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Linden and his Position the problem for GMJB


Arrow 1983

do we need someone else in management  

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

We will see about your idea, when trades happen nearer to the TDL.  If JB is the one holding back on resigning, then would he be allowed to make trades?  If he leaves, does he ho work for Chia again?  No trades with the Oilers until JB signs an extension?

Deals never get made by him alone so they will get done anyway. Linden and company will be part of the decision anyway.

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Seats are empty, team’s value is down, they are (likely) losing money.  I wonder if these factors influence ownership too, and maybe more than hockey stuff?

Of coarse it dose! So don't resign the twins and keep the salary costs down. They need to be focused on the long term. From a business standpoint I would want to get this club rebuilt properly so that their was a long term hope for fans to look forward to. They seem to be looking at things in a very short sited manner.

That's my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Of coarse it dose! So don't resign the twins and keep the salary costs down. They need to be focused on the long term. From a business standpoint I would want to get this club rebuilt properly so that their was a long term hope for fans to look forward to. They seem to be looking at things in a very short sited manner.

That's my opinion.

I agree. I don’t get this spending to the cap.  Get younger, sign more UFAs to short (cheap) contracts, and charge less for seats.  Sure wish we could somehow trade that Erikson contract.  With him gone, and the Twins retiring, that’s 20 million!  They could cut ticket prices in half.

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14 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

Why we could lose JB. Simply, because Trevor Linden brings a face to the Canucks but I'm not sure what experience he brings to evaluating trades, assessing draft prospects or convincing top ufa's to come to this team. TL may be the buffer between GM and ownership and is the guy who hire and fires people but what other purposes does he serve as President of Hockey Ops. 

 

I am one of those people that do believe that this team needs to bring in one experienced guy to supplement what we currently have. Secondly this new guy has to have the experience of the guys like the two mentioned above and not to make a change for a sake of making a change. Third I do believe the new guy must be given the reins of the team (full control to make trades and sign ufa's) and GMJB to have last word on draft picks and top adviser to trades and ufa signings. r.

I disagree - I don't think Benning needs an 'experienced guy' to hold his hand or exercise control over trades, UFAs etc - I think you're underestimating Benning.

btw - Doug Armstrong and Ken Holland both have GM positions that they've held for long tenures - ie are not close to 'available' - so I don't see the point wadr.

 

Re-sign Benning - he's more than earned an extension - and continue with the transition - which imo is well on it's path.

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In think they are fine.  Would have preferred one with lots of experience at his role though, rather than two guys learning.  That ship has sailed and they are past the rookie mistakes.

 

Letting Gilman go was probably the biggest mistake.

 

He was the one doing most of the nuts and bolts work during the Gillis years and would have helped them a lot on the contract side and continuity.

 

If you added him back for and maybe added a new guy overseeing player development (Ferraro is local and keeps expressing interest in being involved in a front office), it could let JB focus solely on his vision for how to construct the team and working with the scouting staff to find the players in order to do it.  

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I'm very impressed by how uniform CDC response is to the poll question. Most are in agreement to keep management as is and the next option is to bring in someone else to supplement what we have.

 

I think ownership should view this post, if CDC can pretty much agree on the statues quo then this team must be headed in the right direction. 

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I like TL where he is. He's passionate about this city and team. He wants success.

It seems everyone is assuming it's management waiting to see how this season ends, but there's little to no consideration being given to the thought that JB may not be entirely comfortable being under the microscope that comes with the GM job; especially in Canadian markets.

It doesn't take long to recognize his discomfort with public speaking or being in front of a camera on a regular basis. 

 

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Well, they managed to be picking fourth overall, as of right now.

That doesn’t take a lot of skill, or does it?

 

Best job in hockey, I think.

 

Even if your team bombs... you win? 

Win a few games and it’s a win for the underdogs... the same dogs who loaded up with UFAs so that this season was competitive, yet still manage to float in lotto land? He can’t loose. 

Tkachuck is right there for the taking. Change nothing. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Well, they managed to be picking fourth overall, as of right now.

That doesn’t take a lot of skill, or does it?

 

Best job in hockey, I think.

 

Even if your team bombs... you win? 

Win a few games and it’s a win for the underdogs... the same dogs who loaded up with UFAs so that this season was competitive, yet still manage to float in lotto land? He can’t loose. 

Tkachuck is right there for the taking. Change nothing. 

 

 

and being without their 1st and 3rd line centers, a top 6 winger, and their number 1 defenceman for large chunks of the year surely had nothing to do with that. 

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1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Well, they managed to be picking fourth overall, as of right now.

That doesn’t take a lot of skill, or does it?

 

Best job in hockey, I think.

 

Even if your team bombs... you win? 

Win a few games and it’s a win for the underdogs... the same dogs who loaded up with UFAs so that this season was competitive, yet still manage to float in lotto land? He can’t loose. 

Tkachuck is right there for the taking. Change nothing. 

 

 

and being without their 1st and 3rd line centers, a top 6 winger, and their number 1 defenceman for large chunks of the year surely had nothing to do with that. 

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5 hours ago, tas said:

and being without their 1st and 3rd line centers, a top 6 winger, and their number 1 defenceman for large chunks of the year surely had nothing to do with that. 

Each year there are excuses that see the team in the same position.

Each team deals with injuries. 

Accidentally being in a position to pick high at the draft is JBs “can’t miss” silver lining, each year. Eventually that will be a problem. 

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20 hours ago, Provost said:

Letting Gilman go was probably the biggest mistake.

I would have to disagree. Gilman had run his course with the team, and it looks as if his career as a "capologist" also ran it's course considering he's moved into radio now, and has seemingly become another talking, speculative head at 1040.

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3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I would have to disagree. Gilman had run his course with the team, and it looks as if his career as a "capologist" also ran it's course considering he's moved into radio now, and has seemingly become another talking, speculative head at 1040.

gilman has stated that not only working in, but living in vancouver has been the best years of his life. combine that with whatever buyout the team had to fork over when they axed him and the supplemental income from his (presumably expensive) radio hits, and God knows whatever other freelance legal/financial work he may be doing, and clearly he's not eager to leave. that's likely why he hasn't pursued other nhl roles. 

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7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Eventually, sure.

 

Midst of a rebuild when not expected to do well? Not at all.

I’m happy with JB, just sceptical about his planning and execution. What if he had had better success all of these years and not accidentally been in the bottom 5, year after year?

 

It wasn’t a rebuild, remember? You can’t call it that, not until the last TDL, at least. 

 

I understand your point and even agree, but it’s not aligned with what Linden and JB were saying and doing for the first few years here. It’s an accidental tank job. Guddy, Miller, Mr 6x6 and UFAs kind of contradict a lot of what a rebuild strategy would look like. He wasn’t trying to finish 27th OA with those signings, or was he? 

 

At any rate, I hope Orca does not change a damn thing for another year or two. 

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11 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Each year there are excuses that see the team in the same position.

Each team deals with injuries. 

Accidentally being in a position to pick high at the draft is JBs “can’t miss” silver lining, each year. Eventually that will be a problem. 

I can see this and next year being the last two years that it will be "acceptable" for the approach of rebuilding to be used as an "excuse" for falling out of a playoff spot.

 

Benning has drafted quite well, seemingly doing better (by leaps and bounds) each year, and has provided the Canucks with a solid stable of young players whose chances of making it to the NHL look good.

 

His trades for the most part have also been decent, improving with each year in his tenure.

 

My only issue, be it a small one, is how Benning has performed on July 1st. I still like the Del Zotto and Vanek signings, not such a fan of the Gagner one (should have offered half what he did), and think the Eriksson signing was the worst by a country mile.

 

All in all though, Benning's performance has been inspiring for me as a fan of the team. His eye is firmly fixed on the future, and I believe that his work at the draft will end up paying massive dividends down the road for the Canucks.

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4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I’m happy with JB, just sceptical about his planning and execution. What if he had had better success all of these years and not accidentally been in the bottom 5, year after year?

 

It wasn’t a rebuild, remember? You can’t call it that, not until the last TDL, at least. 

 

I understand your point and even agree, but it’s not aligned with what Linden and JB were saying and doing for the first few years here. It’s an accidental tank job. Guddy, Miller, Mr 6x6 and UFAs kind of contradict a lot of what a rebuild strategy would look like. He wasn’t trying to finish 27th OA with those signings, or was he? 

 

At any rate, I hope Orca does not change a damn thing for another year or two. 

 

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

I would ask, why can't both be true?

 

Even assuming (and it is assuming) there was some initial push from ownership to remain somewhat competitive, I don't think Linden and Benning would have gone full fire sale like so many on here seemed to want to do. As 'bad' as this team has been the last few years, things would have been a whole other level of bad around here if he'd truly sold off anything of value immediately. And I truly believe they had zero intention of ever doing so, ownership influence or otherwise. They had to ice something resembling an NHL team.

 

Despite CDC's insistence to the contrary, there's also immense value in culture carriers like the Sedins and even guys like Burr/Hansen being here until last year and yes even perennial whipping boy Edler etc. (Never mind that we likely got better value for those guys, Burr especially last year than if we'd sold low on them previously). I truly don't think they'd have 'blown it up' whether or not they had freedom to do so from ownership as I believe they do put a high value on culture and leadership (as they should IMO).

 

Then there's the not insignificant road block of trying to move two $14m, declining players who would need to be moved together, had no desire to move and NMC's. 

 

Benning's done the best he could with the hand he was dealt (no prospect pool, immovable players, handcuffing NTC's from previous management, injuries up the wazoo etc). The only move I can truly fault him for as a blunder of any meaningful significance is the Eriksson signing. And if he can play more like he was when we were healthier earlier this season for the remainder of his time here, it's not even all that bad. Every team has a contract or two they'd probably prefer they didn't, he's apparently ours. 

He was trying to ice as competitive of a team as he could while rebuilding. Some of you may have needed to hear Linden actually use the R word last year to believe it but I've been of the opinion they've rebuilding, in the framework they were left with, since Benning was hired.

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20 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

He was trying to ice as competitive of a team as he could while rebuilding. Some of you may have needed to hear Linden actually use the R word last year to believe it but I've been of the opinion they've rebuilding, in the framework they were left with, since Benning was hired.

Is Chaput not a competitive guy? 

Looks like whether it was Sutter or Chaput on the roster, the result is a 5th OA pick. 

It doesn’t make a lick of difference what JB tries to do, he gets the same result, 4 years running, and counting. Is this not a fact? It’s a stat. 

 

I have some reservations about a reoccurring, moot strategy to remain, “competitive”. I don’t think there is a ton of competition to be one of the worst every year, but they are somewhat tougher. 

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4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

 

Looks like whether it was Sutter or Chaput on the roster, the result is a 5th OA pick. 

It doesn’t make a lick of difference what JB tries to do

 

 

these are the types of 'equivalencies' (wadr, your attempt to equate Sutter and Chaput is laughable) that make some of your perspective impossible to take seriously.  that is about as myopic as it gets.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, tas said:

gilman has stated that not only working in, but living in vancouver has been the best years of his life. combine that with whatever buyout the team had to fork over when they axed him and the supplemental income from his (presumably expensive) radio hits, and God knows whatever other freelance legal/financial work he may be doing, and clearly he's not eager to leave. that's likely why he hasn't pursued other nhl roles. 

Maybe. Or maybe teams didn't show interest?

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