Tim Hortons Heirs Cut Paid Breaks and Benefits After Minimum Wage Hike

[Ray_Cathode]

1 minute ago, D-Money said:

Anybody who actually believes that there should be no minimum wage and that a free market would be fair to general society has their head in the clouds (or up somewhere else).

 

Guess what? Left to their own devices, the rich and wealthy will screw you over in any legally possible way (and if they can get away with it, illegally too). I know people have been conditioned to look down on things like minimum wage and unions, but go ahead and look back at working conditions for the average person before these were common. Or, go somewhere like India, where the rich are generally free to exploit the masses as they see fit. In general, it works great for a few, and leads to a life-sucking existence for the vast majority.

 

Um, yeah, there is here in Canada, along with pretty much every 1st world country.

Why don’t you tell me what you think an individual right is?  Define it, then we will both no what you are talking about when you claim a guaranteed minimum wage as a right.  Secondly, you might want to point out to me where in the charter a minimum wage is guaranteed. Thirdly, insults are not arguments, they simply illustrate a person’s complete lack of the ability to make a rational argument - ad hominem attacks are simple logical fallacies employed by the arrogantly ignorant.  The source of higher wages is not government fiat, it is increased productivity.  Ever wonder why some jobs garner higher wages than others, it isn’t because some employers are more generous to some professions than others, it is because some talents, and levels of ability are more in demand than others.  Oil companies pay more for petroleum engineers than they pay for janitors because they HAVE to.  The free market requires businesses to bid up the price paid for the quality people they need - it is not charity, it is supply and demand that drives up wages.  Successful businesses are always on the lookout for talent, that is why headhunting firms exist, it is why businesses advertise for employees, and why in non-unionized firms wages are often stratified, even among people doing ostensibly the same job.  Most people that make more money do so because their skill is in demand. If you are not making what you think you should, then maybe your first step is to look in a mirror.

 

No, the rich and the wealthy are unlikely to give you anything, why should they?  Are you willing to pay $20 bucks for a ten dollar burger?  People who have earned their wealth are usually very good at getting value for a buck, but when they see a value, they see an opportunity and are willing to pay for it - the rich didn’t get rich by letting opportunities go to waste.  And you always have the right to create your own job instead of whining about what other people won’t give you.  If you want more, work for it, create something of value, get off your donkey.

 

You are right that ‘average’ people don’t make millions waiting around for somebody to give them what that party has worked for.  It is extraordinary people who do well at anything, whether it is for money, or just the satisfaction of doing something well.  Being envious and resentful will earn you little, if you want more, do something of value to others.  If you want to be loved, be a person who loves; if you want to be rich, be a person who produces wealth, if you want to be happy, find a way to do what you love to do for a living - but it won’t be easy, you’ll have to work hard to be good at something worthwhile.  

[Mustapha]

9 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/why-a-15-minimum-wage-is-good-for-business/

 

When higher income households see wage gains, some of it goes to savings. Additional consumption also often flows to vacations and luxury goods, often imported. In other words a non-trivial part leaks out of the local economy.

When lower income households see a sustained rise in incomes, they spend virtually all of it. Most goes to food (more nutritious food or eating out), better health care and more education. Sometimes it also goes to rent (moving to a better neighbourhood). Almost all of this spending stays in the local economy.

So boost the minimum wage and you boost the economy from the bottom up.

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/want-to-help-the-poor-dont-waste-your-time-with-the-minimum-wage/

 

And here's another Maclean's article saying its a waste of time.

 

If you are an unskilled, uneducated but able bodied adult making minimum wage (whatever it is) you aren't entitled to jack. You have to EARN wealth like the other 99% of people. If you made poor life decisions and have a family, that's not on society or the government. Luckily there are programs like the Canada Job Grant that can help you EARN a living wage. The catch is you have to go earn it..

 

 

 

 

[Mustapha]

9 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

That says alot about you.  Ayn Rand helped turn the USA to be one of most selfish, greedy,   uncaring  nations in the industrial world.  

Wow,  i don't know what else to say. 

I figured you wouldn't. Why bother arguing the issues when you can just speak down to people and shame them with self-righteous snobbery just for reading literature you don't approve of.

 

I have also read Das Kapital and the Communist Manifesto, so does that make us buddies again?

 

I hear it's nice in Venezuela, you should go, i hear its a great place for those with an eye for socialism. Just make sure if you have a dog you leave it at home.

[cdubuya]

48 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/why-a-15-minimum-wage-is-good-for-business/

 

When higher income households see wage gains, some of it goes to savings. Additional consumption also often flows to vacations and luxury goods, often imported. In other words a non-trivial part leaks out of the local economy.

When lower income households see a sustained rise in incomes, they spend virtually all of it. Most goes to food (more nutritious food or eating out), better health care and more education. Sometimes it also goes to rent (moving to a better neighbourhood). Almost all of this spending stays in the local economy.

So boost the minimum wage and you boost the economy from the bottom up.

What good is a mandatory wage increase when it's not mandatory for your employer to keep you on. Basic economics 101 dictates that an increase in price will lower demand. I'm not going to regurgitate all the points Mustapha hit recently but in the robot age we live in, a mandatory minimum wage increase is the last thing the lowest members of society need. They are the first ones to get laid off...

[kingofsurrey]

15 minutes ago, Mustapha said:

I figured you wouldn't. Why bother arguing the issues when you can just speak down to people and shame them with self-righteous snobbery just for reading literature you don't approve of.

 

I have also read Das Kapital and the Communist Manifesto, so does that make us buddies again?

 

I hear it's nice in Venezuela, you should go, i hear its a great place for those with an eye for socialism. Just make sure if you have a dog you leave it at home.

You should check out Sweden and Denmark .  

 

Have  you ever looked at a list of top countries in the world to live in ? 

[cdubuya]

Just now, kingofsurrey said:

You should check out Sweden and Denmark .  

 

Have  you ever looked at a list of top countries in the world to live in ? 

I've read in Denmark that many restaurants already have crazy amounts of automation.

[kingofsurrey]

1 minute ago, cdubuya said:

What good is a mandatory wage increase when it's not mandatory for your employer to keep you on. Basic economics 101 dictates that an increase in price will lower demand. I'm not going to regurgitate all the points Mustapha hit recently but in the robot age we live in mandatory minimum wage increases is the last thing the lowest members of society need. They are the first ones to get laid off....

100 percent not true.

[kingofsurrey]

Just now, cdubuya said:

I've read in Denmark that many restaurants already have crazy amounts of automation.

Get a job in robotics then...   simple isn't it. 

[cdubuya]

Just now, kingofsurrey said:

100 percent not true.

Nice rebuttal bruh

[cdubuya]

2 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Get a job in robotics then...   simple isn't it. 

Tell that to the dim witted McDonald's worker still living at home with his mom

 

To think these issues have simple answers is your first mistake.

[kingofsurrey]

2 minutes ago, cdubuya said:

Tell that to the dim witted McDonald's worker still living at home with his mom

 

To think these issues have simple answers is your first mistake.

Doing the right thing is always simple. Didn't your mommy ever teach you that. 

[cdubuya]

4 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Doing the right thing is always simple. Didn't your mommy ever teach you that. 

No she didn't but my dad taught me one of his favorite quotes: "for every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

[kingofsurrey]

7 minutes ago, cdubuya said:

No she didn't but my dad taught me one of his favorite quotes: "for every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

Your dad sounds like a clever guy.

 

My dad taught me " there is no such thing as a free lunch ".   He was a  senior partner at KPMG.   Miss you dad. 

 

[Warhippy]

39 minutes ago, Mustapha said:

I figured you wouldn't. Why bother arguing the issues when you can just speak down to people and shame them with self-righteous snobbery just for reading literature you don't approve of.

 

I have also read Das Kapital and the Communist Manifesto, so does that make us buddies again?

 

I hear it's nice in Venezuela, you should go, i hear its a great place for those with an eye for socialism. Just make sure if you have a dog you leave it at home.

Venezuela has been a dictatorship since 2009. 

 

Dont kid yourself.

 

As well.  Brush up on socislism in the modern age.   Many socialist nations have been and continue to do quite well

[cdubuya]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Venezuela has been a dictatorship since 2009. 

 

Dont kid yourself.

 

As well.  Brush up on socislism in the modern age.   Many socialist nations have been and continue to do quite well

a socialist dictatorship....

[soosoodeff]

1 hour ago, drummerboy said:

If I was serving coffee to a racist pos such as yourself, you'd be lucky if a fingernail was all you found in your coffee. 

sala guta banjo!

[Dral]

10 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

A living wage should be a right . 

A living wage does not allow for a mortgage.  

A living wage allows you to pay rent ( and it expects you to have  a roomate ).

 

Do you really think employers should be able to exploit needy people in our society and pay them such a low wage that their workers need to sleep on the streets..... and go to the foodbank ?

Then go peddle your morals in Africa or South East Asia... they need they help

 

 

Can you actually show me an example of employers in Canada who are exploiting needy people? I'm sure they exist, but they are few and far between...

[kingofsurrey]

1 minute ago, Dral said:

 

 

Can you actually show me an example of employers in Canada who are exploiting needy people? I'm sure they exist, but they are few and far between...

Thats too easy

 

Tim Hortons, McDonald’s 

 

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Hortons+McDonald+face+criticism+over+foreign+worker+program/9768838/story.html

[Dral]

12 hours ago, Jester13 said:

Well you did say as much when you stated what you did when you were unhappy making $10/hr. The "imply and then backtrack" argumentative style is pretty transparent and doesn't help an argument - well, transparent for those who have studied philosophy, anyways.  

 

There is lots of evidence - outside of emotional, and ethical - out there that increasing minimum wage to a living wage is actually good for fueling the economy from the bottom up. A simple Google search provides some quick examples, if you're interested.

 

There's always going to be blowback when minimum wage increases, but how do you think we'd be as an economy if we never increased it to keep up with increasing standards of living? Should we still be at $5/hr? $8.20? $10? What's the magic cutoff?

 

Will Jobs be lost? Yes. No one would (or should) argue against that. Will the economy be better off in the long run? Most economists will say yes.

 

The debate should not be on whether it gets increased but rather how quickly it should increase in order to soften the initial effects.

 

Lastly, just look at northern communities where the standard of living is much higher than the rest of the country. Why do you think they pay burger flippers much higher than burger flippers in other communities? 

 

This is 100% absolutely wrong...

 

Almost all the peer reviewed studies done on minimum wage have shown that as long as the increases are small, the net overall effect on the economy is negligible...

 

 

 

[Dral]

1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said:

Thats too easy

 

Tim Hortons, McDonald’s 

 

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Hortons+McDonald+face+criticism+over+foreign+worker+program/9768838/story.html

 

That's actually not really a good example.... because the people who did this broke the law...

 

To make the argument you're making, you need to give examples of people being exploited legally... otherwise the argument should be "we need to do a better job of enforcing current laws"... these people in this example, would still be exploited because the boss was a criminal, not because current laws let him take advantage of other people