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Kinder Morgan Pipeline Talk


kingofsurrey

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On 2018-05-29 at 12:50 PM, Alflives said:

Ironically, the protesters will (likely) be unemployed, and they will be protesting against a project that will provide a lot of jobs, perhaps even for them.

There was a study done which came to the conclusion that for every one protester on the front lines, there were about a thousand that felt the same way but couldn't or didn't make it to the protest.  I have a job, I can't make it down in the middle of the day to travel to Burnaby Mountain, but I appreciate those there to represent me.  I don't care if they are unemployed youth, grandparents, or aboriginals, or whatever. Despite the laughable right wing myth, there are no paid protesters. They all are there because of their convictions to make that effort to get out there. Maybe even risk arrest which could possibly affect their future.

 

And good luck on the 100 or so actual permanent jobs that will come out of the pipelline once the temporary construction jobs are gone.

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19 minutes ago, kilgore said:

There was a study done which came to the conclusion that for every one protester on the front lines, there were about a thousand that felt the same way but couldn't or didn't make it to the protest.  I have a job, I can't make it down in the middle of the day to travel to Burnaby Mountain, but I appreciate those there to represent me.  I don't care if they are unemployed youth, grandparents, or aboriginals, or whatever. Despite the laughable right wing myth, there are no paid protesters. They all are there because of their convictions to make that effort to get out there. Maybe even risk arrest which could possibly affect their future.

 

And good luck on the 100 or so actual permanent jobs that will come out of the pipelline once the temporary construction jobs are gone.

Haha despite the ones that openly admitted they were paid to show up and protest. Now that’s laughable. 

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15 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Haha despite the ones that openly admitted they were paid to show up and protest. Now that’s laughable. 

Links?

 

And even if there are organizations, usually non-profit, or political like the Greens, working to stop this environmental stupidity, and have the budget to pay a few people for research and lobbying, that is not anywhere near the the fantasy that any descernable percent of the protesters are being paid.  Implying of course that they don't really feel that strongly about protecting our waters and industries. You honestly think that those that protest this are only doing it for money?  Not that you think they are misguided, or wrong, or idiots, but that its the almighty dollar that is motivating them?  Really?

There's no limit to the fantasies of the Texas Oil companies defenders. How about this whopper:

 

http://www.news1130.com/2018/05/26/pipeline-supporters-langley-kinder-morgan-deadline/

 

Dean Swanberg also works in the oil and gas industry and says environmental concerns are unfounded. “We load 50 million barrels of oil a day, everyday, around the world without incident.”

An anti-pipeline protest in Burnaby back in March attracted thousands of people but Swanberg believes they were paid “By American oil companies that are trying to stop it cause they don’t want us to have any other customers.”

 

lol

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7 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Links?

 

And even if there are organizations, usually non-profit, or political like the Greens, working to stop this environmental stupidity, and have the budget to pay a few people for research and lobbying, that is not anywhere near the the fantasy that any descernable percent of the protesters are being paid.  Implying of course that they don't really feel that strongly about protecting our waters and industries. You honestly think that those that protest this are only doing it for money? 

 

 

Where did I say that? I didn’t imply anything just pointed out that you’re wrong. As you’re the one that claimed there are no paid protestors which is inherently false. Just because they are paid doesn’t mean they don’t feel strongly about it. Sure it is a misguided and uninformed feeling they have but nevertheless. 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Where did I say that? I didn’t imply anything just pointed out that you’re wrong. As you’re the one that claimed there are no paid protestors which is inherently false. Just because they are paid doesn’t mean they don’t feel strongly about it. Sure it is a misguided and uninformed feeling they have but nevertheless. 

 

 

 

I still don't see any links to stories where protesters admit they are being paid to protest, in any organized way.  So no, sorry, you haven't proved me wrong yet.  If you listen to CKNW/Global News all day sure you'll hear this fake talking point repeated over and over. But that is not make it 'inherently' true in the least.  It is made to make those defending foreign oil companies over the environment in their own back yards feel somehow justified.  I've been to a few protests, I guess I missed seeing the punch out box, dammit!

 

And hearing people are being paid to protest, and believing that, would definitely cloud some people's opinions on just how dedicated any protester is to the cause they are standing up for or against.

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16 minutes ago, kilgore said:

I still don't see any links to stories where protesters admit they are being paid to protest, in any organized way.  So no, sorry, you haven't proved me wrong yet.  If you listen to CKNW/Global News all day sure you'll hear this fake talking point repeated over and over. But that is not make it 'inherently' true in the least.  It is made to make those defending foreign oil companies over the environment in their own back yards feel somehow justified.  I've been to a few protests, I guess I missed seeing the punch out box, dammit!

 

And hearing people are being paid to protest, and believing that, would definitely cloud some people's opinions on just how dedicated any protester is to the cause they are standing up for or against.

Well since I’m on mobile I can’t post any links but dogwood comes to mind of openly admitting to paying staff to protest. But of course you already knew that which is why your position has changed from “no protestors are paid” to creating a strawman about them still being emotionally involved about it. 

 

Im glad people stand up no matter what it’s for. It’s there right to do so. But it’s also extremely naive to ignore the handouts given in order to push a different agenda. I mean you can easily follow the money trail of a group like tides foundation. covering your ears and closing your eyes, pretending it doesn’t exist is very closed minded. It’s happening whether you chose to believe it or not. 

 

It doesnt mean all people are paid, I’m sure 99% of them aren't. I don’t watch the news so I could really care less what they are saying. 

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1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Well since I’m on mobile I can’t post any links but dogwood comes to mind of openly admitting to paying staff to protest. But of course you already knew that which is why your position has changed from “no protestors are paid” to creating a strawman. 

 

Im glad people stand up no matter what it’s for. It’s there right to do so. But it’s also extremely naive to ignore the handouts given in order to push a different agenda. I mean you can easily follow the money trail of a group like tides foundation. covering your ears and closing your eyes, pretending it doesn’t exist is very closed minded. 

But you are equating the Dogwood organization hiring a student to do research work, with all KM protesters, in general, to being paid. Its misleading and disingenuous. This is a position offered by the Summer Jobs Program under Harper as well. God bless him.  According to Dogwood "The funding goes toward paying a university student who spends the summer doing outreach work on campaigns to stop oil tanker expansion on the B.C. coast, he said."  https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/04/26/canada-summer-jobs-trans-mountain-dogwood_a_23420958/

 

Now compare that to the slush fund they are fighting against. And the political power. And the corporate media. Follow the money?  The billions that the US oil companies have at their disposal to run ads, use their corporate media friends like Global/CKNW, pay off politicians with large campaign donations, that does not even remotely compare. That one can even use that one Dogwood example, (even including Greenpeace and the Sierra Club, Suzuki foundation etc..) to cry 'unfair!' is laughable. 

 

Again, there is no organized payout scheme for average Canadians to stand up and protest for what they believe.  Go on arguing that we are just naive, against 'progress', that it will be ultimately better for our economy, I'll gladly argue those points, but I'm not going to argue with fake news.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Mackcanuck said:

So Canada buys a leaky, 65 year old pipeline and an aging tank farm that is so old that none of it is earthquake resistant to which both are at the end of their life span for $4.5B when Kinder Morgan themselves valued the pipeline at $550 M in 2007.

That $4.5B  was just for the existing pipeline, some new pipe and the small number of  legal hurdles that have been addressed still leaving many hundreds of hurdles yet to overcome.

There are estimates of it costing taxpayers up to $20B by the time it is completed, if it ever will be.

Kinder Morgan owned us on this deal

"Sorry"

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1 minute ago, kilgore said:

But you are equating the Dogwood organization hiring a student to do research work, with all KM protesters, in general, to being paid. Its misleading and disingenuous. This is a position offered by the Summer Jobs Program under Harper as well. God bless him.  According to Dogwood "The funding goes toward paying a university student who spends the summer doing outreach work on campaigns to stop oil tanker expansion on the B.C. coast, he said."  https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/04/26/canada-summer-jobs-trans-mountain-dogwood_a_23420958/

 

Which included.... Protesting shocking a person was getting a wage while supporting the protest.  Aka line sinker right there. 

 

1 minute ago, kilgore said:

Now compare that to the slush fund they are fighting against. And the political power. And the corporate media. Follow the money?  The billions that the US oil companies have at their disposal to run ads, use their corporate media friends like Global/CKNW, pay off politicians with large campaign donations, that does not even remotely compare. That one can even use that one Dogwood example, (even including Greenpeace and the Sierra Club, Suzuki foundation etc..) to cry 'unfair!' is laughable. 

 

Unfair?  You just proved your own statement wrong. Yes laughable. But here you are pathetically trying to turn it into more rather thank simply waving the white flag. I could care less if its fair or what ever else you want to call it. I never cried about anything just pointed out that the statement you made no WRONG and here you are turning it into a strawman. Well i have no interest in joining your little bait and switch. 

 

1 minute ago, kilgore said:

Again, there is no organized payout scheme for average Canadians to stand up and protest for what they believe.  Go on arguing that we are just naive, against 'progress', that it will be ultimately better for our economy, I'll gladly argue those points, but I'm not going to argue with fake news.

 

 

Haha the type of exponse I expected. Pure strawman making up stupid statement i have not stated. Somehow this has turning in to you calling out your fake news into you saying it means I’m implying all average candain is a paid protestor. You had a hidden agenda the whole time and didn’t really care about the statement you made. You were just waiting to spring board it into this nonsense your spouting now. Again I have no interest in playing the strawman game. Just a waste of everyone’s time. Just like those poor uninformed protesters 

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On 5/29/2018 at 1:50 PM, Alflives said:

Ironically, the protesters will (likely) be unemployed, and they will be protesting against a project that will provide a lot of jobs, perhaps even for them.

But they don’t want a job......

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18 minutes ago, Mackcanuck said:

So Canada buys a leaky, 65 year old pipeline and an aging tank farm that is so old that none of it is earthquake resistant to which both are at the end of their life span for $4.5B when Kinder Morgan themselves valued the pipeline at $550 M in 2007.

That $4.5B  was just for the existing pipeline, some new pipe and the small number of  legal hurdles that have been addressed still leaving many hundreds of hurdles yet to overcome.

There are estimates of it costing taxpayers up to $20B by the time it is completed, if it ever will be.

Kinder Morgan owned us on this deal

I wonder how many upgraders and refineries along with the 10's of thousands of jobs could be built in Canada for $20B

many.

 

When I heard that KM was willing to sell outright, thats when I got worried. You don't sell a cash cow unless 1. the milk is going to run dry, or 2. someone pays you two cows in return. 

 

I think Trudeau managed to do both, buy dangerously old infrastructure and pay double for it. 

 

 

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