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RUPERTKBD

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11 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

 Don't  know  how but in the end we spoke about the Ukraine and I was very surprised when one of them told me that the Ukraine is their country, even if  the Ukraine  had been independent from Russia  for  several years. That really was an eye opener for me how the Russians think of the Ukraine.

Now, if they would only ask the Ukrainians how they think of Ukraine.

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I have a few friends in Kiev who say the Russian military build up is made up by USA and its media to try to stop the Nord stream 2 from being completed. When I asked directly all I got back was it is nothing but politics nothing will happen.

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

 

 

 

 

I have a few friends in Kiev who say the Russian military build up is made up by USA and its media to try to stop the Nord stream 2 from being completed. When I asked directly all I got back was it is nothing but politics nothing will happen.

I don't understand....how does a military build up in the Ukraine stop a pipeline running through the Baltic Sea? :unsure:

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5 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

They also said the buildup was fake or was not in the manner that US media is playing . 

I got that. Sanctions makes sense to me, but a military buildup does not. At least, not as a way of halting a pipeline being completed.

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Just now, RUPERTKBD said:

I got that. Sanctions makes sense to me, but a military buildup does not. At least, not as a way of halting a pipeline being completed.

I dunno. They said the build up was fake or not what the USA is portraying. That is what they said. I can ask for more clarification. However, if you look at Caspianreports. they indicate that Russia wants to expand to get their territory back. They also explain that that area around Ukraine is where they are the weakest or hardest to defend. So, maybe the troops have always been there and now USA is taking pictures and screaming foul to get sanctions placed on Russia to stop the Nord stream 2 and keep their dominance on the petrol dollar. I dunno. 

 

I posted what they said and I posted Caspianreports. You make up your own mind.  

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4 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

I dunno. They said the build up was fake or not what the USA is portraying. That is what they said. I can ask for more clarification. However, if you look at Caspianreports. they indicate that Russia wants to expand to get their territory back. They also explain that that area around Ukraine is where they are the weakest or hardest to defend. So, maybe the troops have always been there and now USA is taking pictures and screaming foul to get sanctions placed on Russia to stop the Nord stream 2 and keep their dominance on the petrol dollar. I dunno. 

 

I posted what they said and I posted Caspianreports. You make up your own mind.  

Don't get me wrong. I'm not calling out your info.

 

I think reclaiming territory that they believe to be Russian is the reason for the buildup. I'm just not sold on the pipeline angle, although anything is possible, I suppose.

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8 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Don't get me wrong. I'm not calling out your info.

 

I think reclaiming territory that they believe to be Russian is the reason for the buildup. I'm just not sold on the pipeline angle, although anything is possible, I suppose.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60151839

 

The US has threatened to halt the opening of a key pipeline that would send Russian gas to Western Europe, if Russia invades Ukraine.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60145159

 

The US has rejected Russia's demand to bar Ukraine from Nato, amid warnings Russia might invade its neighbour.

 

 

Funny that we were talking about it and these pop up on BBC. My question (to myself mostly) is when did Ukraine start getting offers to join NATO. That has always been a big no no as it puts NATO on Russia's weak underbelly. I mean, if politics is chess that would be a move that guarantees a specific response from Russia.

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I think it is significant that a good portion of the Ukrainian population has never lived under Russian rule. Ukrainian government is busy setting up and training gorilla fighters in the event the country is over ran. Taking out Ukraine is a big challenge and has serious possible downside for Russia. There is some internal dissent in Russia so such a war could backfire on Putin. People tend to forget the civil unrest that caused problems for Gorbachev.

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The reclaiming territory bit is actually a significant part here. Imagine if the USA got broken up into some smaller countries (which included separating the founding states from the main) and a larger rump. That rump still is called the USA, and they wanted the original states back.

 

Ukraine is the heartland of where Russia came from, Kiev is the heartland city and the rus is where they see themselves coming from. They see Ukraine as part of Russia not a separate entity. 
 

In their mind historically most of what is Ukraine today was either part of russian or part of the polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.  What they neglect is that Kiev was part of the commonwealth and the drift of the people in Ukraine to their own identity happened long before the soviet era. The period of the Cossacks alone shows that. 
 

Now I dont support Russia’s view or advocate for them but Putin is looking for war as a distraction either by having one or forcing concessions from the west to make him look tough and strong to keep up his image and try and distract from internal dissent . But the reason for Ukraine is the same as for Crimea in that it’s an area that plays well for Russian nationalists. 

Edited by UKNuck96
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On 1/27/2022 at 12:08 PM, gurn said:

" just reclaiming territory"

Is what the Chinese said about Tibet, and are saying about Taiwan.

And what Japan said about China...

 

And what Germany said about Austria…

 

It rarely ever stops at “we’re just gonna take this one piece of territory”

 

Before you know it Russia has rebuilt the whole damn USSR.

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On 1/28/2022 at 10:42 PM, UKNuck96 said:

The reclaiming territory bit is actually a significant part here. Imagine if the USA got broken up into some smaller countries (which included separating the founding states from the main) and a larger rump. That rump still is called the USA, and they wanted the original states back.

 

Ukraine is the heartland of where Russia came from, Kiev is the heartland city and the rus is where they see themselves coming from. They see Ukraine as part of Russia not a separate entity. 
 

In their mind historically most of what is Ukraine today was either part of russian or part of the polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.  What they neglect is that Kiev was part of the commonwealth and the drift of the people in Ukraine to their own identity happened long before the soviet era. The period of the Cossacks alone shows that. 
 

Now I dont support Russia’s view or advocate for them but Putin is looking for war as a distraction either by having one or forcing concessions from the west to make him look tough and strong to keep up his image and try and distract from internal dissent . But the reason for Ukraine is the same as for Crimea in that it’s an area that plays well for Russian nationalists. 

Good points… 

 

But I believe Russia is only interested in taking Eastern Ukraine.. 

 

 

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On 1/28/2022 at 11:23 PM, DeNiro said:

And what Japan said about China...

 

And what Germany said about Austria…

 

It rarely ever stops at “we’re just gonna take this one piece of territory”

 

Before you know it Russia has rebuilt the whole damn USSR.

Who are we to judge? Are you ready to enlist and stop them? We were warned 50 years ago about the Perestroika deception and everyone laughed it off. 

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On 1/27/2022 at 8:41 PM, RUPERTKBD said:

I don't understand....how does a military build up in the Ukraine stop a pipeline running through the Baltic Sea? :unsure:

my understanding is that the company responsible for the construction of the pipeline North Stream 2 - located in Switzerland - has not yet met the regulatory requirements necessary for the start of the pipeline.

The United States of America, some western european countries like France and some eastern european countries like Poland tried to stop the build of the pipeline arguing the increased dependency from Russian gas.

German politicians brought up that the pipeline would never go into operation if Russia invades the Ukraine. There 's basically two reasons for the current stop of the pipeline which is fully constructed, but not in operation yet:

 

- necessary regulatory requirements not yet met

- possible stop of the start of the pipeline as part of sanctions against Russia (Germany is a member of the NATO, and as such part of the Western alliance). Hope this provides some clarification.

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3 hours ago, drummer4now said:

Good points… 

 

But I believe Russia is only interested in taking Eastern Ukraine.. 

 

 

what about putin's goal of taking control over the gas and oil pipelines in the Ukraine in order to not have to pay 3 billion US-$ per year to the Ukraine for the transition of gas & oil ?

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