#MeToo going to far?

[inane]

14 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

It’s not funny.

l'm laughing cause your statement makes no sense. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Just now, Jester13 said:

I think lots of men cross the line and don't know it. There's a belief out there that women need to be coerced into sex because they hold all the cards. 

Coerced is a strong word.  I don’t think lots of men coerce women not knowing what they are doing it wrong. 

 

We’re at a very grey area in the world.

Men might try to pursue women into sex and many women want that. Lots of women dont want to give in right away for being scared they’d be looked at as a slut. The line is grey. Does she or doesn’t she and somehow men are supposed to read her mind? Men are expected to make the first move but are in trouble if they interpreted the cue wrong.  It’s give and take on both ends and both people (not just the man) have responsibly to let each other know there actions. 

[Nucker 67]

Gone too far? It's going to go farther yet.

 

My take is pretty simple, some men think women want the same things as them. Most men don't have a clue what women really want.

[Jester13]

9 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Coerced is a strong word.  I don’t think lots of men coerce women not knowing what they are doing it wrong. 

 

We’re at a very grey area in the world.

Men might try to pursue women into sex and many women want that. Lots of women dont want to give in right away for being scared they’d be looked at as a slut. The line is grey. Does she or doesn’t she and somehow men are supposed to read her mind? Men are expected to make the first move but are in trouble if they interpreted the cue wrong.  It’s give and take on both ends and both people (not just the man) have responsibly to let each other know there actions. 

Semantics are at play here a little: coercion vs. pursuasion, but I completely agree with you that there is a grey area. I will add, however, that this is all part of learning about what consent actually means.

[Shift-4]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

 Most men don't have a clue what women really want.

That's because most women don't really know what they want.  

[Nucker 67]

7 minutes ago, Shift-4 said:

That's because most women don't really know what they want.  

From my experience - romance and respect. Unless you look like Chris Hemsworth, then there are no issues. 

[Shift-4]

5 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

From my experience - romance and respect. Unless you look like Chris Hemsworth, then there are no issues. 

So basically once you give them romance and respect they then change their mind and want you to look like Chris Hemsworth too   

[Down by the River]

1 hour ago, AppleJack said:

 

So until random $&!# like this no longer happens movements like "me too"  not only need to happen but will NEVER go to far.

 

What happened to you, and what happened to millions of other women (and men) is terrible. 

 

My perspective is that you take the route that is most effective in producing change. Producing change can't be done only by women because #1 you're only 50% of the population and #2 those in power are predominantly men. So, you need many allies to help further this important, useful, and necessary movement. 

 

You're not going to get many people on the right side of change when you're advocating for change with complete disregard for innocent victims along the way (even if these innocent victims only encompass a small minority). 

[darkpoet]

Hear that sound?

that's the sound your society makes when Twitter replaces the Supreme Court.


 

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I don't think "it's" gone too far at all, in fact I believe it still needs to go further.  Let me explain before any feathers get ruffled.  In all movements, some people go too far, which often unfairly defines a movement.  First, we need to find common ground identifying what the problem is....err, problems are.  OK, so, at one extreme end we have rapists using coercion and physical restraint to sexually assault.  Then at the other we have catcalls at construction sites.  Are they comparable?  No, not at all, but they are both indications of the acceptable societal treatment of of women.  One important factor, as I see it, is the treatment of women who claim sexual assault.  Women's rights have come a long way in the hundred odd years they have been allowed a voice.  One thing that hasn't changed is that women are often afraid to claim sexual assault because of the track record of the lack of justice resulting from it.  The burden of proof for sexual assault is often a she said/he said battle, and it's uphill.  There isn't one easy solution, but the #metoo movement is a positive development because it's removing the societal stigma of sexual assaults..in my opinion.  Is there collateral damage? Yup.  There is in most movements, but I like to believe the majority of people see the truth in the long run. It's true, Ansari has had his name trashed, but at the same time, it's making people re-think how they make advances on the opposite sex, and apprehension or trepidation beforehand should be acknowledged as something to abide by.  There is another component of this I need to mention.  External from the societal elements affecting men and women (sorry, I'm excluding peripheral genders for simplicity), there is a biological component of the relationship between men and women.  With exceptions, men are more driven by sexual desire than women.  Men have been "courting" women since the dawn of time, but until women's liberation, women were insulated by a lack of freedom.  That's not to say there was or wasn't as many sexual assaults per capita, but for damn sure there wasn't  as many reported.  In the past it was taboo to even report them, the "victim" would end up in a worse position for making the claim than if they kept quiet.  I believe that stigma has been slow to change.  It is changing though, but I recall the response to the woman who claimed sexual assault from Patrick Kane was immediate skepticism and victim blaming.  There is a social conditioning to question the motives of the accusations.  It makes it infinitely more difficult for real complainants when someone makes a false claim, regardless of how minuscule the percentage of false to actual claims is.  We shouldn't be using false claims as a default to question people who claim sexual assault, it's hard enough already with the existing stigma.  The #metoo movement is addressing that stigma, and that is why I fully support it.

 

Spock could explain it better, but he's not real.

 

I should also add that I don't think Margaret Atwood is wrong in what she says, there needs to be healthy conversation fix the stigma, from all of us. 

[themcdeal]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

We need less victimhood culture. 

So true.

Ben Shapiro has a good pretty break down with peoples obsessions with being a victim. But I'm sure people will say it's not possible for him to be one because of his white privilege

[Gurn]

I could say something, but since people have already made up their minds, why bother? No matter which or what I say a percentage of folk are either going to agree with me, label me a monster or a small few would say maybe he has a point.

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, AppleJack said:

This movement is beyond needed and its about damn time women stand up and say ENOUGH!!

Let me share some personal examples of sexual harrassment with you guys.

 

I could tell you about the time in highschool when numerous boys tormented and teased me by making inappopriate, rude comments about my body , how they would push me up against lockers,pinning me down, and touch my breasts or ass. All the time I yelling at them to stop and no one came to my aid,nor where  the boys punished when I brought it adults attention.

 

Or what about the time I was follwed as I walked downtown by numerous men catcalling me.

 

Or what about the time at a bus stop a guy not only made rude sexual comments towards me but proceeded to touch himself when I ignored his comments.

 

Or how about the time when I was the skytrain a guy sat beside me, looked at me, made a comment about my obvious pregnant belly and then proceeded to touch my knee as be made comments about my pregnancy.

 

Or the time a random guy actually threarned me because I turned down his advances.

Need I go on? Sadly I have countless stories of what its like to be a woman in a male dominated society.

So until random $&!# like this no longer happens movements like "me too"  not only need to happen but will NEVER go to far.

 

God, there are men who are pigs.  I hope the are a great many more positive experiences for you, with decent men, than these terrible ones.  

[KelownaCanucksFan]

Yes it’s gone to far, recently a friend of mine dated a coworker for a while, he broke up with her and the next day she told the manager that my friend had made sexual advances in the work place.. they both had been guilty of that. He was quickly let go without any due process which is the whole basis of our justice system but now it’s hang him and then see if he’s guilty after. It’s so wrong and backwards what is going on there’s never in history been a worse time to be male, no matter what you do your automatically guilty. 

 

 

[Rob_Zepp]

3 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

I'll just say that last tweet is thoughtless, spiteful and just plain redonkulous.  I am just glad that I abided by the code and never once disrespected or taken advantage of any woman.  I guess that is just a by product of being incredibly shy and 'humbled' by my lack of good looks and having a mother that taught me how to treat a lady.  As a man I feel utter embarrassment when I hear or read about these sexual allegations so there definitely needed to be a movement and I guess that last tweet in the op was made out of anger and frustration, something I cannot relate too but also don't agree with. 

Could not agree more.   Just substitute another group in society and another disfavourable activity and then see how the politically correct police will explode on that kind of statement.   It is akin to a trial where assume everyone guilty as if you kill them all, you will get some that are guilty so the collateral damage is acceptable.    

[Nucker 67]

I wonder if we'll ever see a day when a woman is outed for sexual harassment.  What concerns me is this is turning into a "Men are Pigs and they will Pay" movement, rather than a straight forward harassment movement. Harassment is in the eye of the receiver.

 

I also wonder if this is an opportunity for forgotten celebrities to make themselves relevant again. 

[nucklehead]

2 hours ago, goalie13 said:

North Dakota?

 

[riffraff]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

Gone too far? It's going to go farther yet.

 

My take is pretty simple, some men think women want the same things as them. Most men don't have a clue what women really want.

You're damn right!

[Alflives]

 

This concept of accepting collateral damage is someone not thinking clearly.  

[Rob_Zepp]

3 hours ago, AppleJack said:

This movement is beyond needed and its about damn time women stand up and say ENOUGH!!

Let me share some personal examples of sexual harrassment with you guys.

 

I could tell you about the time in highschool when numerous boys tormented and teased me by making inappopriate, rude comments about my body , how they would push me up against lockers,pinning me down, and touch my breasts or ass. All the time I yelling at them to stop and no one came to my aid,nor where  the boys punished when I brought it adults attention.

 

Or what about the time I was follwed as I walked downtown by numerous men catcalling me.

 

Or what about the time at a bus stop a guy not only made rude sexual comments towards me but proceeded to touch himself when I ignored his comments.

 

Or how about the time when I was the skytrain a guy sat beside me, looked at me, made a comment about my obvious pregnant belly and then proceeded to touch my knee as be made comments about my pregnancy.

 

Or the time a random guy actually threarned me because I turned down his advances.

Need I go on? Sadly I have countless stories of what its like to be a woman in a male dominated society.

So until random $&!# like this no longer happens movements like "me too"  not only need to happen but will NEVER go to far.

 

I am very sorry for your experiences and don't want to diminish them as none of that was remotely acceptable.   REAL men who were witness to any of those would have intervened and stopped those activities in a heartbeat as I am sure many on this board have done many times.   Believe it or not, REAL men police this crap by the minority of pigs that roam among the herd.   HOWEVER, I would hope you don't believe that innocent and caring men are caught up in this and have their lives ruined by association?    

 

I also sincerely hope you have found the majority of men in your live to not be the pigs you describe and that you will continue to see most are working to make this a non-dominated-by-anyone society but one where everyone is treated fairly irrespective of race, sex or even (I am working on this one) professional sporting fan affiliation.