Noble 6 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 6 hours ago, aGENT said: Because we never have injuries? I'd say there's FAR more certainty someone is hurt coming out of camp and opening a spot than Beagle having a 'terrible camp' (honestly your stretching there, why not ask me if Horvat has a terrible camp? ). And if both those guys want a spot on the healthy version of that starting roster, out play one of the other guys. It's that simple. If they can't, I'm unclear what you're concern is exactly? Also not sure why you feel Gaudette needs to start at C. Just like Pettersson, he could start on W. Or he could very well be C'ing Baer and Pettersson in a sheltered offensive role. I'm not saying we're not going to have to move guys (waive or trade). I've been arguing for months with Surfer on here that VERY soon, guys WILL be moved. It's just not the emergency you're making it out to be. My concern isn't losing players on waivers, it's not being able to put all of our young players in the best possible situation to develop. Goldobin and Leipsic need offensive minutes in the NHL to show what they can do. Gaudette would likely benefit more from playing "easy" minutes in the bottom 6 (the Horvat route) in the NHL rather than in Utica. Pettersson is the top priority to get offensive minutes. Virtanen should be allowed to grow his game in a variety of situations. All of that simply isn't possible for this year. What I meant by the Beagle question was that even if Beagle (or someone similar contract/age wise) did get outplayed by Gaudette or any other young player, they wouldn't get sent down. You're having Gaudette compete against someone who can't lose. That's not competition. It might not be Beagle specifically, he was just an example. Do you seriously think the team will waive Baertschi if Goldobin and Leipsic outplay him? I think Gaudette should be developed as a center first and foremost. I'd rather him play that position in Utica rather than wing in the NHL. It's not an emergency that can be solved by making one move out of camp. 6 hours ago, Guile said: I agree with your arguments, and think Gaudette is most likely to start in Utica for all the reasons you've mentioned. Assuming he does force himself onto the team, I also agree with JR that somebody will have to be traded or waived and that loss is just a fact of having more capable bodies than spots. Leipsic and Goldobin could both likely fetch a later round pick, even at this busy time of the year, and if not we risk waivers. If they go, unfortunately they go and we lose quality depth and promise, but by definition it's because someone better took their spot. There is also the possibility of Schaller still needing recovery time after his off-season surgery (hand/wrist?), so that may temporarily buy us an extra slot and time for someone to get injured, morbid as that is. And no, though I fully get the point you're making, Beagle would be trusted to recover from a few poor games in the pre-season, consummate veteran, leader, and gym maniac that he is. Leipsic and Goldobin shouldn't be the ones leaving. What's the point of having the youth movement if your going to get rid of some of your young players? If Beagle can be trusted to recover from a poor camp, how is it possible for him to lose that spot to Gaudette? I thought we were supposed to cut the weak links and keep the best players? Again, that's not competition. I thought Schaller might be on IR too, but this article says that he should be ready for camp http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/canucks-continue-to-add-grit-in-free-agency-signing-tim-schaller-1.23354727 "Schaller also has a hand injury sustained at the end of last season that required surgery. It’s expected to keep him out for three months, meaning he should be available at the start of training camp, but it could affect his off-season training." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: Because we're also not going to run with a roster of 21 players that are largely rookies or all under the age of 25, especially ones whose hallmark is offense not defensive or shutdown play. The rationale has been explained many times over. Gaudette is a two-way center who could play in the bottom-6, but there's not room for him. He could've followed the Horvat route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Horvat is a Boss said: My concern isn't losing players on waivers, it's not being able to put all of our young players in the best possible situation to develop. Goldobin and Leipsic need offensive minutes in the NHL to show what they can do. Gaudette would likely benefit more from playing "easy" minutes in the bottom 6 (the Horvat route) in the NHL rather than in Utica. Pettersson is the top priority to get offensive minutes. Virtanen should be allowed to grow his game in a variety of situations. All of that simply isn't possible for this year. What I meant by the Beagle question was that even if Beagle (or someone similar contract/age wise) did get outplayed by Gaudette or any other young player, they wouldn't get sent down. You're having Gaudette compete against someone who can't lose. That's not competition. It might not be Beagle specifically, he was just an example. Do you seriously think the team will waive Baertschi if Goldobin and Leipsic outplay him? I think Gaudette should be developed as a center first and foremost. I'd rather him play that position in Utica rather than wing in the NHL. It's not an emergency that can be solved by making one move out of camp. Leipsic and Goldobin shouldn't be the ones leaving. What's the point of having the youth movement if your going to get rid of some of your young players? If Beagle can be trusted to recover from a poor camp, how is it possible for him to lose that spot to Gaudette? I thought we were supposed to cut the weak links and keep the best players? Again, that's not competition. I thought Schaller might be on IR too, but this article says that he should be ready for camp http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/canucks-continue-to-add-grit-in-free-agency-signing-tim-schaller-1.23354727 "Schaller also has a hand injury sustained at the end of last season that required surgery. It’s expected to keep him out for three months, meaning he should be available at the start of training camp, but it could affect his off-season training." To be frank, Leipsic and Goldobin are past the point of 'best situation to develop'. It's put up or shut up time for both. Are they good enough to be NHL'ers, or not? Easy bottom 6 minutes?! I don't think you're paying attention to how they're structuring the team. Sutter and Beagle's lines are going to be playing the hardest minutes on the team (PK/dzone/match up). They're going to be creating the easy minutes that Pettersson and to a lesser extent, Horvat's lines are going to enjoy. Assuming Gaudette doesn't earn a spot on one of those two offensive lines, he'd quite arguably be far better off spending part/all of the season playing top 6 minutes/situations in Utica in an offensive role. Again, management doesn't view him as a 4th liner. We don't have a prospect with Beagle's skill set/role. Precisely (one of many) the reason he was targeted and signed. No, I think they'd trade Baer as he has actual trade value. I've been saying for probably a year plus that he's gone as soon as someone better replaces him. Whether that's Goldy, Dahlen etc...we'lll find out soon enough. He's not going to be part of the 'next core'. If Leip/Goldy can't beat out the likes of Gagner/Granlund etc for a job or Gaudette or Dahlen leap frogs them...why the hell shouldn't they be waived? It's not exactly a tall bar to clear. Put up or shut up time. What's the point of rebuilding if you fill it with sucky AHL tweeners who can't cut it and didn't earn their spots? Edited July 27, 2018 by aGENT 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchincanucks Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: Gaudette is a two-way center who could play in the bottom-6, but there's not room for him. He could've followed the Horvat route. Thank you Horvat someone else around here is actually making sense. Agree with everything you said last couple posts except Leipsic can play in bottom 6 having done so already in Vegas on a team known for rolling four lines very effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchincanucks Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Gaudette is a perfect candidate for 3rd line centre. Is known for being a great two way player. His offensive game is good not great. Is tenacious on the puck, speed skill and some physicality to his game. Not going to supplant Horvat or Pettersson in top 6 offensively, but is probably a bit more advanced in defensive game than Pettersson is currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) I think these threads need to be renamed: Elias Pettersson Thread > William Nylander vs. Jake Virtanen Thread Nikita Tryamkin Thread > Willy Dejardins Appreciation Thread Quinn Hughes Thread > Canuck Opening Night Lineup Thread Anywho, Horvat, Sutter, Gaudette, Beagle, should be the opening night centres. Gaudette makes this team out of camp. So any news if QH is turning pro? Today was the day Benning was going to meet with his agent advisor. This really shouldn't drag on any further, I feel if their is that much debate then just go back to NCAA for another year, it wouldn't hurt. Edited July 27, 2018 by Tre Mac 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchincanucks Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Hard to talk about Hughes without talking trade first, just no room right now. Hope he makes the team, would be way more exciting to watch Canucks this year. Has skills the Canucks have never had on back end. Sure hope Green doesn’t coach the skill element out of his game. Stetcher showed some real promise offensively when he first made the Canucks. Looked dangerous rookie year, making moves at the line, guess it made the coaches nervous cause have seen it less and less since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 34 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: Goldobin and Leipsic need offensive minutes in the NHL to show what they can do. Gaudette would likely benefit more from playing "easy" minutes in the bottom 6 (the Horvat route) in the NHL rather than in Utica. Pettersson is the top priority to get offensive minutes. Virtanen should be allowed to grow his game in a variety of situations. All of that simply isn't possible for this year. OK, going to dissect this. Goldy and Leipsic have been given offensive minutes and have shown flashes but neither of them are NHL locks at this stage but no vet signed this summer stands in their way - if anything, they are competing with one another (and Canucks having real competition is a nice change. Gaudette will benefit more playing limited minutes in NHL versus development front line minutes in AHL? Will just say I am very happy you are not in charge of player development for any team I have interest in. EP will get his minutes IF he makes the team. He will NOT be on the 4th line or penalty killing - however, those signings may save his assets from harm. Virtanen has been allowed just that and look at the progress last year. NO ONE signed this year will get in Jake's way. I know some are susceptible to whiny media types but rise above that and instead of creating false narratives, listen and believe in your coach and GM who say if a young player outperforms a vet, the vet is gone. Simple, powerful message. Listen to it and until you see something different, why not trust it? Last year, there was not a single young player held back - in fact, some players were thrown in beyond their ability to cope due to lack of depth. Depth has been addressed to a degree sufficient that a safe development environment with sufficient competition now exists. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Watchincanucks said: Hard to talk about Hughes without talking trade first Why? If Hughes makes the team and some veteran is the casualty, you can talk trade/cut/waive or whatever you want at that time. It isn't hard at all to talk about this exciting young player as there IS room for him - IF he is ready. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 35 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: Gaudette is a two-way center who could play in the bottom-6, but there's not room for him. He could've followed the Horvat route. So you are essentially calling Green and Benning liars? Why remain the fan of a team that you cannot believe their coach or GM? Why do you choose to not believe them? They could not have been clearer about the fact that if ANY young player outplays a vet, poof the vet will be replaced with that youth. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchincanucks Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: OK, going to dissect this. Goldy and Leipsic have been given offensive minutes and have shown flashes but neither of them are NHL locks at this stage but no vet signed this summer stands in their way - if anything, they are competing with one another (and Canucks having real competition is a nice change. Gaudette will benefit more playing limited minutes in NHL versus development front line minutes in AHL? Will just say I am very happy you are not in charge of player development for any team I have interest in. EP will get his minutes IF he makes the team. He will NOT be on the 4th line or penalty killing - however, those signings may save his assets from harm. Virtanen has been allowed just that and look at the progress last year. NO ONE signed this year will get in Jake's way. I know some are susceptible to whiny media types but rise above that and instead of creating false narratives, listen and believe in your coach and GM who say if a young player outperforms a vet, the vet is gone. Simple, powerful message. Listen to it and until you see something different, why not trust it? Last year, there was not a single young player held back - in fact, some players were thrown in beyond their ability to cope due to lack of depth. Depth has been addressed to a degree sufficient that a safe development environment with sufficient competition now exists. Flip side to your argument is listen to Linden, a guy who was hired to lead this team. He clearly did not like the direction and could no longer be associated with this team. Aquilini is the one making these decisions, do you really trust him? Linden quit for a reason and that reason was the owner, you don’t quit because of subordinates. I trust Linden, a player who made the team at 18, been there done that experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guile Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 32 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: My concern isn't losing players on waivers, it's not being able to put all of our young players in the best possible situation to develop. Goldobin and Leipsic need offensive minutes in the NHL to show what they can do. Gaudette would likely benefit more from playing "easy" minutes in the bottom 6 (the Horvat route) in the NHL rather than in Utica. Pettersson is the top priority to get offensive minutes. Virtanen should be allowed to grow his game in a variety of situations. All of that simply isn't possible for this year. What I meant by the Beagle question was that even if Beagle (or someone similar contract/age wise) did get outplayed by Gaudette or any other young player, they wouldn't get sent down. You're having Gaudette compete against someone who can't lose. That's not competition. It might not be Beagle specifically, he was just an example. Do you seriously think the team will waive Baertschi if Goldobin and Leipsic outplay him? I think Gaudette should be developed as a center first and foremost. I'd rather him play that position in Utica rather than wing in the NHL. It's not an emergency that can be solved by making one move out of camp. Leipsic and Goldobin shouldn't be the ones leaving. What's the point of having the youth movement if your going to get rid of some of your young players? If Beagle can be trusted to recover from a poor camp, how is it possible for him to lose that spot to Gaudette? I thought we were supposed to cut the weak links and keep the best players? Again, that's not competition. I thought Schaller might be on IR too, but this article says that he should be ready for camp http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/canucks-continue-to-add-grit-in-free-agency-signing-tim-schaller-1.23354727 "Schaller also has a hand injury sustained at the end of last season that required surgery. It’s expected to keep him out for three months, meaning he should be available at the start of training camp, but it could affect his off-season training." You're right that Gaudette should play as a center, regardless of which team. It may be that management/Green foresee/want/need Gaudette starting in Utica regardless of his and others' performance in training camp. Not exactly fair, nor does it foster the competition you want, but it may be another Stecher situation that certainly won't hurt Adam in the slightest. Signing Beagle really opened up a lot of options for the next couple seasons, and it bought both Gaudette and Pettersson time to falter and develop with few consequences (should it happen). Sutter is around for three more years, Beagle four, and obviously Horvat is 1C if/until he's surpassed by EP at C. Gaudette should complete the set of 4 guys who are permanently 100% centres all the time; EP, as has been discussed thoroughly, may not be that ever (unlikely) or for some stretch of time. However, assuming (within 1-2 years) Horvat/Pettersson/Gaudette develop sufficiently to be our top 3 centres, legitimately capable of producing at those levels, Beagle locking down the 4C spot, it gives us 5 NHL quality centremen on the roster. Sutter could play with EP on wing at certain times, could get spot duty on face-offs, could be traded, etc. For the start of this next season, though, I think it likely that Gaudette starts a Comet until injuries hit for exactly the reason you mentioned: He should play centre, and there likely isn't a way to fit him in without needlessly loosing another young player with promise in Goldy/Leipsic. Sutter and Beagle take the defensive matchups, Horvat + another centre take the offensive matchups with that +1 centre playing against a third-line quality of competition. Like JR, I think that will either be EP or Gagner, even though Adam could likely fill that spot just fine and develop successfully. However, being in Utica for 1/2 to a full season (being first in line for C call-ups) won't do him any harm, and it allows us to retain more of our young talent. Thank you for the news on Schaller! That's both great to hear and slightly unfortunate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Watchincanucks said: Flip side to your argument is listen to Linden, a guy who was hired to lead this team. He clearly did not like the direction and could no longer be associated with this team. Aquilini is the one making these decisions, do you really trust him? Linden quit for a reason and that reason was the owner, you don’t quit because of subordinates. I trust Linden, a player who made the team at 18, been there done that experience. So perhaps Linden was let go because he was holding the young guys back. More than just rumour had Linden pushing for Hughes to go back to college, for but one example, versus of just letting him try and make the team. I have seen zero evidence of Aquilini deciding on who plays and who does not play - no one does as none exists. Green is one of the most up front guys in all of hockey. You are saying he is now a liar. Benning comes across as a pretty "on your sleeve" guy if you watch the draft videos - even his tampering comments shows he has few filters. You now labeling him a liar too. Choose what you like but apparently instead of listening to two people, you are calling them liars and then inventing a narrative that has zero evidence. Cool stuff dude. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guile Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Watchincanucks said: Gaudette is a perfect candidate for 3rd line centre. Is known for being a great two way player. His offensive game is good not great. Is tenacious on the puck, speed skill and some physicality to his game. Not going to supplant Horvat or Pettersson in top 6 offensively, but is probably a bit more advanced in defensive game than Pettersson is currently. Exactly, I fully agree; I just happen to think that he'll make it there in a season or two, not this October with how many bodies are in front of him. Edit: Admittedly, a line of Roussel-Gaudette-Sutter (latter two interchangeable positionally, Gaudette can play C for weaker opposition matchups and take a percentage of face-offs) could work, but this would again push Leipsic or Goldy off the team. Not the worst scenario, but avoidable. Edited July 27, 2018 by Guile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 33 minutes ago, Watchincanucks said: Gaudette is a perfect candidate for 3rd line centre. Is known for being a great two way player. His offensive game is good not great. Is tenacious on the puck, speed skill and some physicality to his game. Not going to supplant Horvat or Pettersson in top 6 offensively, but is probably a bit more advanced in defensive game than Pettersson is currently. If he earns it, great. Sutter or Beagle can play wing. Problem solved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 17 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said: I agree that management see's Pettersson as a center, but that doesn't mean it has to be as soon as next year. He can transition to that position in time as he gains experience in the NHL. I just replied to a post on this subject and it all applies here as well. Is there a reason why it absolutely MUST be next year? While I 100% agree that Pettersson would be better suited to playing on the wing to start his career the one thing I worry about would be how often to player that come into the league as center but start at wing because they are too small transition back to center? It's a tough league to learn how to play any position and to learn how to play wing then be given the leeway to learn center after a few years doesn't seem to happen. Happened with Reinhardt and Nylander. Can't think of any other players that switched back to center after startng at the winger spot. That would be my only concern about starting Pettersson at the wing, we need him to be a center eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 minute ago, ilduce39 said: If he earns it, great. Sutter or Beagle can play wing. Problem solved. how many times do you need to be told - logic is not to tolerated in the summer on CDC - it frightens the children 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Horvat is a Boss said: That was Datsyukian... Do you know whos hes playing with? he made that guy look like a beer leaguer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specz Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Horvat is a Boss said: That was Datsyukian... I love watching this kid... Regardless of where he plays I will watch his games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Horvat is a Boss said: That was Datsyukian... ...he is going to make grown Dmen cry like babies... No-one is stopping that...maybe not even touching that... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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