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Quinn Hughes | #43 | D


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45 minutes ago, DJSkingz said:

Unpopular opinion: Hughes is unable to QB the PP because he is unable to not pass into a players skates.

 

Granted, not saying he can't work on this but seriously, most power plays EP40 or BB6 need to stop the pass and then decide what to do with it. It is not delivered in a consistent manner to produce a one-timer.

 

Also fire NB. That is all.

Actually a valid point, his passing on the PP hasn't been that good, although his overall PP play has. To some extent, it's likely because opposing teams generally cheat a bit on both sides since they know Boeser and EP are there for one-timers. But this leaves two questions imo:

 

1) If other teams can get their passes through for one-timers, why can't we? Need faster passing from all 5 guys?

2) If the other team takes away the one-timers on both side, mathematically that should mean QH can walk right in and create a 3 on 2 in the middle, or draw the opposition from either side towards him so Boeser or EP gets open?

 

But what do I know, I'm not mr Brown ;-)

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4 hours ago, DJSkingz said:

Unpopular opinion: Hughes is unable to QB the PP because he is unable to not pass into a players skates.

 

Granted, not saying he can't work on this but seriously, most power plays EP40 or BB6 need to stop the pass and then decide what to do with it. It is not delivered in a consistent manner to produce a one-timer.

 

Also fire NB. That is all.

Then entire team's execution has been poor a lot of this recent losing streak. It's not just Hughes.

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3 hours ago, Tiger-Hearted said:

Hughes Rookie Watch:

Needs 27 more assists to tie Dale Tallon(42), '71.

Needs 49 more points to tie Elias Pettersson(66), '19.

Unlike he catches Petey, but astoundingly, he could perceivably catch Tallon's assist record. 

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4 hours ago, Tiger-Hearted said:

Hughes Rookie Watch:

Needs 27 more assists to tie Dale Tallon(42), '71.

Needs 49 more points to tie Elias Pettersson(66), '19.

I'm more interested in knowing how he's keeping up with Makar.  That will be a race to watch through the rest of the season.  Although I know Hughes' chances of catching Makar are slim to none, unless Makar gets injured, a la Boeser in his rookie season.

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8 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

I'm more interested in knowing how he's keeping up with Makar.  That will be a race to watch through the rest of the season.  Although I know Hughes' chances of catching Makar are slim to none, unless Makar gets injured, a la Boeser in his rookie season.

Cale Maker: 22 GP, 7-18-25

Quinn Hughes: 22 GP, 2-15-17

 

Makar is definitely the favorite but I wouldn't say Hughes' chances are slim to none. Conceivably, a single hot and cold streak over a couple of weeks could tip the scales back in Hughes' favor. 

 

And just for fun:

 

Jack Hughes: GP 20, 4-6-10

 

:bigblush:

Edited by HerrDrFunk
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2 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Cale Maker: 22 GP, 7-18-25

Quinn Hughes: 22 GP, 2-15-17

 

Makar is definitely the favorite but I wouldn't say Hughes' chances are slim to none. Conceivably, a single hot and cold streak over a couple of weeks could tip the scales back in Hughes' favor. 

 

And just for fun:

 

Jack Hughes: GP 20, 4-6-10

 

:bigblush:

Quinn is the better defenceman, but that doesn't matter much in the rookie race, its all scoring. Certainly lots of time for Quinn to close the gap on points tho. 

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34 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Cale Maker: 22 GP, 7-18-25

Quinn Hughes: 22 GP, 2-15-17

 

Makar is definitely the favorite but I wouldn't say Hughes' chances are slim to none. Conceivably, a single hot and cold streak over a couple of weeks could tip the scales back in Hughes' favor. 

 

And just for fun:

 

Jack Hughes: GP 20, 4-6-10

 

:bigblush:

Maker  21yrs

Q. Hughes  20yrs

J. Hughes 18yrs

 

Maker is clearly the favourite for the Calder, but he is older than the other two.

 

I wonder what Quinn's #s will be next year.  He may put up better #s that Maker this year.

I wouldn't worry about Jack.  By the time he is Maker's age, he'll be putting up Kane #s (or better).

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51 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Quinn is the better defenceman, but that doesn't matter much in the rookie race, its all scoring. Certainly lots of time for Quinn to close the gap on points tho. 

I hate that Makar punk. :sick:  I guess that means he's really good.  If he was an actor I'd wish him to "break a leg".  

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38 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I hate that Makar punk. :sick:  I guess that means he's really good.  If he was an actor I'd wish him to "break a leg".  

It's a shame Alf that we don't have the NHL in the Olympics anymore.  Imagine the new Team Canada: The two Macs at centre just to get things going (with Sid as our 3rd center lol, and Bergeron as 4th) and Makar, Burns, and Rielly to anchor the new more mobile D.  Would be the fastest team ever assembled, score at will.  Throw in the likes of Hall on the wings...  Unfortunately, Vancouver's best players would be on the other nations' teams.  Unless Horvat gets in there, which he might, actually. 

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32 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Makar > Hughes >>>>> Barrie

Hughes drives play (according to the fancy stats) better than Makar.  Hughes contributes more to the team winning than Makar does.  Makar is clearly very good.  But Hughes is better.  Points don't determine the complete value of a player, even though that's what mostly drives their contract dollars.  

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39 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Hughes drives play (according to the fancy stats) better than Makar.  Hughes contributes more to the team winning than Makar does.  Makar is clearly very good.  But Hughes is better.  Points don't determine the complete value of a player, even though that's what mostly drives their contract dollars.  

Hughes is now our best D.  Not just because of points, but imo, primarily because of what he does defensively.  He closes gaps, intercepts passes, defends against all types of rushes, takes pucks out of the D zone on his own... rushes players in his own zone so they aren't comfortable making nice set up passes...  It is making the contrast with Edler and to some extent Benn really obvious: quick D defend better, therefore take less penalties, make the team less vulnerable to easy goals.  I wish we had 2 more of him and 2 less of Edler.   

 

In a way, Stecher foreshadowed this: very similar players, Hughes is just a bit quicker and a better skater.

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4 minutes ago, gameburn said:

Hughes is now our best D.  Not just because of points, but imo, primarily because of what he does defensively.  He closes gaps, intercepts passes, defends against all types of rushes, takes pucks out of the D zone on his own... rushes players in his own zone so they aren't comfortable making nice set up passes...  It is making the contrast with Edler and to some extent Benn really obvious: quick D defend better, therefore take less penalties, make the team less vulnerable to easy goals.  I wish we had 2 more of him and 2 less of Edler.   

 

In a way, Stecher foreshadowed this: very similar players, Hughes is just a bit quicker and a better skater.

And all your stated reasons why Quinn is so good, and our best D man, makes me question why Green doesn't play Quinn for the last 10 minutes in close games, when we're defending a lead?  Quinn would control the play, as he does, and we wouldn't be stuck defending so much in our own end.  Plus, sitting Quinn for those last few minute when we're defending a lead sends the wrong message to the other players, about Defend, but don't attack.  Why should we change how we're playing when how we played got us the lead? 

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53 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Hughes drives play (according to the fancy stats) better than Makar.  Hughes contributes more to the team winning than Makar does.  Makar is clearly very good.  But Hughes is better.  Points don't determine the complete value of a player, even though that's what mostly drives their contract dollars.  

Which stats?

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1 minute ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Which stats?

They were fancy stats posted earlier in the Hughes' thread.  It was something crazy like we have 7 shots to every 3 the other team has, when Quinn is on the ice 5 on 5.  And he has something ridiculous like 70% possession.  The stats were really showed how crazy good Quinn is beyond just putting up points.  Go find them and you will like them.  :towel:

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13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And all your stated reasons why Quinn is so good, and our best D man, makes me question why Green doesn't play Quinn for the last 10 minutes in close games, when we're defending a lead?  Quinn would control the play, as he does, and we wouldn't be stuck defending so much in our own end.  Plus, sitting Quinn for those last few minute when we're defending a lead sends the wrong message to the other players, about Defend, but don't attack.  Why should we change how we're playing when how we played got us the lead? 

It's the same problem every team has which has an Edler or a Muller (Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga) -- a senior player and leader.  Very difficult to transition them to a smaller role.  

I think it has to be done.  A new coach would have no problem with this imo.  Not saying we should get a new coach.

Playing a 5-man retreat isn't working.  You see how Edler and to a certain extent Benn and Myers retreat to the box... just a disaster, allows the other team to set up a pp when there isn't actually a pp.  Horvat has been coached to do this, so have some of the others.  Not good. 

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10 hours ago, Alflives said:

And all your stated reasons why Quinn is so good, and our best D man, makes me question why Green doesn't play Quinn for the last 10 minutes in close games, when we're defending a lead?  Quinn would control the play, as he does, and we wouldn't be stuck defending so much in our own end.  Plus, sitting Quinn for those last few minute when we're defending a lead sends the wrong message to the other players, about Defend, but don't attack.  Why should we change how we're playing when how we played got us the lead? 

I've never liked the way the team fades into a passive shell near the end of so many of the games they lead.  I also don't like having Leivo and Baertschi (when he is not in the AHL) on pp when Virtanen is available -- it's really the same problem: about utilising players and building a winning team.  About not being disabled by traditional thinking.

 

I suspect that Green has an old school mentality that says the Beagle/Sutter/Edler types are good for defending, while the Pettersson/Hughes/Boeser types are for attacking. Just because a guy scores or is good at puck control doesn't mean he can't defend.  He does the same by putting Beagle, Horvat and Sutter on D zone faceoffs and Pettersson on O zone faceoffs.  Stupid, imo, because it is so easy to rush up the ice and change the game, it's so quick now in today's game.  This same problem shows up in who starts the game: often it is the 3rd of 4th line that opens the game. Stupid.  The Oilers used to do this at one point back in the days of Gretzky, until someone pointed out that you were probably losing a goal every two games by doing this!  Especially bad in the playoffs when momentum and good starts are so important.

 

Same with D zone starts. If you give the Beagles and Schallers a lot of the D zone starts, you will see less of the offensive players, and have less of a chance to change momentum. It also makes line changing an ordeal -- especially on the road!  (How many penalties do we get for this, or give up scoring chances so that Green can rotate and change his lines/centers like mad.)  A "bonus" to the over-use of defensive/faceoff guys is that you lose cohesion by having a different center with the line that is out there (unless you use the entire 3rd/4th line, which is even worse.)

It is also shocking to see Schaller and Leivo get more ice time than Virtanen.  On a team that needs goal scoring you keep one of our few bona fide scorers on the bench?  Get enough penalties (for or against) and guys like Virtanen don't see the ice for half a game.  Pettersson and Boeser don't kill penalties, same issue, nor does Virtanen or Hughes very much.  Hopeless.  Watch a team like the Leafs use Marner killing penalties and you see what's missing with the Canucks.  I didn't like the way the Sedins sat for minutes on end while the other guys killed penalties. TEACH THE BETTER PLAYERS HOW TO PLAY IN ALL SITUATIONS.  DON'T SPECIALIZE TOO MUCH. And, find a way to have your best/core players play the majority of the minutes.

 

Same with the way that some of the D defend. All the shot blocking is part of the same passive D thinking -- i.e., a symptom of a problem not a sign of good defending.  You'll notice that Hughes finds ways to defend without making himself a pincushion for pucks or taking a bunch of holding/slashing/tripping penalties while defending.  Nor does Stech or the many other quick D around the league.  My guess is that Woo and Juolevi do more of what Hughes does and less of the stuff that Edler and Tanev do.  At least I hope so.

 

We are starting to see the return of the old Edler, the one from 2 or 3 years ago: too passive, too slow on rushes, and way too many penalties.  Keep him for the second power play (he is actually a better attacker than a defender) and restrict his minutes to 15 a game.  And rest him on back to backs.  Or move him. Moving him to another team works for me too. 

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