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(Proposal) Trade For Number 1.


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Just now, TheGuardian_ said:

Arizona- Needs money, desperate to make the playoffs, internal cap, already has OEL, need depth, could use some additional leadership.

 

So lets not even consider any players with clause contracts.

 

Canucks get Bolland and exchange 1rst's.

Arizona gets - Canucks 1rst and 2nd, Virtanen, OJ, DiPietro, Goldoblin, Baerstchi, 5 million ....  maybe Granlund.

Ok I’m going to break this down for you.

 

 

Goldobin and Virtanen are two waiver picks up next year. They bring next to know value to a team like yotes, who already are loaded with better talent in their own system,  (Fisher, Dvorak, Perlini, Keller, Strome, Domi, Crouse)

Juolevi also doesn’t bring a ton of value to them as they are stacked with D on the left side.  They have Chychrun, OEL, Goligoski, and the just used there first round pick last year on Pierre-Olivier Joseph, another left handed D.

You can’t trade money in today’s game, only take on a bad contract. 

Bolland in injured indefinitely meaning they only have to pay 20% of his salary, so trading him to use saves them a 1 million.

Diepetro had a long ways to go before he has any real value.

Baertschi is 25 and hasn’t ever produces more than 35 points in season.  They already have that exact same player in Reider

 

 

You know what they coyotes franchise need.

 

A star player that brings fans to the games and a top pairing RHD. 

 

Dahlin checks off both boxes.  They laugh and hang up, and block JB’s number,  Quality over quantity, throwing a bunch of assets that do very little to help their team out isn’t going to come close to get them to consider trading a way a franchise changer.  

 

You seem to understand how valuable a player like Dahlin is, Hence the reason you made a thread about going hard to get him. But then in the same instance your acting as if others teams don’t see that value and would consider moving him…… Honestly ask yourself, how much would it take for you(canucks) to consider moving the first overall pick this year? 

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20 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

This kids is mcdavid level talent but on d. Just as mcdavid is not for sale. Neither is dahlin. There’s a reason why first overall picks are a rarity to getting moved. Add in that the kid is a generational talent and you remove all hope. 

 

If canucks had the first overall pick. Would you move it?  

There are a couple of things wrong with this post.  

 

Firstly, you can't say definitively that he is on the same level as McDavid.  Even the experts - who have been throwing around the word "generational" almost every draft are somewhat reluctant to do so here and when they do they always tend to include "might be".  With McDavid, it was no question.  He oozed "generational".  Dahlin oozes awesome, but not *necessarily* generational. Part of the reason for this is that he plays in Sweden where it is challenging both logistically as well as comparatively to judge talent as easily.  The other part of the reason is because you just can't definitively predict the future.  Many would have called Yashin as generational as well.  Between difficulty adjusting to North American ice, NHL players/defense, or just attitude issues - anything can happen.

 

Next, no, obviously the Canucks wouldn't want to move the #1OA if we got it but that's because if you look across the league, we are one of the most hard-up for scoring from our blueline.  The lack of scoring from our defense is at best, borderline pathetic.  So when a team needs to fill a need as badly as we do, it's a no-brainer.  But at the same time, if we were offered an ALMOST as good player, plus a big first line power forward to play left of Pettersson, I think it would be considered.

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6 minutes ago, kloubek said:

There are a couple of things wrong with this post.  

 

Firstly, you can't say definitively that he is on the same level as McDavid.  Even the experts - who have been throwing around the word "generational" almost every draft are somewhat reluctant to do so here and when they do they always tend to include "might be".  With McDavid, it was no question. 

 

Sorry, but Have you been hiding under a rock. On TSN today the draft experts just said he’s the best D prospect to be drafted since Denis potvin.  The kid is a generational talent.

 

 

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Lets do a 3 way trade. Assume the Canucks finish 6th and won't get Boqvist either.

 

Canucks trade Tanev and our 1st round pick in 2019 (top 5 protected) to Arizona. Gudbrandson to Toronto 

Arizona trades their 1st round pick (#1OA in 2018) to Vancouver and OEL to Toronto

Toronto trades Matthews to Arizona.

 

I know its not perfect, but this addresses some issues and needs tweaking

 

--- 

We can take some bad contracts that expire in 2019 back depending on if Sedins retire.

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1 hour ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

The only way the Canucks will ever get the #1 OA as a franchise will be to bribe (a lot of) people for it, and I'm not talking about bribing other GMs.  Think: league personnel & audit firms.

 

('cuz God knows everyone's doin' it)

 

 

:ph34r:

...or we simply acquire all lotto picks.  Done!

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3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Don't bet on that, Arizona already has OEL and if they got OJ and a number of other prospects with the deal, well they are on an internal cap as well, so tons of young guys on entry level deals might work for them re-signing he current STUD.

 

Any offer would have to be overwhelming, the current NHL roster might have a couple of guys that might push a deal but what is supposed to be the end all be all of the Nucks now? The prospect pool is filled with assets, true most are unproven but that is still their value.

 

If done Pitt could win two more cups, ditto Chicago, their windows are closing and a deal could keep them open for another 4 years or more, Arizona has to show improvement and make some playoff money.

 

To get a long term player move 6 for 1, 7 for 1. If credit is given this management group for filling the cupboards in 3 years then it can be done again only with young players in place now. 

If they won the lottery, they would trade OEL before they traded the #1 overall and the ability to draft Dahlen.

 

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2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Ok I’m going to break this down for you.

 

 

Goldobin and Virtanen are two waiver picks up next year. They bring next to know value to a team like yotes, who already are loaded with better talent in their own system,  (Fisher, Dvorak, Perlini, Keller, Strome, Domi, Crouse)

Juolevi also doesn’t bring a ton of value to them as they are stacked with D on the left side.  They have Chychrun, OEL, Goligoski, and the just used there first round pick last year on Pierre-Olivier Joseph, another left handed D.

You can’t trade money in today’s game, only take on a bad contract. 

Bolland in injured indefinitely meaning they only have to pay 20% of his salary, so trading him to use saves them a 1 million.

Diepetro had a long ways to go before he has any real value.

Baertschi is 25 and hasn’t ever produces more than 35 points in season.  They already have that exact same player in Reider

 

 

You know what they coyotes franchise need.

 

A star player that brings fans to the games and a top pairing RHD. 

 

Dahlin checks off both boxes.  They laugh and hang up, and block JB’s number,  Quality over quantity, throwing a bunch of assets that do very little to help their team out isn’t going to come close to get them to consider trading a way a franchise changer.  

 

You seem to understand how valuable a player like Dahlin is, Hence the reason you made a thread about going hard to get him. But then in the same instance your acting as if others teams don’t see that value and would consider moving him…… Honestly ask yourself, how much would it take for you(canucks) to consider moving the first overall pick this year? 

Goldobin and Virtanen are two waiver picks up next year only if they start on the big team, if they start in the AHL they can be called up for injuries.

 

Fisher, Dvorak, Perlini, Keller, Strome, Domi, Crouse - most are no longer prospects as they are on, in, the NHL on the team and needing raises soon.

 

You can’t trade money in today’s game, only take on a bad contract. - Bolland for a 7th round draft pick, 5 mil/yr next year.

 

Juolevi also doesn’t bring a ton of value to them as they are stacked with D on the left side.  They have Chychrun, OEL, Goligoski, and the just used there first round pick last year on Pierre-Olivier Joseph, another left handed D. - they may be able to trade one of them then and save money or don't deal him, there are others. All the more reason they might be willing to deal the #1.

 

Money and the playoffs are the number one importance for Arizona. MONEY

 

 

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45 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

If they won the lottery, they would trade OEL before they traded the #1 overall and the ability to draft Dahlen.

 

Just a question.

 

Sure OEL would be easy to trade and they would get a lot for him but he is now considered one of their veteran players on a very young team, a leader.

 

As listed before they have quite a few top level dmen. Horvat for the #1. Cost certainty, Domi's buddy.

 

You know I post a suggestion of instead of just floating in the wind and taking it up the .....being Proactive and actually doing more than simply sitting on their arses and picking however and which ever name comes up next. My god, a new idea, well actually an old one but, draft a player and position that the team needs!

 

WHAT A CONCEPT one so alien to most posters that the only thing they can think of is, no, won't happen, can't happen, ridiculous, impossible. And then go on to extreme's of impossibility in some suggestions.

 

Everyone has a price, every team has a price. The reason the Nucks can afford to get scalped in a deal is because there is no blow back.

 

A hockey management group should be looking at other teams don't you think? Should be evaluating what those other teams might need don't you think? Working at trying to GET GOOD players rather than just waiting for them to fall out of the sky.

 

All these geniuses that can figure out ALL the reasons why something can't be done. Forsberg at least asked why would the Nucks if they had the pick, a good question.

 

Arizona was just an example of the team that has more reasons than most to want to move the pick. They are almost bankrupt again and are motivated, to improve very quickly. If they got the #1 the Nucks should/would/could be in competition for the pick if they shopped it around. No doubt this group would go for the Benning clone another little dman rather than a larger Tkachuk.

 

Try this, an see if you can make it make sense, a challenge for your IQ, your hockey knowledge. The pick belongs to Arizona and they are going to deal it, right, it is fantasy, but lets see if any of you could make a deal work for the pick within the rules of the NHL. Not something like just give them 100 mil, or move clause contracts like they don't exist.

 

TRY to be realistic. See if some could come up with an idea, stretch that hockey knowledge, show off your intelligence

 

A challenge!

 

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1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Goldobin and Virtanen are two waiver picks up next year only if they start on the big team, if they start in the AHL they can be called up for injuries.

 

Nope, that's not how waivers work unfortunately.  In order to start in the AHL they need to get sent down and clear waivers in order to do so.

 

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Fisher, Dvorak, Perlini, Keller, Strome, Domi, Crouse - most are no longer prospects as they are on, in, the NHL on the team and needing raises soon.

Only domi is due for a raise at the end year.  Every one else listed is 2 or 3 years alway.   

 

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

You can’t trade money in today’s game, only take on a bad contract. - Bolland for a 7th round draft pick, 5 mil/yr next year.

Bolland doesn't cost them any more. I already explained that to you. He's on out indefinitely and only cost them 1 million in actual dollars,.

 

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Juolevi also doesn’t bring a ton of value to them as they are stacked with D on the left side.  They have Chychrun, OEL, Goligoski, and the just used there first round pick last year on Pierre-Olivier Joseph, another left handed D. - they may be able to trade one of them then and save money or don't deal him, there are others. All the more reason they might be willing to deal the #1.

So they acquire another D, by trading the top ranked D in the last 10 years, only so that they can trade their new left side surplus away?  

 

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Money and the playoffs are the number one importance for Arizona. MONEY

Yet, you provided zero help in that situation. Meanwhile Dahlin fills their stands and sells jerseys.   

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27 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Nope, that's not how waivers work unfortunately.  In order to start in the AHL they need to get sent down and clear waivers in order to do so.

All the Nucks have to do is assign them to Utica before the end of this season, like maybe April 1. The next year they are not on the NHL team automatically, they will still be listed as being in the AHL.

29 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Only domi is due for a raise at the end year.  Every one else listed is 2 or 3 years alway. 

Okay but all that really indicates is that their prospects are already playing in the NHL and therefore not prospects any longer. One reason for that is the dire financial situation the team is in, hence why they would need money. Even the mil they spend on Bolland unless he has a miracle recovery and comes back.

 

35 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

So they acquire another D, by trading the top ranked D in the last 10 years, only so that they can trade their new left side surplus away?

? OEL is the guy they have been selling down there for 5 years, they just lost Doan. As you pointed out, they have loaded up on D now and like the Canucks they need goalies and goal scorers. I mentioned Sven because he is now getting to the age that Benning etal jettisoned the other players because they needed to close the age gap, well it is even bigger now, the gap.

 

As a point I just thought of they might not want to move Bolland because they need his cap hit to make the bottom.

 

So they might not want OJ, there are still the other forwards, maybe even Gagner and his cap hit. Unfortunately the cause contract given Sutter and Eriksson, well Eriksson's is structured so as to be untradeable for another two years maybe, there are not other big money scorers on the team, unless the Sedins decide to play down there. I guess they could always trade Dorsett.

 

I don't know if moving Horvat or any of what I would consider guys to make up the next core but I think he would do the trick.

 

IMO the team needs to find these new core players lickidy split so they can learn to play together and still maybe get something of mentoring out of the Sedins.

 

Virtanen, Granlund, Sven, Goldoblin, Cassels, a 1rst and 2 - 2nds,  they will all need raises so maybe a deal where the Nucks retain salary on two, sign and trade. Arizona gets 2 forwards at half price, a cap hit, 3 picks in the top 33 or 34, keeps all their young guys and have more to wheel and deal for other parts and 5 forwards that all at one time or another are good.

 

This is not a deal that makes the Canucks a whole lot better next year but it could open up roster spots for prospects to try. Teams have played with three lines getting the majority of ice time before. Next year bring on Petersson, Dahlen, Dahlin, Lind or Gadjovitch and maybe see what MacEwen has. It isn't like some teams haven't played up to 9 rookies at a time. It would also open up roster spots in Utica.

 

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12 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

All the Nucks have to do is assign them to Utica before the end of this season, like maybe April 1. The next year they are not on the NHL team automatically, they will still be listed as being in the AHL.

 

Nope, this is not EA sports. You need to freshen up on your understanding of how waivers works.

 

12 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Okay but all that really indicates is that their prospects are already playing in the NHL and therefore not prospects any longer. One reason for that is the dire financial situation the team is in, hence why they would need money. Even the mil they spend on Bolland unless he has a miracle recovery and comes back.

You through in more roster $'s than the million they are spending on Bolland.

 

12 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

? OEL is the guy they have been selling down there for 5 years, they just lost Doan. As you pointed out, they have loaded up on D now and like the Canucks they need goalies and goal scorers. I mentioned Sven because he is now getting to the age that Benning etal jettisoned the other players because they needed to close the age gap, well it is even bigger now, the gap.

OEL is not a super star, he doesn't bring the flash a first overall pick brings. Crosby and Ovechkin single handed kept those franchises from moving.  Had penguins not won crosby they wouldn't be in Pittsburg today.

 

 

12 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

I don't know if moving Horvat or any of what I would consider guys to make up the next core but I think he would do the trick.

 

IMO the team needs to find these new core players lickidy split so they can learn to play together and still maybe get something of mentoring out of the Sedins.

 

Sure I agree, but all teams in the NHL are looking for a franchise D like Dahlin is projected to be..  He's the type of player you do not trade.  

 

12 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Virtanen, Granlund, Sven, Goldoblin, Cassels, a 1rst and 2 - 2nds,  they will all need raises so maybe a deal where the Nucks retain salary on two, sign and trade. Arizona gets 2 forwards at half price, a cap hit, 3 picks in the top 33 or 34, keeps all their young guys and have more to wheel and deal for other parts and 5 forwards that all at one time or another are good.

Sure but throwing them a bunch of assets they have no use for doesn't do anything.  If you have a apple farm, and I show up to your place with a basket of apples trying to sell them to you, do you think they bring you any value? NO

 

 

 

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Dahlin is a good player but he is just one player. One player does not make a good team. Look at Edmonton right now.

 

Getting Dahlin would be very nice but why are you willing to ship so much to get him? This isn't even considering the huge contract he would most definitely demand and cripple the future cap of your team.

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21 minutes ago, Rounoush said:

Dahlin is a good player but he is just one player. One player does not make a good team. Look at Edmonton right now.

 

Getting Dahlin would be very nice but why are you willing to ship so much to get him? This isn't even considering the huge contract he would most definitely demand and cripple the future cap of your team.

yes he is just one player but it what it does to the rest of the team and fanbase. Edmonton is just a blip. And the one player Edmonton most needs right now is a goalie, Schenider like. a bad goalie and poof, there goes the team no matter how good they are. Maybe theirs just got burned out from all the games last year. Goalie is harder on the body.

 

For the first 8 years the contract could be managed, who else will the money go to? Gubranson?

 

The other thing is that with all of two Linden/Benning era draft picks playing in four years at least he is probably a sure thing either next year or he year after, most likely next year.

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8 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said:

I think the owners in Arizona are content to bleed money for now, as if you don't remember when they bought the team , there was a clause in it that if they lost 50 million in 3 or 4 years there was an out clause to re-locate to a better market.  I still believe they will be moving to another country soon, most likely Ottawa or Quebec area. That was the Bettman sales pitch because remember the NHL owned the team. who could forget the slanted ice each time we played them

 

Research that, they were then but now they are in deep, but then every owner has stated the same thing. Seattle will be ready almost at the perfect time. They are almost done now. Hence their urgency to be playoff bound. It is hard to find out the finances or NHL involvement with the team. The NHL loans out money through a different company. How many years was it before most found out NJ was basically another NHL owned team.

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39 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said:

But ya anyways I agree about the first rounder it will hurt but WFT we are already hurting so what the difference 

Better a sure thing and future star than another decade of hoping to find one or overpaying a 30 something 20 mi a year for 6 years. Every team needs something and if they don't then make them an offer that can't refuse and make it public, you know like that leak that disclosed Tryamkin's clause in his contract about not going down to Utica that got published and he got ostracized in the media for without management saying or doing dittley squat.

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17 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

 

 

 

This kids is mcdavid level talent but on d. Just as mcdavid is not for sale. Neither is dahlin. There’s a reason why first overall picks are a rarity to getting moved. Add in that the kid is a generational talent and you remove all hope. 

 

If canucks had the first overall pick. Would you move it?  

If the price was right sure.  Maybe to PHI, for one of their young D studs, plus half of their prospect pool.   I'd rather have Ghost/Provorov, Patrick, and two or three other grade A prospects than one Dahlin.  We've all seen what the best offensive defenseman in twenty plus years can do with some modest pieces in Karlsson, and that's the most anyone can expect from Dahlin.   Would PHI even do that trade?  

 

We'd have to give up one of Horvat or Boeser and Juolevi most likely to get a team interested....ouch.  

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22 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Virtanen, Granlund, Sven, Goldoblin, Cassels, a 1rst and 2 - 2nds,  they will all need raises so maybe a deal where the Nucks retain salary on two, sign and trade. Arizona gets 2 forwards at half price, a cap hit, 3 picks in the top 33 or 34, keeps all their young guys and have more to wheel and deal for other parts and 5 forwards that all at one time or another are good.

 

This is not a deal that makes the Canucks a whole lot better next year but it could open up roster spots for prospects to try. Teams have played with three lines getting the majority of ice time before. Next year bring on Petersson, Dahlen, Dahlin, Lind or Gadjovitch and maybe see what MacEwen has. It isn't like some teams haven't played up to 9 rookies at a time. It would also open up roster spots in Utica.

 

Roster space? You do realize you can't take on as many contracts as you want.

You've said repeatedly that money is an issue for Arizona. So why on earth are they trading their cost controlled potential star defensemen for bits and pieces? Offering up Cassels is particularly insulting. He isn't worth the $630.000 he is making. Sure that doesn't count against the cap, but the team still has to pay that.

Sven is due a raise next year. Lets conservatively say he makes 3 million next contract although it may very well be more. Granlund is due a raise next year. Let's say 2 million. Virtanen is due a raise. Something around a million is what he'll get. Goldobin is cheap for another year after this, making only $863.333

Add that up, that is roughly 7.5 Million in cash that Arizona is taking on. How does it make sense for a financially struggling franchise to trade the only thing that'll bring people to the seats for spare parts? It doesn't make sense whatsoever.

As someone else already pointed out, Crosby is what kept the Penguins in Pittsburg. With Dahlin at least Arizona has a chance of staying in Arizona

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On 2018-01-26 at 12:44 PM, TheGuardian_ said:

 

 

Horvat, Boeser, Demko, Petersson and Tryamkin. The future #1/2 line and Tryamkin with Dahlin and the goalie. That could happen within one at the most 2 years.

 

 

You will not get the player you seem to be after without trading one or more of those bolded above.   Not sure why you put Tryamkin in that list as he has only shown so far that he is a marginal NHL player with potential but far from a certainty in the world's best league.   

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