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vannuck59

(Proposal) All in this Draft

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13 hours ago, vannuck59 said:

Okay I think this draft is going to be the best draft since 2003

Saying that I think JB should be all in.

Trade #1,  To the Islanders - Gudbranson, Baertschi, Markstrom

                  To Van.- First rounder # 11 pick

Trade  #2,  To the Rangers - Tanev, Grandland

                   To Van. First rounder # 9 pick

Trade # 3,   To Detroit - Gaudette

                     To Van - First rounder # 6 pick

Trade # 4     To Edmonton - Sutter, Goldobin, Brisebois, retain 2 mil on Sutter

                     To Van - Russell, First rounder  # 10 pick

 Trade # 5    To Montreal - Hutton, Pouliot Vans 2019 3rd pick 

                     To Van. - Canadians 2nd pick # 35, 3rd pick # 66

 Trade # 6     To Buffalo - Russell, retain 1 mil cap , Vans 3rd 2018 and Vans. 2019 2nd pick

                       To Van. - Buffalo's  2nd round pick # 32

Sigh free agents -C. Folin - 3.5 mil x 3, G. Pateryn - 3.5 x 2, J. Moore - 4 mil x 3, Reilly Nash - 3.5 mil x 2, J Beagle - 3.5 x 2

Sign RAs    - Bouchard 1.5 mil x 2, Labate 1 mil x 2, Archabald 1 mil x 2, Chaput, Stecher 3 mil x 2, Virtanen 2.5 mil x 2

 

Draft -  First Round -  Kotkaniemi , Tkachuk, Bouchard, Veleno, Dobson, in no order

             Second Round - McBain, Samuelsson, Skarec ( goalie )

After that, best player with the rest of the draft picks.

Retool rebuild or what ever done.

First year fill in with free agents until the kids are ready short term deals .

 

I couldn't make it past Grandland.

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6 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

I couldn't make it past Grandland.

Well I guess your a little squeamish about miss-spelled words or names , LOL a lot of people seem a fended by thinking out of the box trying to win . Even if only one of the 6 trades happens it would make our team better. Some astute individuals even think that drafting that many players would be bad for the team. Name one team that it hurt! The goal of this team is to win the Stanley Cup not to be mediocre playoff team. Most great teams are built with high end draft picks over years of sucking. My idea because of the deep draft is to get as many picks in the 6 to 12 range as possible. I would like to win in the next 3 to 5 years, I have been waiting for 40. So if your offended move on if not help out tweak the trades be a positive fan not negative.

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16 hours ago, coastal.view said:

wow when you simplify life a whole whole bunch

it seems pretty simple ?

 

when you accept life is complex and hard

then you hire a real gm to sort through all the minutia

and attempt to do one or 2 deals in a busy month

and they are thorny and difficult to accomplish and close

 

but everything is possible online i guess

for certain posters who come to these boards anyway

(and what is it you are on anyway ? :wub:)

Anything is possible you do one deal than move on , if no one reached or dreamed you would be living in the stone age using primitive tools. Those who mock ideas think small and are small. 

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Okay I see I got great reviews:huh:

Well I am going to soldier on and see the end results of all those trades. in 3 years and adding existing prospects and players

 

Tkachuk      -    Horvat      -      Beoser 

Dahlen   -      Kotkaniemi  -     Pettersson

Liepsic      -       Veleno     -     Virtanen 

Gadjovich  -   MacEwen   -      Lind

Palmu        -    McBain       -      Jasek

 

  Juolevi            -       E.  Bouchard

Samuelsson      -      N. Dobson

McEneny           -      Chatfield

Sautner             -       Brassard 

 

       Demko   -   DiPietro

 

Tkachuk , Kotkaniemi, Veleno, E.  Bouchard, N. Dobson all these players will be on some level of entry deals, still we will draft at least one of these players this year

 

Samuelsson and McBain  are second rounders' we may draft one of these players. 

 

Edited just now by vannuck59
spelling

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Two warning signs on a proposal.

 

- Use the terms: All In. 

- Blockbuster.

 

 

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  23 hours ago, vannuck59 said:

 

A revised, revise from Jan

 

So....my version of these trades

 

 

#1............To the Islanders.....Granlund 50% + MDZ 50%                        If the Islander are re-signing Tavares this strengthens their team

                 To Van...................2018 42nd + 2018 43rd                              at minimum cost              

 

#5.............To Montreal.......... Baertschi + Hutton + 2019 3rd                 This trade just hurries the rebuild and we honestly give up a lot for a 

                 To Van...................35th OA + 66th OA                                     small up grade

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Trade #1  

 

1st off, this trade is predicated on Tavares re-signing with the Islanders, who will want to make sure they have a replacement for 

either DeHaan or Hickey leaving as a UFA (or Both) MDZ is a parallel signing for either of those 2, but at 50% MDZ is a deal, and gives them 

financial flexibility.

 

Granlund would have to be a re-sign and trade (2 years @ $2,000,000 per at 50%), his contract value would be more, but his down year

pushed it down, but his positional flexibility, his along with his offensive ability, and his defensive awareness, gives Granlund a great 

reputation around the league, and one that would work on the NYI's.

 

Vancouver gets 2 second round picks that will work well for their future..................

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Trade #5

 

With an abundance of 2nd round picks, Montreal looks at Baertschi as a 2/3 LWer and who is young enough to be there for a few years.

Montreal also looks at Hutton's potential upside and the 2019 3rd, and feels it is worth the risk (there is none) Vancouver is over paying

on the Hutton part of the deal, but is getting good value on the 2nd.

 

Vancouver  gets picks and buys a year on development of their 2019 3rd, it might also have to take cap retention on another re-sign and

trade deal on Baertschi.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Small trades that have Vancouver taking on short term cap retention, which will not kill them, and allows the other teams, maximum flexibility

with their own cap issues. 

 

The parts traded are replaceable, and are becoming redundant, as the Canucks rebuild.....it is a process!

 

 

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Two warning signs on a proposal.

 

- Use the terms: All In. 

- Blockbuster.

 

 

And then there's the multiple trade packages...

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21 hours ago, higgyfan said:

And then there's the multiple trade packages...

People fear what they don't know

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On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 6:33 AM, vannuck59 said:

Okay I see I got great reviews:huh:

Well I am going to soldier on and see the end results of all those trades. in 3 years and adding existing prospects and players

 

Tkachuk      -    Horvat      -      Beoser 

Dahlen   -      Kotkaniemi  -     Pettersson

Liepsic      -       Veleno     -     Virtanen 

Gadjovich  -   MacEwen   -      Lind

Palmu        -    McBain       -      Jasek

 

  Juolevi            -       E.  Bouchard

Samuelsson      -      N. Dobson

McEneny           -      Chatfield

Sautner             -       Brassard 

 

       Demko   -   DiPietro

 

Tkachuk , Kotkaniemi, Veleno, E.  Bouchard, N. Dobson all these players will be on some level of entry deals, still we will draft at least one of these players this year

 

Samuelsson and McBain  are second rounders' we may draft one of these players. 

 

Edited just now by vannuck59
spelling

Come on people where is your vision. If you could see into the future at the 2003 draft would you not have went all in. what are you afraid of.

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On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 5:23 PM, Solinar said:

Indeed, but we've seen for years what happens when you have a bright shining light, but no supporting cast...  I just hope that we manage to stay the course, and draft wisely for the next few years.  And get a little lucky....which is...Un Canucklike.

The NYR have an interesting approach, because they have so many extra draft picks they look at this year as being worth two/three years of drafting/rebuilding/re-tooling due to the number of 1rst round picks, similar as to what Boston did after trading for extra 1rst rounder's. That they have accelerated the time needed.

 

It is revealing that many forum members attach, in my mind, too much expectations upon the team's prospects but are hesitant when the entire hockey world agree on two or three players as being very special and almost guaranteed winning picks. One this team has never had was the "stud" dman, the team has come close by having an extraordinary defensive depth in the past, but not "the man". In every cup loss the opposition has had "a guy" on defense that dominated, the Nucks have had a super star forward in Bure with Linden, The Sedins with Kesler and in 82 Brodeur almost played good enough to win the Vezina in the playoffs, although that was a huge trap, clutch and grab team that likely was the model for the later NJ teams. But the Nucks never had dominating dman.

 

Look how Karlsson elevated the Sens and they will not have Pettersson, Horvat or Dahlen plus a pick from this year and next. The Canucks will get a good dman this draft but trying to win the cup by committee hasn't worked for 5 decades and three cup appearances, so lets try something that most cup winners do, get a stud dman and if the cost is a scoring winger, which can be done by committee, so be it, give it a shot, it will be almost a win, win deal for Buffalo and the Canucks.

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3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

The NYR have an interesting approach, because they have so many extra draft picks they look at this year as being worth two/three years of drafting/rebuilding/re-tooling due to the number of 1rst round picks, similar as to what Boston did after trading for extra 1rst rounder's. That they have accelerated the time needed.

 

It is revealing that many forum members attach, in my mind, too much expectations upon the team's prospects but are hesitant when the entire hockey world agree on two or three players as being very special and almost guaranteed winning picks. One this team has never had was the "stud" dman, the team has come close by having an extraordinary defensive depth in the past, but not "the man". In every cup loss the opposition has had "a guy" on defense that dominated, the Nucks have had a super star forward in Bure with Linden, The Sedins with Kesler and in 82 Brodeur almost played good enough to win the Vezina in the playoffs, although that was a huge trap, clutch and grab team that likely was the model for the later NJ teams. But the Nucks never had dominating dman.

 

Look how Karlsson elevated the Sens and they will not have Pettersson, Horvat or Dahlen plus a pick from this year and next. The Canucks will get a good dman this draft but trying to win the cup by committee hasn't worked for 5 decades and three cup appearances, so lets try something that most cup winners do, get a stud dman and if the cost is a scoring winger, which can be done by committee, so be it, give it a shot, it will be almost a win, win deal for Buffalo and the Canucks.

I would like to say this to the Rangers model...They had some really good pieces acquired before they announced their intentions, plus some solid prospects in the system.  They also have a world class goaltender that glosses over some definite roster weaknesses in the short term.  But they won't be competing legitimately for a few years unless they have a stroke of luck.  Getting a whole bunch of picks this year does help, but only if you manage to hit on the picks you make.  There is every chance that you could whiff on the swing as well.  More picks helps average it out, but sometimes your luck runs out at the table at the worst opportune time.

   And we shall see how many of those picks they use.  I can see a lot of wheeling and dealing done using those picks if they want to shore up some spots.

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On 2018-06-02 at 1:45 PM, N7Nucks said:

Values seem to be all over the place. I am not big on Markstrom, but he's a good backup. Baer is a solid middle 6 guy, and Gudbranson can play top 4 and play well. So that seems like an overpayment for the 11th overall. Then you have Gaudette for the 6th overall straight up. Like, what?

Gaudette isn't going to get us much, maybe a second rounder like we paid for Vey given he's an unproven commodity.  Pretty silly  post.  Trade away half the team for picks what's left right?  I want picks too, but don't want to send the team into an abyss while we wait for a few of these juniors to make the show.  I agree that Markstrom is at least a capable back-up, he played very well to close the season so there's still hope for more too.   In a perfect world Demko will make the team and steal the number one role, he's on other teams radar so perhaps we could make a deal with CAR for their first rounder...but then we don't have Demko.  

 

Benning just needs to carry on, our drafting and development is a strength so I understand more picks would help, but we still have to ice an NHL team.   OP is seriously overrating this draft, it's better than last year but not even close to as good as 2016, or 2015 for that matter.  Dahlin is a slam dunk franchise player, but only he is, the rest are gambles with various degrees of upside.  No McDavid/Eichel/Mathews/Laine going on.   My bet is this will be a better than average draft, not great, not bad, definitely not a year to rip a team in half just to draft Bouchard/Dobson and one of Farabee Wilde or if we are lucky Ty Smtih... some of those guys are not going to pan out.

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3 hours ago, Solinar said:

I would like to say this to the Rangers model...They had some really good pieces acquired before they announced their intentions, plus some solid prospects in the system.  They also have a world class goaltender that glosses over some definite roster weaknesses in the short term.  But they won't be competing legitimately for a few years unless they have a stroke of luck.  Getting a whole bunch of picks this year does help, but only if you manage to hit on the picks you make.  There is every chance that you could whiff on the swing as well.  More picks helps average it out, but sometimes your luck runs out at the table at the worst opportune time.

   And we shall see how many of those picks they use.  I can see a lot of wheeling and dealing done using those picks if they want to shore up some spots.

The Rangers model the last decade is to try and win around world class goaltending and all around but not great offence and defense.  Kudos for them recognizing that their window was all but closed and tearing it down to the bone like TO did a few years ago to start rebuilding with a whack of picks in a decent draft.  It's doubtful they will rebound so quickly like TO did, but in three years time whatever they can get from this years draft  will either be playing or a bust.  They don't have a good pool, but are at least planning for Lundqvist because they are deep  in goalies.   In some ways they are similar to where we were when Benning took over, the cliff was coming up and they decided to take action and make the best parachute they could with the moves they made.  

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6 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

The NYR have an interesting approach, because they have so many extra draft picks they look at this year as being worth two/three years of drafting/rebuilding/re-tooling due to the number of 1rst round picks, similar as to what Boston did after trading for extra 1rst rounder's. That they have accelerated the time needed.

 

It is revealing that many forum members attach, in my mind, too much expectations upon the team's prospects but are hesitant when the entire hockey world agree on two or three players as being very special and almost guaranteed winning picks. One this team has never had was the "stud" dman, the team has come close by having an extraordinary defensive depth in the past, but not "the man". In every cup loss the opposition has had "a guy" on defense that dominated, the Nucks have had a super star forward in Bure with Linden, The Sedins with Kesler and in 82 Brodeur almost played good enough to win the Vezina in the playoffs, although that was a huge trap, clutch and grab team that likely was the model for the later NJ teams. But the Nucks never had dominating dman.

 

Look how Karlsson elevated the Sens and they will not have Pettersson, Horvat or Dahlen plus a pick from this year and next. The Canucks will get a good dman this draft but trying to win the cup by committee hasn't worked for 5 decades and three cup appearances, so lets try something that most cup winners do, get a stud dman and if the cost is a scoring winger, which can be done by committee, so be it, give it a shot, it will be almost a win, win deal for Buffalo and the Canucks.

Let's not forget that last year the Pens won with, gulp, Schultz as their best D-man, something this team has surpassed in many times (Ohlund, Jovonoski, Lidster, Babych, Lumme, Reinhart etc etc on par with maybr Aucoin).  

 

Theres more than one way to win the cup, I agree that the vast majority of winners have at least a very good number one if not a sometimes Norris candidate caliber guy ( a quick scan through the winners and I must admit it's hard to find any team that didn't have a great defenseman, PHI and Roys second and third cup maybe but they won on goaltending (Parent) and all round awesomeness (COL first cup) which is even a bigger trump card.  Maybe Dallas but I guess they had Zubov right?  

 

I get get what your saying, it's awfully hard to win without at least a top fifteen number one defenseman, but you can still win it all with elite goaltending or two top centers and a well balanced team.   If somehow MAF beats WSH this year, we can add him to a very small list of guys that won primarily on goaltending (Drydens first cup, Parent to a lesser degree, and Roys second cup).  

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20 hours ago, IBatch said:

Gaudette isn't going to get us much, maybe a second rounder like we paid for Vey given he's an unproven commodity.  Pretty silly  post.  Trade away half the team for picks what's left right?  I want picks too, but don't want to send the team into an abyss while we wait for a few of these juniors to make the show.  I agree that Markstrom is at least a capable back-up, he played very well to close the season so there's still hope for more too.   In a perfect world Demko will make the team and steal the number one role, he's on other teams radar so perhaps we could make a deal with CAR for their first rounder...but then we don't have Demko.  

 

Benning just needs to carry on, our drafting and development is a strength so I understand more picks would help, but we still have to ice an NHL team.   OP is seriously overrating this draft, it's better than last year but not even close to as good as 2016, or 2015 for that matter.  Dahlin is a slam dunk franchise player, but only he is, the rest are gambles with various degrees of upside.  No McDavid/Eichel/Mathews/Laine going on.   My bet is this will be a better than average draft, not great, not bad, definitely not a year to rip a team in half just to draft Bouchard/Dobson and one of Farabee Wilde or if we are lucky Ty Smtih... some of those guys are not going to pan out.

 

17 hours ago, IBatch said:

Let's not forget that last year the Pens won with, gulp, Schultz as their best D-man, something this team has surpassed in many times (Ohlund, Jovonoski, Lidster, Babych, Lumme, Reinhart etc etc on par with maybr Aucoin).  

 

Theres more than one way to win the cup, I agree that the vast majority of winners have at least a very good number one if not a sometimes Norris candidate caliber guy ( a quick scan through the winners and I must admit it's hard to find any team that didn't have a great defenseman, PHI and Roys second and third cup maybe but they won on goaltending (Parent) and all round awesomeness (COL first cup) which is even a bigger trump card.  Maybe Dallas but I guess they had Zubov right?  

 

I get get what your saying, it's awfully hard to win without at least a top fifteen number one defenseman, but you can still win it all with elite goaltending or two top centers and a well balanced team.   If somehow MAF beats WSH this year, we can add him to a very small list of guys that won primarily on goaltending (Drydens first cup, Parent to a lesser degree, and Roys second cup).  

I understand the idea of the team not going into the abyss but don't you consider that they are there now? Maybe no so far behind in the standings in a single season, but if looking at the standings the same way as the re-whatever has been going, then this team is in the abyss over a 3 year period, much further behind than others, especially if those funky loser/OT points are removed, so why not one bad year where there are more the one player to watch for more than 15 min per game. One really bad year with mega picks and the team is set up for a decade, again with some astute and daring trades.

 

Scary thoughts concerning the rumour mill, which I hope are just rumours, it is sounding like there is a deadline to make the playoffs or attendance number and/or financial return.

 

Some posters expressed concern hearing about what may have been offered for Hanifin (OJ's replacement) and now O'Rielly rumours. These types of players are not traded for to rebuild, they are traded for to try to make the playoffs, sure they are just rumours but smoke, fire? Too much talk about Canucks trading for secondary parts period. Tanev and Gaudette for O'Rielly? Really? Why not go for the first then and add two more players, atleast the team does get the "stud".

 

Yes Pitt won the cup without a super star dman, they do have Letang but having two super stars and a third star player (Kessel) keeps the other team preoccupied with keeping them off the board.

 

Colorado did have 6 time Norris nominee Ozolinsh with the guy the Nucks could have traded for, Sakic and Forsberg. Roy didn't hurt.

 

Not arguing just the team needs or can use a "stud" dman. Fans are still not flocking to see JUST Boeser or Horvat or ?, but with all the hype surrounding the #1 overall would load up the seats, and he would be playing almost 1/3 of the game.

 

Really wondering about those rumours, sounds like changing the "plan", these guys haven't made a trade that mattered/impactful in 4 years, why now? Benning does have only a two year contract, plus option and how much longer is Linden's deal, another 3 years?

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27 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

I understand the idea of the team not going into the abyss but don't you consider that they are there now? Maybe no so far behind in the standings in a single season, but if looking at the standings the same way as the re-whatever has been going, then this team is in the abyss over a 3 year period, much further behind than others, especially if those funky loser/OT points are removed, so why not one bad year where there are more the one player to watch for more than 15 min per game. One really bad year with mega picks and the team is set up for a decade, again with some astute and daring trades.

 

Scary thoughts concerning the rumour mill, which I hope are just rumours, it is sounding like there is a deadline to make the playoffs or attendance number and/or financial return.

 

Some posters expressed concern hearing about what may have been offered for Hanifin (OJ's replacement) and now O'Rielly rumours. These types of players are not traded for to rebuild, they are traded for to try to make the playoffs, sure they are just rumours but smoke, fire? Too much talk about Canucks trading for secondary parts period. Tanev and Gaudette for O'Rielly? Really? Why not go for the first then and add two more players, atleast the team does get the "stud".

 

Yes Pitt won the cup without a super star dman, they do have Letang but having two super stars and a third star player (Kessel) keeps the other team preoccupied with keeping them off the board.

 

Colorado did have 6 time Norris nominee Ozolinsh with the guy the Nucks could have traded for, Sakic and Forsberg. Roy didn't hurt.

 

Not arguing just the team needs or can use a "stud" dman. Fans are still not flocking to see JUST Boeser or Horvat or ?, but with all the hype surrounding the #1 overall would load up the seats, and he would be playing almost 1/3 of the game.

 

Really wondering about those rumours, sounds like changing the "plan", these guys haven't made a trade that mattered/impactful in 4 years, why now? Benning does have only a two year contract, plus option and how much longer is Linden's deal, another 3 years?

I wouldn't worry about the rumours to much,  Friedman was taking a shot in the dark and others picked it up and ran with it as usual.   We are going to continue to pick high for the next couple years too so those guys we need should get drafted.  It doesn't always work out having a pile of picks either, at least that's what has happened to some teams over the past two decades, thankfully Benning seems to be at least an above average drafter which should help our cause.

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4 hours ago, IBatch said:

I wouldn't worry about the rumours to much,  Friedman was taking a shot in the dark and others picked it up and ran with it as usual.   We are going to continue to pick high for the next couple years too so those guys we need should get drafted.  It doesn't always work out having a pile of picks either, at least that's what has happened to some teams over the past two decades, thankfully Benning seems to be at least an above average drafter which should help our cause.

You are probably correct, but I wonder how much trying to replace 150 pts out of the line up will dictate their decisions. That does give me concern because they didn't have a transition plan evident. Also I am not sure how much more rope they have with regards to being almost DFL for the last three years. Certainly the Sedins were supposed to be mentors for the top line and other players but there really isn't any except Boeser maybe, Sven, Granlund, Sutter, Gudbranson, Gagner and most of the team aren't the guys in the future. That was the age group Benning/Linden jettisoned when first hired in favour of older players.

 

Those teams that had loads of picks, ya, I am thinking that the Canucks may be going the same route, it is nice to have veterans but it nice if those veterans have been on winning teams and apart from very few players on the team, most have not played more than one winning season. It is great that the vets can help the players stay steady but those same players aren't exactly lynch pins of success. Most of them were support players on teams they have played for before.

 

Edmonton's 10 year joke was also broken up with an appearance in the playoffs, the Canucks would now be in year six with the team being the worst team in the league over the last three years barring loser/OT points. Getting Oilish.

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1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

You are probably correct, but I wonder how much trying to replace 150 pts out of the line up will dictate their decisions. That does give me concern because they didn't have a transition plan evident. Also I am not sure how much more rope they have with regards to being almost DFL for the last three years. Certainly the Sedins were supposed to be mentors for the top line and other players but there really isn't any except Boeser maybe, Sven, Granlund, Sutter, Gudbranson, Gagner and most of the team aren't the guys in the future. That was the age group Benning/Linden jettisoned when first hired in favour of older players.

 

Those teams that had loads of picks, ya, I am thinking that the Canucks may be going the same route, it is nice to have veterans but it nice if those veterans have been on winning teams and apart from very few players on the team, most have not played more than one winning season. It is great that the vets can help the players stay steady but those same players aren't exactly lynch pins of success. Most of them were support players on teams they have played for before.

 

Edmonton's 10 year joke was also broken up with an appearance in the playoffs, the Canucks would now be in year six with the team being the worst team in the league over the last three years barring loser/OT points. Getting Oilish.

 

They were a playoff team from 2008-2014, but for the one season when Torts was the coach, which  many considered an anomaly; possibly even the management staff. The following season the team had 101pts in the regular season and the twins were still putting up almost a ppg.

 

Just because a team loses in round 1 of the playoffs, doesn't mean it should be stripped down and rebuilt.

 

I suspect the majority on this board would say that the rebuild started in the 2015/16 season.  That would be Canucks are going into their 3rd year of rebuild actually.  That was when it became clear that the team could not keep up with the rest of the league. 

 

Regardless, how can you compare the Canucks rebuild to the Oilers, who had 9 top 10 draft picks (4 that were 1st overall) in the past 9 years?  Oh yeah, and here they are getting another top 10 this year.  LOL

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