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(Proposal) Ken Holland


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The more I think about this the more I like it.

 

Adding new energy at a strategic time. Holland would have a much quicker transition to success than Benning did.  He brings a good reputation and experience.

 

I like where the teams prospects are today. Benning got the rebuild started and I would like to see him remain with the club for his scouting skills. 

 

GO CANUCKS GO!!! 

 

ken-holland-red-wings-7ad2e9bb3254fa01.jpg.0f277c1476547bbaed20fa669167126a.jpg

 

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6 minutes ago, kenhodgejr said:

The more I think about this the more I like it.

 

Adding new energy at a strategic time. Holland would have a much quicker transition to success than Benning did.  He brings a good reputation and experience.

 

I like where the teams prospects are today. Benning got the rebuild started and I would like to see him remain with the club for his scouting skills. 

 

GO CANUCKS GO!!! 

 

ken-holland-red-wings-7ad2e9bb3254fa01.jpg.0f277c1476547bbaed20fa669167126a.jpg

 

Heard - rumour on radio - that Holland (maybe?) coming free at season’s end is a reason why JB has not been extended yet.  

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What has Holland done lately?  

 

http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/the-provies-the-gud-train-the-gun-train-the-tanev-talk-the-rebuild-talk-and-the-holland-situation

 

There are some issues with all of this if you’re thinking Holland would be a fit.

He has been a GM for 20 years. He’s won three cups, 10 division titles and was named the second-best GM in all of sports for the 2000s by SI.

There is a flipside to this, which I’ll get to, but for now drink in that resumé.

 

That resumé gets you power. And word making the rounds these days is Holland isn’t into coming to a situation where there is a hockey executive above him.

 

Of course, in Vancouver, there is Linden. Lord Linden.

 

It would be a stormy sea to navigate. I’ve heard some suggest Linden could move over to the business side of things so Holland and Linden could then co-exist as co-presidents.

 

To me, that seems incredibly unlikely. People around the league understand Linden has been running the team just as much as Jim has, if not more. He’s just going to give that up?

 

Others have suggested to me that Linden’s job could be on the line.

 

Again, I find this one hard to believe. Now, he may leave on his own at some point, but smart people pointed out when he was brought in that the Aquilinis “hired someone they couldn’t fire.”

 

There is all sorts of angst in Vancouver already over the Aquilinis and how they’ve run the organization over the years. Linden is so threaded in the brand and this team, it would risk substantial blowback.

 

Plus, there’s this: Is Holland even worth it?

 

He’s failing in Detroit in trying to do the same things they’ve been trying to do in Vancouver, and that’s balance short-term vision with a long-term goals.

 

Look how difficult it is for him to even answer a question on this topic:

 
Seven or eight years ago, I first started noticing bright people pointing out Holland was overrated.
 

And that his two cornerstone moves, drafting Datsyuk and Z, had everything to do with super scout Hakan Andersson.

 

Since then, the Wings empire has crumbled, run like a team desperate to hold on to an era that has passed them by.

 

A string of bad moves, including ill-advised commitments to players Justin Abdelkader, Danny DeKeyser, Jonathan Ericsson, Darren Helm and Stephen Weiss, have left Detroit with some of the worst contracts in the league.

 

Does this look good?

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-1-14-06-pm.png?w=496&h=369

Good god, $5M for DeKeyser?

The Detroit model hasn’t been a thing for years.

Here’s where Holland ranked on that Hockey Graphs rundown of the NHL’s GMs.

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-3-02-32-pm.png?w=517&h=243

And I’ll leave you with this:

Holland:

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-2-39-48-pm.png?w=543&h=105

Fifteen years?

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-2-34-02-pm.png?w=608&h=401

Seems maybe more than 15 years?

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-2-43-43-pm.png?w=558&h=171

Oh. Could it be more?

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-2-45-25-pm.png?w=575&h=159

lol

Turns out Holland isn’t the only one talking about double-digit year rebuilds.

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-3-24-18-pm.png?w=593&h=247

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10 minutes ago, MJDDawg said:

What has Holland done lately?  

 

http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/the-provies-the-gud-train-the-gun-train-the-tanev-talk-the-rebuild-talk-and-the-holland-situation

 

There are some issues with all of this if you’re thinking Holland would be a fit.

He has been a GM for 20 years. He’s won three cups, 10 division titles and was named the second-best GM in all of sports for the 2000s by SI.

There is a flipside to this, which I’ll get to, but for now drink in that resumé.

 

That resumé gets you power. And word making the rounds these days is Holland isn’t into coming to a situation where there is a hockey executive above him.

 

Of course, in Vancouver, there is Linden. Lord Linden.

 

It would be a stormy sea to navigate. I’ve heard some suggest Linden could move over to the business side of things so Holland and Linden could then co-exist as co-presidents.

 

To me, that seems incredibly unlikely. People around the league understand Linden has been running the team just as much as Jim has, if not more. He’s just going to give that up?

 

Others have suggested to me that Linden’s job could be on the line.

 

Again, I find this one hard to believe. Now, he may leave on his own at some point, but smart people pointed out when he was brought in that the Aquilinis “hired someone they couldn’t fire.”

 

There is all sorts of angst in Vancouver already over the Aquilinis and how they’ve run the organization over the years. Linden is so threaded in the brand and this team, it would risk substantial blowback.

 

Plus, there’s this: Is Holland even worth it?

 

He’s failing in Detroit in trying to do the same things they’ve been trying to do in Vancouver, and that’s balance short-term vision with a long-term goals.

 

Look how difficult it is for him to even answer a question on this topic:

 
Seven or eight years ago, I first started noticing bright people pointing out Holland was overrated.
 

And that his two cornerstone moves, drafting Datsyuk and Z, had everything to do with super scout Hakan Andersson.

 

Since then, the Wings empire has crumbled, run like a team desperate to hold on to an era that has passed them by.

 

A string of bad moves, including ill-advised commitments to players Justin Abdelkader, Danny DeKeyser, Jonathan Ericsson, Darren Helm and Stephen Weiss, have left Detroit with some of the worst contracts in the league.

 

Does this look good?

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-1-14-06-pm.png?w=496&h=369

Good god, $5M for DeKeyser?

The Detroit model hasn’t been a thing for years.

Here’s where Holland ranked on that Hockey Graphs rundown of the NHL’s GMs.

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-3-02-32-pm.png?w=517&h=243

And I’ll leave you with this:

Holland:

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-2-39-48-pm.png?w=543&h=105

Fifteen years?

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-2-34-02-pm.png?w=608&h=401

Seems maybe more than 15 years?

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-2-43-43-pm.png?w=558&h=171

Oh. Could it be more?

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-2-45-25-pm.png?w=575&h=159

lol

Turns out Holland isn’t the only one talking about double-digit year rebuilds.

screen-shot-2018-01-12-at-3-24-18-pm.png?w=593&h=247

You raised a lot of interesting points. Perhaps Holland is not the answer. Anyone have any other suggestions for a GM. Maybe someone young or an ex NHL player? Bill Guerin?

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7 minutes ago, kenhodgejr said:

You raised a lot of interesting points. Perhaps Holland is not the answer. Anyone have any other suggestions for a GM. Maybe someone young or an ex NHL player? Bill Guerin?

Ummmm, how about Jim Benning?

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Vegas is a perfect example of why you don't give an expansion team a lucrative expansion draft. 

All the B.S. of well they paid more money. Guess what every expansion, teams pay more. 

Houston Texans in the NFL paid $700 million, which is $200 million more than Vegas paid, and they didn't get a great expansion draft.

A sweetheart expansion draft shouldn't determine how good a GM is. This is the same GM that traded Forsberg for Erat and Latta.

 

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1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Vegas is a perfect example of why you don't give an expansion team a lucrative expansion draft. 

All the B.S. of well they paid more money. Guess what every expansion, teams pay more. 

Houston Texans in the NFL paid $700 million, which is $200 million more than Vegas paid, and they didn't get a great expansion draft.

A sweetheart expansion draft shouldn't determine how good a GM is. This is the same GM that traded Forsberg for Erat and Latta.

 

I think it is good for an expansion team to get half decent players. Good for the market. 

 

 

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I tried to convince people here a very long time ago that the 'Detroit' model wasn't a thing and hadn't been for a long time - consequently I got lambasted by the people blindly convinced their successive playoff record was the be-all-end-all of pro sports despite the fact Detroit hadn't made a cup final in almost a decade.   They did a lot of great things over there in MoTown don't get me wrong - but anyone trying to argue their franchise is poised for long-term success right now is losing that conversation.  They got HUGELY lucky with drafting 2 HOF franchise players in Lidstrom/Datsyuk in mid/later rounds - some might argue it wasn't luck but skill wherein I'd argue where's the next two franchise HOF mid-round players if it was purely skillful drafting by Holland? 

 

Modern capology of the NHL has passed certain hockey people by - Holland may - I say may because I never write off a guy that's accomplished what he has in the game - have been one of them.

 

JB to Holland would be a lateral move at best at this point in their respective careers and at this stage of the Canucks re-build imo. 

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Holland has made more questionable moves than you can shake a stick at. He is well known for sticking the veterans past their prime and reluctant to turn the chapter onto a younger team...that sounds like the opposite of what we want

 

Benning had a great 2017 and we should all hope he sticks cause at this point it looks like we got the steal of the 2017 draft (pettersson) and 2015 draft (boeser). Stealing players in drafts is crucial in building a great team. 

 

Obviously hes made 3 moves he’d probably do over (taking virtanen over Nylander/ehlers, taking juolevi over tkachuk and signing eriksson) But hey at least he didn’t trade erat for forsberg :lol:

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The guy I want is Julien BriseBois - currently assistant GM of the Tampa Bay Lightning. The guy is a genius, and with Yzerman in place long-term, he's likely free to be hired for a promotion to GM.

 

If you're unfamiliar with his work, here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:

 

Quote

Julien BriseBois (born January 24, 1977) is a Canadian ice hockey executive. He is the General Manager of the Syracuse Crunch in the American Hockey League(AHL), and the Assistant General Manager of the Tampa Bay Lightning in the National Hockey League (NHL).

 

He reports to Lightning vice president and general manager Steve Yzerman and assists him in all aspects of player personnel decisions, analytics, player development, contract preparation and negotiation, as well as salary arbitration for the Lightning and the Syracuse Crunch of the American Hockey League, for whom he also serves as general manager. BriseBois also manages interpretation of the NHL’s collective bargaining agreement and the salary cap for Tampa Bay.

 

As general manager of the Lightning’s top affiliate, the Syracuse Crunch, BriseBois has been the architect of teams that reached the Calder Cup Finals in three of the previous six seasons, including winning the championship in 2012. With the Lightning’s emphasis on drafting and development, the Crunch play an integral role in Tampa Bay’s success. During BriseBois’ tenure overseeing the Lightning’s minor league development program, they have produced two AHL most valuable players, a defenseman of the year and have graduated numerous key players including Tyler Johnson, Ondrej Palat, Nikita Kucherov, Yanni Gourde, Brayden Point, Jake Dotchin, Vlad Namestnikov, Andrei Vasilevskiy and Alex Killorn, as well as head coach Jon Cooper.

 

During the 2011–2012 season, BriseBois’ Norfolk Admirals set a professional sports record with a 28-game winning streak that propelled Norfolk to the AHL’s best regular season record. The team’s regular season success continued in the playoffs as the Admirals won the organization’s first Calder Cup, the first championship by a Lightning AHL affiliate. BriseBois was instrumental in helping build the organization’s depth with signings that proved instrumental to the Lightning and the Admirals, demonstrated by nine players being recalled to Tampa Bay during the season. In 2010–2011 the Hockey News recognized BriseBois as the top hockey executive under 40 years of age in their annual “Top 40 Under 40” listing.

 

Prior to coming to Tampa Bay, BriseBois spent nine seasons with the Montreal Canadiens after joining the organization on September 1, 2001 as director of legal affairs. In July 2003 he added director of hockey operations to his duties before being named vice president of hockey operations on July 24, 2006. In this capacity, BriseBois oversaw the Canadiens’ AHL affiliate, the Hamilton Bulldogs. The Bulldogs went on to win the 2007 Calder Cup during the first season under BriseBois’ direction. On August 23, 2007 BriseBois was named the general manager of the Hamilton Bulldogs, making him the youngest in the AHL at the time.

 

As an American Hockey League general manager, BriseBois has hired two head coaches that have won the Louis A.R. Pieri Award as the AHL’s outstanding coach of the year (Guy Boucher – Hamilton Bulldogs 2009–2010; Jon Cooper – Norfolk Admirals 2011–2012). Over the first eleven seasons during which BriseBois oversaw an AHL team (Hamilton Bulldogs 2006-2007 to 2009-2010; Norfolk Admirals 2010-2011 to 2011-2012; Syracuse Crunch 2012-2013 to 2016-2017), his teams have reached the Calder Cup Finals four times with four different head coaches (Hamilton 2007 – Don Lever; Norfolk 2012 – Jon Cooper; Syracuse 2013 – Rob Zettler; Syracuse 2017 – Benoit Groulx). Also, his 2009-2010 Hamilton Bulldogs reached Game 7 of the 2010 AHL Western Conference Final under the guidance of head coach Guy Boucher.

 

Holland's success was predicated on who worked for/with him, and the results deteriorated as they left. It stands to reason that one major factor in Yzerman's success so far is Brisebois' presence. Not to mention the rise and fall of the Canadiens' drafting and development seems to be linked to when BriseBois arrived and left.

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3 hours ago, kenhodgejr said:

Holland would have a much quicker transition to success than Benning did.  

There is no way for Holland to make our prospects develop any faster than they already are.  Heck, some are still in junior.  We just need to be patient.

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