-Vintage Canuck-

Quinn Hughes | #43 | D

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3 hours ago, 40Dangles said:

Wayne made everyone around him better. Mario was a better pure scorer and one on one player, pure hockey sense, ability to see the ice. No chance. Hell,  Mario only came “close” to breaking Wayne’s goal scoring record of 92 goals in a season (he may have if he hadn’t of been hurt), but in reality, Mario couldn’t even match that or come close again. Even on goalscoring ability  (which I’d reluctantly give Mario the. Edge) the stats don’t support it, Wayne scored 92, 87, 73, and 71 as his best. Mario broke 70 only twice. And let’s not forget the pure physical gifts and advantages Mario had over Wayne (and the entire league given his size).

Depends on what part of their careers your looking at. Did Mario almost score 100? Wayne could score and he did. He could also pass and he did. When Mario and Gretzky were in their primes it was some of the best head to head games I have ever watched. I take Gretzky all day every day. Most points in a season and most goals in a season. Cracked 200 pts 4 times. I am sure its because When Mario was at his best gretzky was already declining. But in the early years Mario chased Gretzky! He never caught Gretzky! But man when Gretzky was against Mario in the early years their was no question who the best player was! 

So 

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3 hours ago, 40Dangles said:

Wayne made everyone around him better. Mario was a better pure scorer and one on one player, pure hockey sense, ability to see the ice. No chance. Hell,  Mario only came “close” to breaking Wayne’s goal scoring record of 92 goals in a season (he may have if he hadn’t of been hurt), but in reality, Mario couldn’t even match that or come close again. Even on goalscoring ability  (which I’d reluctantly give Mario the. Edge) the stats don’t support it, Wayne scored 92, 87, 73, and 71 as his best. Mario broke 70 only twice. And let’s not forget the pure physical gifts and advantages Mario had over Wayne (and the entire league given his size).

Didn't Wayne say in and interview that Mario was the better player.

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43 minutes ago, Squamfan said:

Didn't Wayne say in and interview that Mario was the better player.

I recall that he thought they were equally smart and skilled but Mario had 4 inches 40 pounds and abouts foot more reach.

 

Mario also had the better points per game until his comeback.

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1 hour ago, cory40 said:

Depends on what part of their careers your looking at. Did Mario almost score 100? Wayne could score and he did. He could also pass and he did. When Mario and Gretzky were in their primes it was some of the best head to head games I have ever watched. I take Gretzky all day every day. Most points in a season and most goals in a season. Cracked 200 pts 4 times. I am sure its because When Mario was at his best gretzky was already declining. But in the early years Mario chased Gretzky! He never caught Gretzky! But man when Gretzky was against Mario in the early years their was no question who the best player was! 

So 

Gotta look at supporting cast when these feats happened as well.

 

85-86 Gretz had 215 pts but you had coffey, kurri and anderson all with over 100pts as well vs Mario got 141 pts next closest was mike bullard with 83

 

87-88 Super Mario  beat Gretz he did have 11 more GP, but again the next nearest player to Marios 168pts was Dan quinn with 79, where Gretz had Messier, Kurri and Anderson still

88-89 when Mario hit 199, Gretz only got 168 and had 2 more games played. Of particular note was Coffey on Pitts.

 

 

 

I think Mario was the better player, he could handle himself if he felt liberties were taken as a bonus. I mean both were friggin amazing but I'd slightly say Mario 60GP with 160Pts in the 90s, Gretzkey needed 78 games to get 168 pts.

Edited by shad0w4life

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38 minutes ago, Wanless said:

Mario also had the better points per game until his comeback.

^ This.

I'd probably take a healthy Mario before Wayne, but I'd spend a lot of time thinking about it.

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1 hour ago, Squamfan said:

Didn't Wayne say in and interview that Mario was the better player.

Just Wayne being humble. But deep down, he knows he was better. lol  As far as I know, anyone can still use #66 in the NHL.

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Wonder who Quin would pick 66 or 99?

 

Oops sorry to derail this thread:bigblush:

 

As a GM/Owner/Coach I'd take 99. 

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1 hour ago, shad0w4life said:

Gotta look at supporting cast when these feats happened as well.

 

85-86 Gretz had 215 pts but you had coffey, kurri and anderson all with over 100pts as well vs Mario got 141 pts next closest was mike bullard with 83

 

87-88 Super Mario  beat Gretz he did have 11 more GP, but again the next nearest player to Marios 168pts was Dan quinn with 79, where Gretz had Messier, Kurri and Anderson still

88-89 when Mario hit 199, Gretz only got 168 and had 2 more games played. Of particular note was Coffey on Pitts.

 

 

 

I think Mario was the better player, he could handle himself if he felt liberties were taken as a bonus. I mean both were friggin amazing but I'd slightly say Mario 60GP with 160Pts in the 90s, Gretzkey needed 78 games to get 168 pts.

I loved Mario, but he was a full tier down on Gretz when they were both in their prime.  Mario could take a team apart by himself, but Gretzky could do that and make every single player on his team much, much better.  Mario didn't have that same effect.

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10 minutes ago, stawns said:

I loved Mario, but he was a full tier down on Gretz when they were both in their prime.  Mario could take a team apart by himself, but Gretzky could do that and make every single player on his team much, much better.  Mario didn't have that same effect.

Both Mario and Wayne were phenoms.  Quinn Hughes is a phenom too.  With Pettersson, Brock, and Jack (Hughes) up front, I can see Quinn Hughes getting to 100 points.    

Edited by Alflives
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2 hours ago, cory40 said:

Depends on what part of their careers your looking at. Did Mario almost score 100? Wayne could score and he did. He could also pass and he did. When Mario and Gretzky were in their primes it was some of the best head to head games I have ever watched. I take Gretzky all day every day. Most points in a season and most goals in a season. Cracked 200 pts 4 times. I am sure its because When Mario was at his best gretzky was already declining. But in the early years Mario chased Gretzky! He never caught Gretzky! But man when Gretzky was against Mario in the early years their was no question who the best player was! 

So 

I’m agreeing with you, I’m all gretz all day as the best ever. 

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1 hour ago, shad0w4life said:

Gotta look at supporting cast when these feats happened as well.

 

85-86 Gretz had 215 pts but you had coffey, kurri and anderson all with over 100pts as well vs Mario got 141 pts next closest was mike bullard with 83

 

87-88 Super Mario  beat Gretz he did have 11 more GP, but again the next nearest player to Marios 168pts was Dan quinn with 79, where Gretz had Messier, Kurri and Anderson still

88-89 when Mario hit 199, Gretz only got 168 and had 2 more games played. Of particular note was Coffey on Pitts.

 

 

 

I think Mario was the better player, he could handle himself if he felt liberties were taken as a bonus. I mean both were friggin amazing but I'd slightly say Mario 60GP with 160Pts in the 90s, Gretzkey needed 78 games to get 168 pts.

Gretz turned those players into those players. If you were around, not sure if you were, hell I could have played with him and scored 50. The guy literally gave players empty nets to shoot at with his passing. Remember BJ Mcdonald? Lol look up his stats of when he played a Wayne vs when our stupid management traded for him thinking he had real talent lol! Wayne bounced the puck of his own players sticks into the net - it really was more of that than “all of them being greats” 

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Can we quit talking about Wayne vs Mario!!!

 

 

Dammit I am jor mentally prepared for the off season!  

 

Sorry  

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7 hours ago, 40Dangles said:

Wayne made everyone around him better. Mario was a better pure scorer and one on one player, pure hockey sense, ability to see the ice. No chance. Hell,  Mario only came “close” to breaking Wayne’s goal scoring record of 92 goals in a season (he may have if he hadn’t of been hurt), but in reality, Mario couldn’t even match that or come close again. Even on goalscoring ability  (which I’d reluctantly give Mario the. Edge) the stats don’t support it, Wayne scored 92, 87, 73, and 71 as his best. Mario broke 70 only twice. And let’s not forget the pure physical gifts and advantages Mario had over Wayne (and the entire league given his size).

Mario made everyone better around him too, probably just as good if not more than Wayne. Wayne had perennial hall of famers playing with him, that were still good players even AFTER Gretzky got traded to the Kings, Kurri, Anderson, Tikanen were still pretty good players. Before Jagr, Mario was basically working with guys that just came out of the bus and turned them into 90-100 pt players. Best example? Kevin Stevens. Stevens was probably vying for the best LW in the game alongside Luc Robitaille at that time, Stevens turned into trash as soon as he left Mario's team. Mario was bigger than Wayne, yes, but Wayne had the most important thing going for him, Health. Teams can't exactly key on Gretzkys line because Messier line was pretty good as well, with Mario, teams had to only stop one player from the Penguins. Numerous injuries derailed Lemieux's career. Keep in mind when Lemieux was putting up astronomical numbers in the mid-80s, he was also heavy gamer, a pack and a half smoker and didnt have a clue what a healthy diet was. It wasn't just just about the numbers, its how Lemieux put up those numbers. The most impressive season that Ive ever seen a player play was Mario's I want to say 1994 season?, winning the scoring title after finishing up his treatment from Hodgekins disease!!! Think about that for a second, a guy steps out of the hospital, laces his skates and ends up winning the Art Ross (and Hart?). And by the way, had he played a full season that year, Mario would've broken Gretzkys pts and goals record for the season. I remember watching sportspage everynight trying to find out how many pts Mario scored that night, he'd put up 4-5 on consecutive nights, 2 pts would be a bad game for him.

 

Like I said, we're both splitting hairs here, on whos better and we're not the only ones that have this debate before. Quite simply put, one game, Gretzky vs Lemieux, best day vs best day with equally skilled linemates, I'd take Mario simply because he has the size and reach because both their hockey IQ are pretty equal. I have over 50 Gretzky cards in my collection, much more than I have of Lemieux's ( I have I think about 15- 20), so im not exactly playing favorites here.

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21 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

I saw Quinn for the first (and obviously last) time on campus last night. Was wondering what he was still doing in Michigan so this explains it haha.

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3 hours ago, stawns said:

I loved Mario, but he was a full tier down on Gretz when they were both in their prime.  Mario could take a team apart by himself, but Gretzky could do that and make every single player on his team much, much better.  Mario didn't have that same effect.

I suggest looking at the Penguins rosters pre Jagr and tell me how many future hall of famers you see playing with Mario not named Paul Coffey. Mario turned garbage into gold with those players. He literally turned pylons in to 80-90 pt players

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