fast food prices, I'll take the latter.

 

 Whats funny about the Aussie experience -  which I hear about from my brother who immigrated there -  is that there are always complaints when it goes up but it never results in the doom scenario's business groups complain about. He runs his own food business there and thinks the bigger problem is getting good employees fwiw. 

[Rob_Zepp]

13 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

we pay one way or the other, in social issues or higher fast food prices, I'll take the latter.

 

 Whats funny about the Aussie experience -  which I hear about from my brother who immigrated there -  is that there are always complaints when it goes up but it never results in the doom scenario's business groups complain about. He runs his own food business there and thinks the bigger problem is getting good employees fwiw. 

Sounds about right - business always complains about costs but it never really hurts the "big guys" but it sure can squeeze smaller businesses and franchise owners - that is what will happen in Canada and that is what happened in Oz from what I understand.  

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Sounds about right - business always complains about costs but it never really hurts the "big guys" but it sure can squeeze smaller businesses and franchise owners - that is what will happen in Canada and that is what happened in Oz from what I understand.  

he's had so much trouble getting Aussies to work for him he's actually been hiring Japanese kids who barely speak English and putting them in language classes. They're thrilled but have to go home after a couple of years. He loves living there but says they are a pretty lazy society  I guess its the permanent bbq season. 

[kingofsurrey]

When canadians have enough pay to cover food, healthcare , housing , and clothes .....  all canadians benefit 

[Jester13]

I find this to be a pretty good read on the issue, as it highlights, with evidence, a few posters' concerns - it even uses other countries as examples: 

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/why-a-15-minimum-wage-is-good-for-business/

[Ray_Cathode]

11 hours ago, D-Money said:

The unpaid breaks aren't much of an issue. It offsets a small portion of the raise, but the employees are still much better off then they were last week.

 

However, the part of the story I take issue with is this:

 

Tim Hortons is a monstrous corporation, that has been making money hand-over-fist for decades. They have also put a lot of smaller competitors out of business. So why the hell should the Government offer them financial assistance?

 

Re-friggin-diculous.

 

You are right that Tim’s should not be subsidized, but then neither should it be unduly penalized for simply offering jobs to people, people are always free not to work for Tim’s. What is wrong is that all of these business’s have had their right to offer work at a price they are willing to pay taken away.  There is no such thing as a ‘right’ to a minimum wage.  A supposed ‘right’ that comes at someone else’s expense.  The is no such thing as a ‘right’ that is not held equally by all, and as such, a right should not require some people to be punished for the benefit of others.  Individual rights cost no-one anything but the obligation to respect the equal rights of others.  We all either have equal rights before the law, or some of us are granted privileges at the expense of others - and that is simply a return to the feudal system where some had privileges at the expense of others, in particular, the so-called nobility.  No-one has the right to ice cream that has to be paid for by his unwilling neighbour, nor does one have the right to a car paid for by his unwilling neighbour, and nor does one have the right to a wage that a neighbour (or group of neighbours, i.e. a corporation) has to unwillingly pay.  If you don’t like what the potential employer offers, work elsewhere, or create a job of your own.  it is about freedom, either all of us have it, or some of us become slaves to the privileged.

[cdubuya]

20 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

If people need to pay an extra 25 cents for their coffee so that the person working there gets a living wage then so be it.

 

Greed is really killing our country.   Take a look around town at all the people really hurting ....  If i have to pay a bit more for my coffee or burger....  no big deal.

i'd argue socialist bufoons like you are what's killing this country

[D-Money]

10 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

You are right that Tim’s should not be subsidized, but then neither should it be unduly penalized for simply offering jobs to people, people are always free not to work for Tim’s. What is wrong is that all of these business’s have had their right to offer work at a price they are willing to pay taken away.  There is no such thing as a ‘right’ to a minimum wage.  A supposed ‘right’ that comes at someone else’s expense.  The is no such thing as a ‘right’ that is not held equally by all, and as such, a right should not require some people to be punished for the benefit of others.  Individual rights cost no-one anything but the obligation to respect the equal rights of others.  We all either have equal rights before the law, or some of us are granted privileges at the expense of others - and that is simply a return to the feudal system where some had privileges at the expense of others, in particular, the so-called nobility.  No-one has the right to ice cream that has to be paid for by his unwilling neighbour, nor does one have the right to a car paid for by his unwilling neighbour, and nor does one have the right to a wage that a neighbour (or group of neighbours, i.e. a corporation) has to unwillingly pay.  If you don’t like what the potential employer offers, work elsewhere, or create a job of your own.  it is about freedom, either all of us have it, or some of us become slaves to the privileged.

Anybody who actually believes that there should be no minimum wage and that a free market would be fair to general society has their head in the clouds (or up somewhere else).

 

Guess what? Left to their own devices, the rich and wealthy will screw you over in any legally possible way (and if they can get away with it, illegally too). I know people have been conditioned to look down on things like minimum wage and unions, but go ahead and look back at working conditions for the average person before these were common. Or, go somewhere like India, where the rich are generally free to exploit the masses as they see fit. In general, it works great for a few, and leads to a life-sucking existence for the vast majority.

 

Quote

There is no such thing as a ‘right’ to a minimum wage.

Um, yeah, there is here in Canada, along with pretty much every 1st world country.

[Russ]

The Tim Hortons corporation (Burger King) is rich as hell but each individual franchise don't make hand over fist rolling in money.  They are forced to buy from corporate, corporates contracts for food, drinks etc. and it isn't cheap.  I remember reading an article one time that the average McDonalds franchise brings the owner at the end of the day 70-80k a year.  Now thats good money, but if you own a buisness and your take home is 70-80k with god knows how many hours worked to deal with food delivery, orders, etc, thats $30-35/hour (on an 80 hour week), thats really not massive for an owner who also has to keep many people employed, etc.  The large head office, CEO, etc. etc. will all bring home multi million figures but the franchise owner really doesn't make a phenonimal amount.

[D-Money]

Just now, Russ said:

The Tim Hortons corporation (Burger King) is rich as hell but each individual franchise don't make hand over fist rolling in money.  They are forced to buy from corporate, corporates contracts for food, drinks etc. and it isn't cheap.  I remember reading an article one time that the average McDonalds franchise brings the owner at the end of the day 70-80k a year.  Now thats good money, but if you own a buisness and your take home is 70-80k with god knows how many hours worked to deal with food delivery, orders, etc, thats $30-35/hour (on an 80 hour week), thats really not massive for an owner who also has to keep many people employed, etc.  The large head office, CEO, etc. etc. will all bring home multi million figures but the franchise owner really doesn't make a phenonimal amount.

Exactly. Which means that either Tim Hortons et al might have to adapt, by charging less for franchise fees, etc... ...still "rich as hell", but maybe slightly less so.

 

Or business owners can go their own way and open an independent coffee shop...perhaps one with decent coffee?

 

And maybe we can all do our part by supporting the latter instead of feeding the beast?

[Russ]

1 minute ago, D-Money said:

Exactly. Which means that either Tim Hortons et al might have to adapt, by charging less for franchise fees, etc... ...still "rich as hell", but maybe slightly less so.

 

Or business owners can go their own way and open an independent coffee shop...perhaps one with decent coffee?

 

And maybe we can all do our part by supporting the latter instead of feeding the beast?

Not many places are open and convenient at 5:30AM so Timmies and McD are going to be my go to's unfortunately.  

 

Its not like owners haven't tried to make things better.  Unfortunately corporates are making things more difficult.  CBC had an article today that said they figure these minimum wage hikes across Canada were going to cause 60,000 job loses by end of 2019.  Add in grocery stores, etc. who are putting more self checkouts in, etc. and increasing automation, etc. just to cut wage, benefits, etc. and there will be even more jobs lost.  Those 60,000 jobs lost, I am sure those people would much rather have seen a slow incline wage increase rather than a quick $3 jump or even an increase at all.

 

I think worse than a lower wage is the loss of benefits.  The Timmies employees who went from 100% to 50%, that extra $240 a paycheck can disappear really fast if you ever got sick, and god forbid have kids and multiples are sick, that would wipe out the wage increase extremely quickly.

[kingofsurrey]

11 minutes ago, cdubuya said:

i'd argue socialist bufoons like you are what's killing this country

Is that the best you have ?  I have been called much worse than that. 

 

I hope Canadians can keep their Christmas spirit going through this new year..   Keep giving and thinking of helping others.

 

So many hurting Canadians right now.   

[Mustapha]

19 hours ago, VanGnome said:

Fortunately, I have not had to work a minimum wage job, however I can empathize with those who do out of necessity. What they are doing is increasing the amount of time an employee needs to be on site for, in order to still have to give breaks (this time just unpaid) as regulated by the Government.

Before wage hike: 8 hours/day @ 11.60 = 96.20/day
After wage hike: 8.3 hours/day @ 14.00 = 116.20/day
 

0.1/hr = 6 minutes. So employees are still making 20/day more than they used to and still get their breaks (1 30 minute lunch and 1 10 minute break)

To me what I have issue with is that people who generally have to work minimum wage jobs need to work 2 or sometimes 3 such jobs in order to provide a living for their families. The extra 30 minutes per day can some times be time killers if people need to rely on public transit and/or contend with commuter traffic.

Wage hikes are nice and all, but its just putting all the burden on business owners who still at the end of the day need to turn a profit otherwise they can't afford to employ ANYONE.

Governments need to wrap their heads around the need for a universal basic income, it's literally necessary now in order to balance peoples lives to allow them more time with their families instead of subjecting people to lives of indentured servitude (relatively speaking); I realize it's a choice that people have to make for themselves, and sometimes people need to take the initiative to better their situation, but for a lot of people it's either work 2-3 jobs to avoid poverty and put food on the table or be in poverty and MAYBE gain skills through school.

I think Governments need to work with businesses, provide tax cuts to businesses and mandate that those savings go into reinvesting in their employees (better benefits, more overtime etc), instead of lining their pockets, provide paid time off for career advancement classes for business management, etc. When more people prosper, we all prosper since there are more people contributing to the consumer aspect of our economy, purchase homes, pay taxes etc.

The single biggest thing I take issue with here is the cutting of benefits. Benefits are absolutely essential, especially for those who have no choice other than to work these levels of jobs.

Governments don't need to mandate what private business does with their profits, if you honestly believe that, why not just appropriate the business to be run by the state like they do in Venezuela, that worked out well right? 

 

God forbid anyone try to actually learn a skill and increase their value in the labour market. I guess its easier to bitch and moan about how you can't support a family on minimum wage..like that was ever the case in the last 2 decades.

 

I made $5.25 an hour in 1998 (minimum wage was actually only $5 where I lived then so I made more than minimum) and it cost me 60% of my gross income to just pay my rent. There was no way in hell I could support a family on that. I realized early on that food service wasn't going to cut it if I wanted to live in an actual house and raise a family.

 

Here's a tip for young people: Go to school, learn a trade, get a technical certification, do ANYTHING that increases your labour value, that's the only way you can expect to make actual money. If you are able bodied there is no excuse. If you decide to have children on $13 an hour, that's nobody's fault but your own. 

 

A lot of unskilled labour roles will be phased out with foreign workers and automation, and increasing minimum wage will only hasten the demise.

 

Employment opportunities don't exist because a person is owed a job - in order for it to make sense to hire someone, the value the person provides has to exceed the cost of the wages, otherwise it's a stupid business decision to hire.

 

Artificially raising minimum wages for unskilled labour makes people in that category less competitive in the labour market, and and as a result, businesses may make changes to maintain their profitability - which is a dirty word in the world of socialist Canada.

 

I am not an objectivist, but reading Ayn Rand and Yaron Brook opened my eyes to the stupidity of constantly raising the minimum wage. 

 

 

[kingofsurrey]

2 minutes ago, Mustapha said:

intain their profitability - which is a dirty word in the world of socialist Canada.

 

I am not an objectivist, but reading Ayn Rand and Yaron Brook opened my eyes to the stupidity of constantly raising the minimum wage. 

 

 

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/why-a-15-minimum-wage-is-good-for-business/

 

When higher income households see wage gains, some of it goes to savings. Additional consumption also often flows to vacations and luxury goods, often imported. In other words a non-trivial part leaks out of the local economy.

When lower income households see a sustained rise in incomes, they spend virtually all of it. Most goes to food (more nutritious food or eating out), better health care and more education. Sometimes it also goes to rent (moving to a better neighbourhood). Almost all of this spending stays in the local economy.

So boost the minimum wage and you boost the economy from the bottom up.

[Jester13]

5 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/why-a-15-minimum-wage-is-good-for-business/

 

When higher income households see wage gains, some of it goes to savings. Additional consumption also often flows to vacations and luxury goods, often imported. In other words a non-trivial part leaks out of the local economy.

When lower income households see a sustained rise in incomes, they spend virtually all of it. Most goes to food (more nutritious food or eating out), better health care and more education. Sometimes it also goes to rent (moving to a better neighbourhood). Almost all of this spending stays in the local economy.

So boost the minimum wage and you boost the economy from the bottom up.

At least someone read the article I posted. Cheers. 

[DonLever]

10 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Anybody who actually believes that there should be no minimum wage and that a free market would be fair to general society has their head in the clouds (or up somewhere else).

 

Guess what? Left to their own devices, the rich and wealthy will screw you over in any legally possible way (and if they can get away with it, illegally too). I know people have been conditioned to look down on things like minimum wage and unions, but go ahead and look back at working conditions for the average person before these were common. Or, go somewhere like India, where the rich are generally free to exploit the masses as they see fit. In general, it works great for a few, and leads to a life-sucking existence for the vast majority.

 

Um, yeah, there is here in Canada, along with pretty much every 1st world country.

Germany did not have a minimum wage until 2015.   They seem to do pretty well without it.

 

Every time we have this type of discussion,  we always have the argument of the rich and wealthy screwing people.  That is nonsense.  The vast majority of business owners run small and medium size business that struggle to survive.   You think it is easy to run a business but it is not..  It is almost a 24 job where you take the job home with you.  You have overhead that you need to cover, costs to consider, employee relations, etc.  A major headache.   How many business fail.  All you need to see are business that close shop all the time.

 

Just because you own a business, does not mean you are rolling in dough.

 

When it come to minimum wage, most people are not against it if it is done gradually.  The Ontario government did a hugh one time 20% jump, that is hard to absorb right away.

So why did the government do such large jump right away?   They did it for political reasons, to buy votes, and not sound economical reasons.

 

 

[kingofsurrey]

17 minutes ago, Mustapha said:

 

I am not an objectivist, but reading Ayn Rand and Yaron Brook opened my eyes to the stupidity of constantly raising the minimum wage. 

 

 

That says alot about you.  Ayn Rand helped turn the USA to be one of most selfish, greedy,   uncaring  nations in the industrial world.  

Wow,  i don't know what else to say.