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Kinder Morgan Pipeline Talk


kingofsurrey

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19 minutes ago, MikeBossy said:

Totally understand their frustration - I spent the past year in Winnipeg - just moved back to Edmonton and I could not believe the length of the rail cars that were carrying oil. Might just be me but I'd rather transport grain by rail car than oil as most rail tracks go thru cities and along rivers and other environmentally sensitive areas. I guess my big issue with pipelines is much like it is in BC with raw log exports - makes more sense to refine the product then export it as there are decent wages attached to the refinery of the oil.

There is no appetite for providing capital to build new refineries anywhere in Canada. The Sturgeon refinery is the only one to be built in Canada in the past 30 years and it is just starting operations. Costs are at $9.7 billion and still going up. This facility would never have been built without funding and loan guarantees from the Alberta government.

The Energy East pipeline was supposed to get oil to the existing Irving Oil refinery in St, John, New Brunswick.......the largest refinery in the country. Unfortunately, we would rather import oil from Saudi Arabia (by ship) than use Canadian oil (by pipeline).

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35 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Been to California quite a few times. I love that state. Way ahead of the curve.

Feel free to move there, I don't want them in any form for the same reasons I don't want Alaska.

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29 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

The Energy East pipeline was supposed to get oil to the existing Irving Oil refinery in St, John, New Brunswick.......the largest refinery in the country.

would that be the pipeline that Trudeau didn't push through because of politics?

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1 hour ago, MikeBossy said:

I understand the pro pipeline stance in Sask and Alberta as it is an economic driver  (especially in Alberta) but what I think a lot of people in these provinces don't understand is the risk it poses to the west coast environmentally as well as the fact its offers nothing economically to BC for such risk. 

 

Great article I read a few weeks ago here:

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-sustainable-way-forward-for-canadas-energy-sector/

 

 

Everyone out side of the lower mainland and the island in this province supports it as well. The mining, logging and oil towns across the Province are in support  of this about 90% from what my personal experience is. 

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1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

Look now for protestors  on the Kinder site  to really explode in numbers.....

 

image.jpeg.a4bc48b4ad5510962431fe0f60c1f163.jpeg

Ironically, the protesters will (likely) be unemployed, and they will be protesting against a project that will provide a lot of jobs, perhaps even for them.

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2 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

This is exactly the response I gather JT was hoping for. "Oh well, I guess if he robbed me and my children's bank account to pay for this mega-project that is highly risky to fishery, tourism, not to mention the environment of the the west coast of our country, and still highly opposed in the aboriginal and other dedicated coastal environment protector communities.......might as well just build the damn thing."

 

JT has just flushed not only this money, but all the future money that will be spent in courts, for both pro and con. Now you, and everyone else, will be saddled with a 4.5 + money pit.

You enjoy being played the fool?  This will be the end of JT's political career.

 

If even KM thought it too much risk, I don't know how any conservative minded person can be happy with the government taking it over with their tax dollars. I like how cons yell and scream about spending a few million on providing services to people that can't afford them, but shrug when BILLIONS are dished out to provide a red carpet, an oil soaked red carpet, to foreign oil industries and pipeline co's. With still no adequate clean up plan.  Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought that capitalism was about private enterprise doing it with their own investments and if the risks are greater than the rewards, it will have to wait,  not government propping it up with taxpayers dollars just because they can.

The Conservatives under Scheer don't support the taking over of Kinder Morgan with tax dollars.

 

https://globalnews.ca/video/4239218/ottawas-purchase-of-kinder-morgan-has-failed-bc-andrew-scheer

 

Scheer called it "Nationalizing KInder Morgan".   While we are at it, why don't we nationalize the entire oil and gas industry.

 

While a lot of people support the KM project, the majority of them certainly don't want tax money to go to it.   Now, we got $4.7 Billion added to the deficit.

 

 

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2 hours ago, ronthecivil said:

On account of it's land.

The value of the land and right of way and the terminal can be argued in both directions until everyone is blue in the face. What do you suppose fair value is?

 

The feds can overrule the constitution if they want, though they have never done so.

 

The feds of course do NOT control the courts, but the most likely scenario is the courts simply ask the feds to be clear on the rules.

 

The lawyers will have a field day on this, and you can find ones that agree with anyone on any side of the debabe. But in the end the feds will win, because they always do.

 

believe what you will

trump has special powers, .. presidential executive powers

which do not exist in canada..

and he was not able to do down south what he wanted

so i doubt your view will in fact prevail in reality

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On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 1:59 PM, BabychStache said:

Worst possible outcome. 

The entire thing has been bungled by all of three of the "leaders" involved. 

Sigh, this country is on a wayward course to oblivion and irrelevance. 

 

 

Indeed.

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16 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I think it's time to edit the thread title @kingofsurrey

probably eh?

 

You have to admit, the irony of PETs son nationalizing a pipeline for Alberta because two NDP governments are in conflict isn't something anyone saw coming. Under the watch of the federal Liberals and NDP, BC is going to get Site C, a pipeline and an LNG plant. Its just bizarre. 

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On 5/29/2018 at 1:59 PM, BabychStache said:

Worst possible outcome. 

The entire thing has been bungled by all of three of the "leaders" involved. 

Sigh, this country is on a wayward course to oblivion and irrelevance. 

But its the new reality barring a SCoC decision but that is likely too far off to prevent construction. 

 

So the best thing now imo is to try to hold Trudeau to account on his safety promises. I'm still not ever voting CPC but man i wish there was a useful federal alternative. 

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Biggest mistake in Liberal Party history...?  

 

This will be a summer of  watching  the news clips of all the seniors, children and first nations supporters this summer... being handcuffed /arrested...

The world will be watching how Canada  / JT has abandoned first nations reconciliation......

 

 

 

Most British Columbians felt uneasy about their tax dollars being spent on the Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion even before the federal government announced this week that it would buy the project outright for $4.5 billion, according to a new poll.

Research Co. surveyed 1,255 adults in B.C. between May 25 to 28 and found that 76 per cent of respondents agreed with the statement “I am uncomfortable with the idea of the federal government using taxpayer money to subsidize a foreign company if the project does not go through.”

 

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/poll-federal-liberals-losing-support-in-b-c-over-past-kinder-morgan-pipeline-decisions

 

Edited by kingofsurrey
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Keep a few things in mind.

 

Some people here and across BC and Alberta (Canada) were swearing this needs to be built no matter what

 

Total cost of purchase $4.5 billion for a 50+ year old pipeline

Total cost to build is $7+ billion

Total cost of court cases and lawyers is unknown but could total millions

 

KM bought this pipeline almost 20 years ago for $500 million

 

When you guys swore this needed to be built, when you said no matter what, it's for the best.

 

Did ya REALLY think you were gonna get what you wanted and that you'd be this upset over it?

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39 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Keep a few things in mind.

 

Some people here and across BC and Alberta (Canada) were swearing this needs to be built no matter what

 

Total cost of purchase $4.5 billion for a 50+ year old pipeline

Total cost to build is $7+ billion

Total cost of court cases and lawyers is unknown but could total millions

 

KM bought this pipeline almost 20 years ago for $500 million

 

When you guys swore this needed to be built, when you said no matter what, it's for the best.

 

Did ya REALLY think you were gonna get what you wanted and that you'd be this upset over it?

It's unfortunate it had to come to this but I suppose this is the only way the government figured they could get it built.

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