Man Katy Perry Kissed On 'American Idol' Says He Didn't Like It

[Dral]

6 minutes ago, mpt said:

Ironic that women can sexually assault men and get away with it

according to some, it wasn't just sexual assault... it was rape... or rather, would be rape if it was a creepy old guy doing it to a young woman...

[Monty]

25 minutes ago, mpt said:

Ironic that women can sexually assault men and get away with it

Been thinking on this “issue” with Katy Perry, and it really isn’t anything for people to get up in arms about. Why? In the same way (though not extent) why Aziz Ansari was not a big deal either.

 

This guy was on a television show where he was invited by Perry to come closer so she could give him a kiss. At that point, he’s a willing participant. The fact that he didn’t take into consideration of the possibility (and likelihood) that she would end up kissing him on the lips (see: entertainment show) is on him.

 

I’m not saying there isn’t a double standard in play here. However, an invited cheek kiss that turned into on the lips on a “reality” tv show, is not sexual assault.

 

That said, Katy Perry is nonsense to begin with, as is American Idol.

[Dral]

13 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Ah, there it is. Got to get them mouthy women folk to quite down, right?

 

Actually, here's a fantastic reason to be worried about them mouthy women folk.... if you're actually a hard working industrious woman who wants to get ahead in the business world...

 

Quote

‘Me too’ backlash has women worried about losing career opportunities

By Erica Alini National Online Journalist, Money/Consumer  Global News

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News: Interacting with a woman at work post-#MeToox

 

WATCH ABOVE: Interacting with a woman at work post – #MeToo

 

A A

 

The past few months have been quite eventful for women’s rights, at least in the Western Hemisphere. It was only October when The New York Times published its exposé of now-disgraced Hollywood magnate Harvey Weinstein and the #MeToo hashtag went viral on Twitter. Since then, thousands of women have shared their stories of sexual assault and harassment in the workplace.

All of a sudden, it seemed, the march toward equality had made a huge leap forward.

READ MORE: TIME names ‘The Silence Breakers,’ voices behind #MeToo movement, as its Person of the Year

In the corporate world, there are already warnings that we may be sliding back. Facebook chief operating officer and best-selling Lean In author Sheryl Sandberg worried in December that male executives and other men in leadership roles might react to #MeToo by avoiding one-on-one time with female colleagues and underlings out of fear of sexual harassment allegations.

“Four years ago, I wrote in Lean In that 64 per cent of senior male managers were afraid to be alone with a female colleague, in part because of fears of being accused of sexual harassment. The problem with this is that mentoring almost always occurs in one-on-one settings,” Sandberg wrote in a long Facebook post.

“The percentage of men who will be afraid to be alone with a female colleague has to be sky high right now,” she added.

A month later, a poll conducted by Sandberg’s LeanIn.Org foundation and SurveyMonkey confirmed the Facebook executive’s worry. Thirty per cent of male managers surveyed said they are uncomfortable working alone with female colleagues, over twice the percentage who said so in the past. Meanwhile, the number of male managers who have concerns about mentoring women more than tripled, from 5 per cent to 16 per cent. All this, despite the fact that nearly half of both men and women said they were not surprised by the recent headlines about sexual harassment and a quarter believe that’s only the tip of the iceberg, according to the same survey.

READ MORE: Why you’re seeing ‘me too’ all over your social media feeds

Similar worries are arising in Canada. Lori McIntosh, founder and CEO of Toronto-based Vim and Vixin, which helps place women in executive positions, is increasingly hearing from female clients who worry they will no longer be able to get alone time with their boss to showcase their work.

“I’ve had this conversation at least four times today already,” McIntosh said, speaking to Global News by phone on Tuesday.

WATCH: Why legal experts say #MeToo is more than just a movement

From #MeToo to the Pence Principle

Indeed, McIntosh, whose firms works globally and does most of its business in the U.S. and Canada, says she has experienced the #MeToo backlash herself.

“Some men will not meet alone with me,” she said, recalling a recent incident in which she said the CEO of a billion-dollar company specifically alluded to #MeToo after requesting that a third party be present at what was to be a one-on-one meeting.

READ MORE: Nest-egg inequality: Why women need to save more for retirement

“It’s the first time in 21 years that’s happened to me,” said McIntosh.

That attitude has also garnered a popular moniker. It’s known as the “Pence Principle” or “Pence Rule,” in a nod to U.S. Vice-President Mike Pence, who reportedly avoids dining alone or attending events where alcohol is served, without his wife Karen at his side.

“CEOs are very concerned about some of the stories circulating inside their organizations and how to continue to run their business,” said McIntosh. But shutting out women is not the answer, she added.

It may not seem like much, but male executives refusing to remain alone with female colleagues could make a big difference because that’s when, often, mentoring relationships are formed.

In corporate settings, she says, change tends to come from above. Male leaders need to help women climb the corporate ladder, as they have been for decades with junior male colleagues.

WATCH: Oscar embraces #MeToo  and #TimesUp movements

It’s about men and women working together, stupid

Male concerns about accusations of sexual harassment in the workplace didn’t start with #MeToo, and the movement has prompted a lot of soul-searching at both the individual and corporate levels, said Chi Nguyen, CEO of Toronto-based Parker P Consulting, which helps multinationals, non-governmental organizations and higher education institutions promote gender equality in the workplace.

The onslaught of reports about sexual harassment has many men asking themselves “what is my complacency and what more can I do to stop this from happening,” Nguyen said.

Employers, meanwhile, are taking a hard look at their gender equality policies. Here in Canada, the Liberal government’s most recent budget hinted that a pay equity law could be coming.

READ MORE: Liberals introduce new paternity leave, plan for pay-equity law

France is also saying “non” to the gender pay gap by asking larger companies to use payroll software to spot and address unexplained differences in compensation between men and women.

READ MORE: Ontario government to bring in ‘pay transparency’ bill aimed at closing gender wage gap

That’s all well and good, says Nguyen, but policies and rules need to go hand-in-hand with efforts to change the corporate culture.

This isn’t about picking the token woman to sit on the corporate board or excluding men from mentoring programs, she says. It’s about executives and managers making sure they’re searching both gender pools when fishing for top talent.

It’s about creating parental leave and flexible schedules and making sure that men are equally expected to take advantage of those workplace perks.

And it’s about both men and women trying to understand each other’s perspectives and challenges, Nguyen adds.

She recalls the example of a CEO at a resource extraction company who decided to shadow an employee who was a working mom. He noticed the stares she would get from colleagues when leaving at 4 p.m. for “the dinner shift,” even though she would come to work at 7 a.m. and often log more hours from the home computer after supper, Nguyen recalled.

But female executives should mentor and shadow their male underlings, too, she added. “It’s a two-way street.”

#MeToo “is making people stop and think about their behaviours on a daily basis,” McIntosh said.

Ultimately, though, “men and women have to work together to make the change.”

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4068700/me-too-backlash-pence-rule-mentoring-canada/

 

 

[Dral]

4 minutes ago, Monty said:

Been thinking on this “issue” with Katy Perry, and it really isn’t anything for people to get up in arms about. Why? In the same way (though not extent) why Aziz Ansari was not a big deal either.

 

This guy was on a television who where he was invited by Perry to come closer so she could give him a kiss. At that point, he’s a willing participant. The fact that he didn’t take into consideration of the possibility (and likelihood) that she would end up kissing him on the lips (see: entertainment show) is on him.

 

I’m not saying there isn’t a double standard in play here. However, an invited cheek kiss that turned into on the lips on a “reality” tv show, is not sexual assault.

 

That said, Katy Perry is nonsense to begin with, as is American Idol.

I totally agree with everything you've said...

 

except a lot of people did think the Aziz thing actually was a big deal...

 

And when Matt Damon said a few months ago:

Quote

"There's a difference between, you know, patting someone on the butt and rape or child molestation, right? he said. "Both of those behaviors need to be confronted and eradicated without question, but they shouldn't be conflated, right?"

and got into trouble for saying it... 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

5 minutes ago, Monty said:

Been thinking on this “issue” with Katy Perry, and it really isn’t anything for people to get up in arms about. Why? In the same way (though not extent) why Aziz Ansari was not a big deal either.

 

This guy was on a television who where he was invited by Perry to come closer so she could give him a kiss. At that point, he’s a willing participant. The fact that he didn’t take into consideration of the possibility (and likelihood) that she would end up kissing him on the lips (see: entertainment show) is on him.

 

I’m not saying there isn’t a double standard in play here. However, an invited cheek kiss that turned into on the lips on a “reality” tv show, is not sexual assault.

 

That said, Katy Perry is nonsense to begin with, as is American Idol.

I disagree with that. It’s different than aziz who the girl participantly engaged in and had control over the situation. Aziz didn’t forcefully do anything. To me this is consenting to one thing, thinking you have control but then be forced against your will to do another. Obviously not to the same extent but it would be like a girl consenting to have normal sex with a guy and then him shoving it in her back door against her will. Which is 100% rape. 

[Monty]

6 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I disagree with that. It’s different than aziz who the girl participantly engaged in and had control over the situation. Aziz didn’t forcefully do anything. To me this is consenting to one thing, thinking you have control but then be forced against your will to do another. Obviously not to the same extent but it would be like a girl consenting to have normal sex with a guy and then him shoving it in her back door against her will. Which is 100% rape. 

You’re allowed to disagree. As am I.

 

I feel as though being on a television show where you’re invited to walk on your own accord 20 feet to receive a kiss is harmless when he actively participated by receiving the invitation, walking himself there, leaned forward, and then he kissed her first. And then got invited back a second time.

 

I’m one person, and I don’t find anything wrong here. But there’s 7 billion+ people in the world, and we’re all entitled to our own opinions.

[Alflives]

9 hours ago, samurai said:

cherry picking here.  arbitrarily choosing what you think is moral or amoral.    Another problematic point is assuming that all males in all situations are physically stronger than women - this is just not the case.   Of course saying that physically stronger people have to behave differently is not something that stands up well.  In other words your position has got a lot of holes in it.   

I don't know what the statistics are, but I think it's a pretty good guess that women are by far taken advantage of by men than men are by women.  

 

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I disagree with that. It’s different than aziz who the girl participantly engaged in and had control over the situation. Aziz didn’t forcefully do anything. To me this is consenting to one thing, thinking you have control but then be forced against your will to do another. Obviously not to the same extent but it would be like a girl consenting to have normal sex with a guy and then him shoving it in her back door against her will. Which is 100% rape. 

I don't agree FTG.  The concept (I think you're presenting?) is that of "force".  Men are bigger, stronger, and more intimidating (to women) than the other way around.  If the sexes were reversed, there is always the belief the man could "force" the girl into going further.  In this case, there is not the belief Miss Perry could force this guy into going further.  

Men and women are different.  Sure there are outliers, but in the vast majority of circumstances the man would be much stronger, aggressive, and intimidating than the girl.

[Sean Monahan]

I’d still drag my balls over twenty feet of broken glass just to hear her fart through a walkie talkie. 

[Tortorella's Rant]

Just keep your &^@#ing hands to yourself, end of discussion. There, was that so hard? And if a man compliments that you look nice today, get off your high horse thinking it's sexual assault and he wants to rape you - I see a lot of that floating about too.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

8 minutes ago, Monty said:

You’re allowed to disagree. As am I.

 

I feel as though being on a television show where you’re invited to walk on your own accord 20 feet to receive a kiss is harmless when he actively participated by receiving the invitation, walking himself there, leaned forward, and then he kissed her first. And then got invited back a second time.

 

Sure but didn’t he not confirm before it happened. “On the cheek”.  What he consented to and what happend are different.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I don't agree FTG.  The concept (I think you're presenting?) is that of "force".  Men are bigger, stronger, and more intimidating (to women) than the other way around.  If the sexes were reversed, there is always the belief the man could "force" the girl into going further.  In this case, there is not the belief Miss Perry could force this guy into going further.  

Men and women are different.  Sure there are outliers, but in the vast majority of circumstances the man would be much stronger, aggressive, and intimidating than the girl.

It’s not about forcing it to go further it’s about consenting to one thing and something else happens unwillfully. If someone goes accepts a hug and gets a butt grab that’s not consent. 

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

It’s not about forcing it to go further it’s about consenting to one thing and something else happens unwillfully. If someone goes accepts a hug and gets a butt grab that’s not consent. 

With this concept I certainly agree.  Miss Perry should have left the kiss on the cheek as enough, rather than tricking the boy into a kiss on the lips. My belief that men and women are the same, under these circumstances, is where I differ.  Men are stronger, more aggressive, and more intimidating.  There is the belief the man could "force" a woman into further things than a kiss.  With Miss Perry (as with mostly every women) there is not the belief she could force the man into more than he's will to allow.  

What Miss Perry did went too far, but to compare this to the potential of what a man could do to a woman is just not even in the same ballpark. 

[SabreFan1]

1 hour ago, Monty said:

Been thinking on this “issue” with Katy Perry, and it really isn’t anything for people to get up in arms about. Why? In the same way (though not extent) why Aziz Ansari was not a big deal either.

The point with some people is that if the genders were reversed, loads of feminists would be crawling out of the woodwork crying things like "sexual assault" and demanding that the male judge lose his job.  I was reading an article the other day where one feminist who is the head of some organization in California is working to get certain kinds of looks from men towards women classified as "sexual harassment".  So basically if some dude is trying to squeeze out a silent one at work and gets a funny constipated look on his face that's misinterpreted by a female co-worker as something more than it is, the guy could be terminated from his place of employment.

 

The reality is that the 20-year old virgin got kissed.  He'll get over it.  No matter what he's saying publicly now, sooner or later he'll brag about it to people.  I don't think anybody is actually upset for the guy.

[Monty]

8 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

The point with some people is that if the genders were reversed, loads of feminists would be crawling out of the woodwork crying things like "sexual assault" and demanding that the male judge lose his job.  I was reading an article the other day where one feminist who is the head of some organization in California is working to get certain kinds of looks from men towards women classified as "sexual harassment".  So basically if some dude is trying to squeeze out a silent one at work and gets a funny constipated look on his face that's misinterpreted by a female co-worker as something more than it is, the guy could be terminated from his place of employment.

 

The reality is that the 20-year old virgin got kissed.  He'll get over it.  No matter what he's saying publicly now, sooner or later he'll brag about it to people.  I don't think anybody is actually upset for the guy.

Which is why in my same post I said the following:

 

1 hour ago, Monty said:

I’m not saying there isn’t a double standard in play here.

 

[SabreFan1]

8 minutes ago, Monty said:

Which is why in my same post I said the following:

Fair enough.  It's just a subject that is seriously starting to wear on me. 

 

There are too many feminists out there not just looking for gender equality, but for gender-based advantages.  At least in the USA, the backlash will eventually come.  My guess is that it will eventually hit women the hardest in the workplace. 

 

If I were the CEO of a large company, I'd at the very least install cameras anywhere that men and women work together.  I'd also make a policy that no mixed gender private meetings are to be held without at least one extra person in the room.

[Gurn]

9 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

Fair enough.  It's just a subject that is seriously starting to wear on me. 

 

There are too many feminists out there not just looking for gender equality, but for gender-based advantages.  At least in the USA, the backlash will eventually come.  My guess is that it will eventually hit women the hardest in the workplace. 

 

If I were the CEO of a large company, I'd at the very least install cameras anywhere that men and women work together.  I'd also make a policy that no mixed gender private meetings are to be held without at least one extra person in the room.

Unfortunately, you have forgotten the potential of male on male and female on female sexual harassment, so there is a gap in your proposed company policy. Perhaps tweaking the policy so that no les than three people, of whatever sex, are to be in meetings?

[Dral]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I don't know what the statistics are, but I think it's a pretty good guess that women are by far taken advantage of by men than men are by women.  

 

I think you're going to have to be very specific when you say "taken advantage of"... you make that definition too broad and it becomes pretty debatable

[SabreFan1]

13 minutes ago, gurn said:

Unfortunately, you have forgotten the potential of male on male and female on female sexual harassment, so there is a gap in your proposed company policy. Perhaps tweaking the policy so that no les than three people, of whatever sex, are to be in meetings?

You forget that I live in the USA.  As a CEO, I would worry much less about same sex harassment because all you would need is one homophobic person on the jury and there's no way you'd lose.  In the US, we have plenty of homophobic people so chances are I'd get multiple people on the jury who would find in my favour.

[SabreFan1]

1 hour ago, Sean Monahan said:

I’d still drag my balls over twenty feet of broken glass just to hear her fart through a walkie talkie. 

Not me.  I didn't like that look when Miley Cyrus did it and I like it even less on Katy Perry.  In my opinion, most women look better with long hair.