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The Re-Build, Benning, and Ownership(Discussion)


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Well, there certainly must be pressure on Benning right now, and the truth is Aqualini didn't make all his money, without a good return, so could we speed up our rebuild?

 

So, the facts are as I see them, is that when healthy we compete with the majority of the league on a day to day basis, but our current lack of depth, fails us, when there is a large hit to our core players...........go figure!

 

So, is there a way to speed this thing up, as waiting 4 to 5 years for any defensive prospects to develop, may not be something Aqualini can swallow............

 

Keeping our present group of prospects, and building on it, would be painful, but is there a way to move this along?

 

So, here are my questions..................................

 

#1. What would we be able to obtain in the form of obtaining a young right hand top 2 defensemen for our 2018 - 1st round pick, unprotected? (Max value of pick)

Dumba, Parayko, Manson, Trouba?......make a list!....They are young offensive Dmen...............is there more targets...........do we ask for more if we are targeting them? Or do we end up paying?           If Horvat (9th OA) = Schneider, then does Trouba + a 2nd = a 2018 1st unprotected?.............Probably!

 

#2. Would you move our 2019 1st pick in the same manner? Does Hutton + 2019 1st = Cam Fowler + 2018 2nd?

 

#3. Would you go after Kane or Tavares in the summer?

 

#4. Would shuffling the deck, make a positive difference or leave the team in a shambles?

 

#5. Could the Canucks aggressively go back after Tryamkin, and get him back here, next year? (It seems a lot of our defense problems happened when he left)

 

If Aqualini, gets impatient, which he may be doing, as there are rumblings that he may, does he go out and get that aggressive GM, that has old school connections and who rebuilds aggressively?

 

The Sedin's are not the answer to our problems, but they do present a soft place to land, if a GM failed in his first time at bat....................If the Sedin's would hold off and commit to a another year "IF" needed, with the understanding that The Canuck were going after some targets, then that becomes a safety value.

 

If it is deemed that Dmen, like Gudbranson, Stecher, DMZ, and Pouliot are all not in the cards what could be done?

 

Is our Defense fixed with......................a change of

 

Edler          Tanev

Fowler        Trouba

Juolevi       Tryamkin

McEneny/Holm/Briseboise  -  Biega/Chatfield

 

What does our forward group look like with Tavares signing a 12 million 6 year contract? (No Sedin's)

 

I am not saying or suggesting any of this will happen, only that an aggressive GM, with an impatient Owner, could change the make up substantially.............

 

Are these types of moves possible?

 

Also consider the mix of age groups doesn't change much

 

Out: Vanek, Baertschi, Gudbranson, MDZ, Stecher, Pouliot and Nilsson...........Out: 2018 1st + 2019 1st

 

In : Gaudette/Juolevi/Demko, Tavares...........Posssibly Pettersson/Kane ?...........Fowler/Trouba/Tryamkin...........In return Picks (1st's/2nd's/3rd's) for players out (Nilsson = nothing)

 

Blaze away......ignore.......or join in! 

 

Hey, all is good!.....this post is about Ownership and a GM........just in case I have lost you! Cheers

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I would take a large chunk of the Sedin money and throw it at Tavares, see if there's any bite. Having a one-two Tavares / Horvat combination up the middle like that is, in my opinion, the path to a cup. Every cup winning team in the past 20 years has had that kind of Centre depth. At 27, he'd be fine for many years - even if it was a 7 year deal, he'd 'expire' at 34. I don't see him declining that sharply in that time.

 

Bolts: Lecavalier + Richards

Carolina: Staal + Brindamour

Chicago: Toews and kind of whoever the flavour of the day is, but they're always good.

Pittsburgh: Crosby / Malkin, obviously

Anaheim: Getslaf and Andrew Macdonald

Kings: Carter + Kopitar

Boston: Krejci + Bergeron + Rat Man

 

Forget Kane, he's overrated and would want too much money.

 

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We need to improve our D for the long term. Remember we all hail Demko as the goalie of the future. Got to have a good D core when he breaks into the league. Would I pay up to acquire a Trouba if he signed an extension yes I would, depending on the ask.

 

I would try hard to sign JT if he was a FA, but damn he will have massive offers and better teams offering them. So unless he wants to live out west I say slim chance.

 

I would try so sign Carlson if we cant land a trouba type D in a trade. E. Kane hey see what his asking price is. If they guy wants 7-8yrs at 7m or more then I would think we pass. We will have to sign Boeser and we are stuck with Eriksson. If we could off load Eriksson to the Coyotes to save cap space then I would have a lot more interest in Kane under 7m @ 5-6yr term.

 

I think JB tried the quick fix rebuild by signing Miller, Eriksson and trading picks and prospects for a hopefully quicker NHL impact. This is maybe a reason why JB is without a contract. The owners wanted 1 last kick at the can at a playoff run with the Twins. Well that window has all but closed. They may want to cut salary and not be a cap team if they know they are going to suck? Hence why a new GM and new direction is what could be in store for us after the season. But looks like Twins will return so who knows what will happen.

 

I do NOT advocate we get Ken Holland. He has made so many crappy signings in Detroit in recent years, he is still riding the coat tails of the Lidstrom/Datysuk era, he has done nothing good lately. Go after a Assistant GM from a good drafting team like TB or Nashville etc if we look for a new GM

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7 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said:

I think canucks need to look at younger Dmen as we haven't even gotten to a Sedinless Canuck era. It would be great if we could be in better position sooner rather than later but we are close to a major change in this team and most other teams that have been through this usually takes some time.   we aren't even there yet.  Look at how long it took to go from the WestCoast Express to the Sedin Era.   there was some pain and suffering there. As for Benning he would be smart to accept an ASST. position if the offer presents itself as I dont see him getting another kick at the can as a GM somewhere else, just look at Gillis.

Trouba would be most ideal. he is just shy of being 24 with quite a bit of nhl experience. Is he a higher end pt producing D? Dont know he has a lot of competition in that regard. He could blossom as the go to offensive guy in Vancouver. Carlson in Washington has stepped up since Green and Shattenkirk have left.

 

I honestly dont know what Winnipeg would want for him. They have great F depth, LHD is maybe their biggest weakness? but we dont got much to offer, Juolevi but that is Trouba's potential long term playing partner here ideally

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This proposal would not make us a cup contender now, AND it would mess over our future.  We just need patience for one or two more years.  After two more years, then maybe it will be time to throw big money at a key free agent like Ekman Larsson or maybe even Karlsson.  At that point we'd have our young guys ready to compete and a 3-4 year window of guys on ELC's.

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Canucks should definitely take advantage of the saturated market in the future... Many names like Karlsson and OEL that will possibly be on different teams next year. I wouldn't focus too much on the handedness of the player being acquired, because if they are a high calibre player, that is somebody you can build around. I have no problem moving any of our left handed defensemen in a separate deal to make that happen, and then look at F/A or the draft for a RHD.

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Nobody should panic because we lost a pile of games when Horvat, Sutter, Baertschi, at times Tanev & Gudbranson were out. We're also better than current perceptions.  

 

John Carlson would be the single most useful player we could land.  Mike Green a budget, if there is such a thing, still over $5 mill, option?  I'm only down with Green on 1 to 3 year pacts...  (Maybe he slips like Vanek :huh: ???)

 

Particularly if Guddy is gone! Good, right handed D & Carlson still has most of his prime! And by god, find a way to draft a D this year!

 

Evander Kane would also be immensely useful. He can pop goals with our evolving crew of hybrid playmakers (Baer, Petterson, Brock all can dish). Plus add some snarl. And most important, he has game stretching speed. Even younger than Carlson...

 

 

Besides that, stay with the program!  As Juolevi, Dahlen, Lockwood (hopefully he can get healthy), Petterson, Gaudette, Lind, our pick this year, start arriving we  become faster again, more skilled, even slick. 

 

 

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Kane would give us game breaking speed on one line. Jake on another.  

 

One thing our skill players currently lack (Boeser, Dank, Vanek, Granlund) is speed.  Its another key reason we're not a better team.  

 

As the young speed arrives, and we find other ways to inject it, it should help some of the skill players who don't have it.  

 

But we will really only arrive when most of our KEY talent has it!

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For me the defensive core we have is good when healthy. WWe do need to get younger in the defensive core and some who are less injury prone. I mean I like Edler, Gudbranson and Tanev but they are forever out of the lineup. In my mind we may be competative in a couple years so we need to move these 3 at least while they have value for prospects and picks (just like any vet we can get a return on now). Prime example would be the Flames. Right now Tyler Wotherspoon and Rasmus Andersson are looking really good and with their defense as it stands would take a while for them to get in. Just as an example one of the above (depending on who they wanted) for Kapanen who is having trouble breaking into the leafs lineup.

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people on here are so quick to draw conclusions based on the smallest of sample sizes

wow . we beat a diminishing kings team

good for the canucks

 

who did we lose to recently?

coliers.. and they really suck

jets - yeah they are good

 

let's see this canuck team go on a 3 game winning run playing more then bottom feeders

before drawing conclusions about this team . healthy or not

and the upcoming sabre game does not really count.. win and we beat a really lousy team

lose and you better draw the same, but opposite, conclusions you have reached after the kings game

 

this is the second half of the season folks

the good teams are now taking games seriously

let's see our key players maintain their production against the better teams

and then we can revisit whether the canucks are anywhere as good as they appeared to be in the first 20 games

i'm not so optimistic about that

 

really hope i'm proven wrong

but the signs are already there if the kings game is overlooked

our key players, sedins, bo, brock.. have been effectively shut down

and the team is not earning many points

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1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Nobody should panic because we lost a pile of games when Horvat, Sutter, Baertschi, at times Tanev & Gudbranson were out. We're also better than current perceptions.  

 

John Carlson would be the single most useful player we could land.  Mike Green a budget, if there is such a thing, still over $5 mill, option?  I'm only down with Green on 1 to 3 year pacts...  (Maybe he slips like Vanek :huh: ???)

 

Particularly if Guddy is gone! Good, right handed D & Carlson still has most of his prime! And by god, find a way to draft a D this year!

 

Evander Kane would also be immensely useful. He can pop goals with our evolving crew of hybrid playmakers (Baer, Petterson, Brock all can dish). Plus add some snarl. And most important, he has game stretching speed. Even younger than Carlson...

 

 

Besides that, stay with the program!  As Juolevi, Dahlen, Lockwood (hopefully he can get healthy), Petterson, Gaudette, Lind, our pick this year, start arriving we  become faster again, more skilled, even slick. 

 

 

Spot on!

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59 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Kane would give us game breaking speed on one line. Jake on another.  

 

One thing our skill players currently lack (Boeser, Dank, Vanek, Granlund) is speed.  Its another key reason we're not a better team.  

 

As the young speed arrives, and we find other ways to inject it, it should help some of the skill players who don't have it.  

 

But we will really only arrive when most of our KEY talent has it!

Bang on!

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4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Historically, doesn't attempting to speed up a rebuild by trading draft picks for current players usually only result in disaster?

like when you're in a dream and running as fast as you can to try and escape the monster, yet you're barely even moving

 

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1 hour ago, Ojibwa72 said:

For me the defensive core we have is good when healthy. WWe do need to get younger in the defensive core and some who are less injury prone. I mean I like Edler, Gudbranson and Tanev but they are forever out of the lineup. In my mind we may be competative in a couple years so we need to move these 3 at least while they have value for prospects and picks (just like any vet we can get a return on now). Prime example would be the Flames. Right now Tyler Wotherspoon and Rasmus Andersson are looking really good and with their defense as it stands would take a while for them to get in. Just as an example one of the above (depending on who they wanted) for Kapanen who is having trouble breaking into the leafs lineup.

I would agree we have become a scrappier defensively and slightly harder to play against D core this year. That's as much about coaching and systems as it is personnel though? 

 

We added MDZ and Pouliot this year.

 

Which has been a better attempt to add speed and puck handling than when we re-signed Weber & added Bartkowski 3 years ago! When it was reported / retorted that we would be better. Because with speed we could get to pucks and clear them rather than play defence?

 

And our results have been hampered with injuries this year.  But we're also on target to be dead last in scoring by D. A goal would put us on track to be second or 4th last?  

 

We still need an extremely healthy infusion of skill on our blue line. Juolevi on his own won't do it...

 

Even if we added Dahlin we still probably would need more turnover.

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41 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

people on here are so quick to draw conclusions based on the smallest of sample sizes

wow . we beat a diminishing kings team

good for the canucks

 

who did we lose to recently?

coliers.. and they really suck

jets - yeah they are good

 

let's see this canuck team go on a 3 game winning run playing more then bottom feeders

before drawing conclusions about this team . healthy or not

and the upcoming sabre game does not really count.. win and we beat a really lousy team

lose and you better draw the same, but opposite, conclusions you have reached after the kings game

 

this is the second half of the season folks

the good teams are now taking games seriously

let's see our key players maintain their production against the better teams

and then we can revisit whether the canucks are anywhere as good as they appeared to be in the first 20 games

i'm not so optimistic about that

 

really hope i'm proven wrong

but the signs are already there if the kings game is overlooked

our key players, sedins, bo, brock.. have been effectively shut down

and the team is not earning many points

Good post!

 

I do anticipate us playing at least tighter & with more energy now that Horvat, Baer & Sutter are all back. Tanev as well...

 

Which should avoid blowouts & bad games.  Give us a chance to win close games against average teams.  We still should lose to the Nashville's & Tampa's of the world.  Hopefully they are just energetic games. Not a run of ten where we give up around 5 goals each...

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2 hours ago, darkpoet said:

like when you're in a dream and running as fast as you can to try and escape the monster, yet you're barely even moving

 

Dream?  Don’t you have a mother-in-law?  Mine is damned fast on that broom of hers!  :lol:

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7 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Well, there certainly must be pressure on Benning right now, and the truth is Aqualini didn't make all his money, without a good return, so could we speed up our rebuild?

 

So, the facts are as I see them, is that when healthy we compete with the majority of the league on a day to day basis, but our current lack of depth, fails us, when there is a large hit to our core players...........go figure!

 

So, is there a way to speed this thing up, as waiting 4 to 5 years for any defensive prospects to develop, may not be something Aqualini can swallow............

 

Keeping our present group of prospects, and building on it, would be painful, but is there a way to move this along?

 

So, here are my questions..................................

 

#1. What would we be able to obtain in the form of obtaining a young right hand top 2 defensemen for our 2018 - 1st round pick, unprotected? (Max value of pick)

Dumba, Parayko, Manson, Trouba?......make a list!....They are young offensive Dmen...............is there more targets...........do we ask for more if we are targeting them? Or do we end up paying?           If Horvat (9th OA) = Schneider, then does Trouba + a 2nd = a 2018 1st unprotected?.............Probably!

 

#2. Would you move our 2019 1st pick in the same manner? Does Hutton + 2019 1st = Cam Fowler + 2018 2nd?

 

#3. Would you go after Kane or Tavares in the summer?

 

#4. Would shuffling the deck, make a positive difference or leave the team in a shambles?

 

#5. Could the Canucks aggressively go back after Tryamkin, and get him back here, next year? (It seems a lot of our defense problems happened when he left)

 

If Aqualini, gets impatient, which he may be doing, as there are rumblings that he may, does he go out and get that aggressive GM, that has old school connections and who rebuilds aggressively?

 

The Sedin's are not the answer to our problems, but they do present a soft place to land, if a GM failed in his first time at bat....................If the Sedin's would hold off and commit to a another year "IF" needed, with the understanding that The Canuck were going after some targets, then that becomes a safety value.

 

If it is deemed that Dmen, like Gudbranson, Stecher, DMZ, and Pouliot are all not in the cards what could be done?

 

Is our Defense fixed with......................a change of

 

Edler          Tanev

Fowler        Trouba

Juolevi       Tryamkin

McEneny/Holm/Briseboise  -  Biega/Chatfield

 

What does our forward group look like with Tavares signing a 12 million 6 year contract? (No Sedin's)

 

I am not saying or suggesting any of this will happen, only that an aggressive GM, with an impatient Owner, could change the make up substantially.............

 

Are these types of moves possible?

 

Also consider the mix of age groups doesn't change much

 

Out: Vanek, Baertschi, Gudbranson, MDZ, Stecher, Pouliot and Nilsson...........Out: 2018 1st + 2019 1st

 

In : Gaudette/Juolevi/Demko, Tavares...........Posssibly Pettersson/Kane ?...........Fowler/Trouba/Tryamkin...........In return Picks (1st's/2nd's/3rd's) for players out (Nilsson = nothing)

 

Blaze away......ignore.......or join in! 

 

Hey, all is good!.....this post is about Ownership and a GM........just in case I have lost you! Cheers

would us rather keep picks high picks then trade for older guys that might play 5 years and take a chance that we get someone better for ten plus years as that is how you rebuild

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