[Discussion] Starting line-up and Waiver Concerns

[J.I.A.H.N]

8 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Who are they going to waive to make it happen?   Perhaps Canucks like that player better.   Point is, I still think it is at best a hypothetical concern.   Name a key Canuck lost to waivers in their entire near 50 year history.   Why on earth would that history change this year?

I think that is a valid point Robb, but

My problem is not with how we dodge one waiver wire

But what happens if 4 or 5 players (Gaudette, Pettersson, Juolevi, Hughes, and Goldobin) outplay those vets, because it won't be the 3 UFA's that are moved

Normally, you don't see one team trying to clear mid-level talent out at the end of pre-season

So, ultimately....the kids stay in Utica, even though they may have outplayed the vets, until January (TDL) or injury

My questions wasn't about being afraid of loosing one player, but rather trying to draw out discussion on this matter....

and the thoughts of CDC on these issues …..we are at an exciting time, will some very interesting prospects that will force some decisions

 

[Rob_Zepp]

2 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I think that is a valid point Robb, but

My problem is not with how we dodge one waiver wire

But what happens if 4 or 5 players (Gaudette, Pettersson, Juolevi, Hughes, and Goldobin) outplay those vets, because it won't be the 3 UFA's that are moved

Normally, you don't see one team trying to clear mid-level talent out at the end of pre-season

So, ultimately....the kids stay in Utica, even though they may have outplayed the vets, until January (TDL) or injury

My questions wasn't about being afraid of loosing one player, but rather trying to draw out discussion on this matter....

and the thoughts of CDC on these issues …..we are at an exciting time, will some very interesting prospects that will force some decisions

 

Why won't the UFAs be moved or waived?    Further, this years UFA signings are in zero competition for any of those names you have above except perhaps Gaudette...but even that is a stretch.   None of the Dmen or EP/Goldy will be competing for a bottom six forward role.   Right?

 

Finally, Vancouver has some depth.   With depth will come loss of some players.   I think people will be upset when their pet project player is let go and there will be crying about mis-management (remember all the noise about Corrado...and clearly he was the missing link to Canuck dominance) whereas as the team improves, more and more players will be let go that are decent NHL players.   Fact of life for an improving team.

 

What I don't understand is why people think Canucks will lose anyone of consequence this year.  I just don't see any long-term key player being lost for a at least this season and perhaps one further.   

[smithers joe]

all i know is that in 3 years, our team should look like,

dahlen... pettersson...

horvat...boeser...

gaudette....lind..

i see players like virtanen...gadjovich  and leipsic filling into those slots.

juolevi...hughes

brisebois...woo

sautner...stecher

pouliot...chatfield

 

that would mean a lot more players are going to have to go.

 

[theo5789]

A few points that I'd like to bring up. First off, anyone thinking Gagner will get waived will be disappointed. Secondly, anyone thinking it'll be easy to just move a couple of guys before the season starts will be disappointed. Thirdly, we will waive guys and it is very likely none will be taken, even Goldobin.

 

Despite the value some feel our players have, it is just not the same on the real market. Most teams will have their own lineup issues they will like to solve or have prospects that they would like to crack their roster that it is unlikely teams will take on our guys and hold up more spots of their own. A lot of players will actually have more value once they've cleared waivers. Unless we are willing to give up assets to move players like Gagner or MDZ, they won't be moved. Even if someone is taken on waivers, it'll likely not be someone of too much concern because someone better has come along and whoever we waive is clearly not needed anymore.

[theo5789]

50 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I think that is a valid point Robb, but

My problem is not with how we dodge one waiver wire

But what happens if 4 or 5 players (Gaudette, Pettersson, Juolevi, Hughes, and Goldobin) outplay those vets, because it won't be the 3 UFA's that are moved

Normally, you don't see one team trying to clear mid-level talent out at the end of pre-season

So, ultimately....the kids stay in Utica, even though they may have outplayed the vets, until January (TDL) or injury

My questions wasn't about being afraid of loosing one player, but rather trying to draw out discussion on this matter....

and the thoughts of CDC on these issues …..we are at an exciting time, will some very interesting prospects that will force some decisions

 

Juolevi is coming off a surgery and will need some time. Depending on how we value Pouliot, he could be waived if Hughes impresses as Hughes would take the offensive role that Pouliot is expected to fill. Otherwise, I could see Biega being waived, but he's just such an excellent extra dman that he would fit a lot of team's depth as the extra guy. I think teams are actually less likely to take on Pouliot if waived.

 

IMO, based on the brief glimpse of Gaudette last season, he could use some time in Utica. Unless he has improved his game a lot in the offseason, I can't see him not starting the year in Utica. Pettersson should be able to crack the NHL roster, but whether that'll be the starting line-up or maybe later into the season, that'll be determined.

 

Goldobin still needs a lot of work to crack the NHL roster and it looks like the bottom 6 will be much more defense oriented, so I don't see a fit there for him and he hasn't been all too impressive to take a top 6 role. There is some waiver concern because of his age and potential, but I've seen several players just like him waived and cleared last season, so I won't be too concerned. He could be moved if he clears waivers, but I don't see a team taking him on and being comfortable putting him into their NHL roster immediately.

 

If somehow all of those players make a Boeser-like impression in preseason, then it's simply a great problem to have.

[TheGuardian_]

Good topic;

 

While sending down is mentioned there were quite a few players in Utica last year;

 

Forwards
#	Name	Pos	Shoots	Height	Weight	DOB	Birth place
9	Yan-Pavel Laplante	LW	L	6-0	189	1995-04-23	Chateauguay, QC	5493
11	Cam Darcy	C	R	6-0	186	1994-03-02	South Boston, MA	5934
13	Griffen Molino	LW	R	6-0	183	1994-01-21	Trenton, MI	6897
14	Tyler Motte	LW	L	5-9	188	1995-03-10	St. Clair, MI	6331
15	Zack MacEwen	RW	R	6-4	211	1996-07-08	Charlottetown, PE	6751
16	Joseph LaBate	LW	L	6-5	211	1993-04-16	Eagan, MN	5882
17	Alexis D'Aoust	RW	R	6-0	200	1996-04-03	Trois-Rivieres, QC	6898
19	Cole Cassels	C	R	6-0	182	1995-05-04	Hartford, CT	6039
20	Brendan Woods	C	L	6-3	222	1992-06-11	Humboldt, SK	4920
21	Michael Chaput	C	L	6-2	199	1992-04-09	Ile Bizard, QC	4641
22	David Dziurzynski	LW	L	6-3	228	1989-10-06	Lloydminster, AB	3726
23	Jayson Megna	RW	R	6-1	194	1990-02-01	Ft. Lauderdale, FL	4584
24	Reid Boucher	LW	L	5-10	191	1993-09-08	Grand Ledge, MI	4552
34	Carter Bancks	RW	L	5-11	182	1989-08-09	Marysville, BC	3557
36	Wacey Hamilton	C	L	5-11	184	1990-09-10	Cochrane, AB	4250
54	Jonathan Dahlen	LW	L	5-11	180	1997-12-20	Ostersund, Sweden	7134
58	Michael Carcone	LW	L	5-10	172	1996-05-19	Ajax, ON	6501
77	Nikolay Goldobin	LW	L	5-11	199	1995-10-07	Moscow, Russia	5898
7	Tanner MacMaster	LW	L	6-0	185	1996-01-08	Calgary, AB	7026
8	Anton Rodin	RW	L	5-11	185	1990-11-21	Stockholm, Sweden	4293
10	Brendan Gaunce	LW	L	6-2	214	1993-03-25	Sudbury, ON	5645
10	Matt Leitner	C	L	5-9	197	1990-11-27	Los Alamitos, CA	6177
12	Danny Moynihan	LW	L	6-0	189	1995-12-08	Boston, MA	6896
14	Brady Brassart	RW	R	6-2	210	1993-06-15	Vernon, BC	5500
14	Justin Taylor	C	R	5-10	193	1989-02-08	London, ON	3755
18	Vincent Arseneau	LW	L	6-2	231	1992-03-26	Iles-de-la-Madeleine, QC	4830
22	Joel Lowry	LW	L	6-2	192	1991-11-15	Calgary, AB	6090
22	Brian Ward	C	L	6-1	205	1992-02-14	Haverhill, MA	6256
25	Darren Archibald	LW	L	6-3	212	1990-02-09	Newmarket, ON	4164
27	Tony Cameranesi	C	R	5-10	184	1993-08-12	Plymouth, MN	6266
37	Kole Lind	RW	R	6-1	186	1998-10-16	Shaunavon, SK	7101
39	Zac Lynch	RW	R	6-0	202	1992-03-15	Pittsburgh, PA	6235
39	Marco Roy	LW	L	6-1	183	1994-11-05	Boisbriand, QC	6141
40	Lukas Jasek	RW	R	6-1	184	1997-08-28	Trinec, Czech Republic	7082
43	Caleb Herbert	C	R	6-0	200	1991-10-12	Bloomington, MN	5460
57	Dwyer Tschantz	RW	R	6-5	225	1995-03-22	Wilmington, DE	7081
82	Andrew Cherniwchan	RW	R	5-11	172	1989-04-20	Hinton, AB	5134
Defencemen
#	Name	Pos	Shoots	Height	Weight	DOB	Birth place
4	Evan McEneny	D	L	6-3	221	1994-05-22	Hamilton, ON	5533
5	Jalen Chatfield	D	R	6-0	183	1996-05-16	Ypsilanti, MI	6899
6	Ashton Sautner	D	L	6-0	194	1994-05-27	Flaxcombe, SK	5929
7	Jordan Subban	D	R	5-9	180	1995-03-03	Rexdale, ON	6019
8	Dylan Blujus	D	R	6-3	207	1994-01-22	Buffalo, NY	5638
12	Nolan Valleau	D	L	6-1	181	1992-11-15	Novi, MI	6104
26	Jaime Sifers	D	R	5-11	198	1983-01-18	Stratford, CT	1106
28	Patrick Wiercioch	D	L	6-5	209	1990-09-12	Burnaby, BC	3721
44	Adam Comrie	D	L	6-4	221	1990-07-31	Ottawa, ON	3661
52	Philip Holm	D	L	6-1	190	1991-12-08	Stockholm, Sweden	6900
55	Guillaume Brisebois	D	L	6-3	189	1997-07-21	St. Hilaire, QC	6901
2	Anton Cederholm	D	L	6-2	215	1995-02-21	Helsingborg, Sweden	6016
2	Justin Hamonic	D	R	6-2	210	1994-02-14	Winnipeg, MB	6180
2	Aaron Irving	D	R	6-1	204	1996-03-03	Edmonton, AB	6343
3	Joe Faust	D	R	5-11	210	1991-11-15	Bloomington, MN	5549
29	Frankie Simonelli	D	R	5-11	192	1992-10-29	Bensenville, IL	5526
29	Cliff Watson	D	L	6-2	210	1993-12-21	Appleton, WI	6936
57	Mathieu Brodeur	D	L	6-5	215	1990-06-21	Montreal, QC	3629
57	Willie Corrin	D	L	6-2	198	1991-08-01	International Falls, MN	6277
57	Mackenze Stewart	D	L	6-3	228	1995-08-10	Calgary, AB	6044
Goalies
#	Name	Pos	Catches	Height	Weight	DOB	Birth place
30	Thatcher Demko	G	L	6-4	204	1995-12-08	San Diego, CA	6502
32	Richard Bachman	G	L	5-10	175	1987-07-25	Salt Lake City, UT	3432
41	Michael Garteig	G	L	6-1	190	1991-12-05	Prince George, BC	6559
31	Paul Berrafato	G	R	5-11	175	1993-06-09	Buffalo, NY	7080
35	Adam Dekker	G	L	6-3	205	1984-03-21		7077
35	Mitch Gillam	G	R

Many of these are in the prospect pool, some have moved on but there are rules about the numbers of veterans and contracts as well. The team does have an ECHL as well but which go there.

 

 

There is no roster limit in the AHL. While the NHL is limited to a 23-man active roster (plus any players placed on injured reserve), there is nothing that prohibits an AHL team from carrying 35 players (except the financial ability to pay all of them).  There is no such thing as injured reserve in the AHL, so if a team has a player with a season ending injury, he will simply sit idle on your roster for the remainder of the season.

 

That being said, there IS a limit that a team can only dress 18 skaters and two goalies in each game, so it doesn’t make practical sense to carry much more than 23 healthy bodies on a roster.

 

Technically there is no limit on how many Veterans or Veteran Exempts a team can carry on their roster. But there are restrictions to how many of them can dress in each game. The limit of combined Veterans and VE’s that can dress in each game is six. At least one of those skaters HAS to be a VE. So you cannot dress six veterans in a game, but you can dress six VE’s in a game

 

Just some added info about AHL stuff.

[6string]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

I see Gaudette and Dahlen starting in Utica.  Pettersson and Hughes are NHL players.  Juiolevi is a real question mark.  

I agree and we can add Demko who may win the backup position too.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

I don't feel this is a concern, first off all 31 teams will be trying to sneak their guys down on Waivers so the chance is quite minimal that anyone gets claimed anyways. And if it is a depth fringe roster player being waived for a higher end prospect for example I don't see that as a loss but quality control going into Camp is all. You want players to fill roles, you add veterans and AHL players in the mix in the event a prospect cannot make it.

 

Goldobin, really feel he is being underrated by too many. I don't foresee a scenario where he is waived, he will play in a role to be successful offensively with the club. This guy should be the next up and comer to flirt with 20 goals this season. Management has also indicated the youngsters will need to provide the offense. Goldobin makes the roster and will produce.

[Schmautzie]

3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Who are they going to waive to make it happen?   Perhaps Canucks like that player better.   Point is, I still think it is at best a hypothetical concern.   Name a key Canuck lost to waivers in their entire near 50 year history.   Why on earth would that history change this year?

Igor Larionov!

[NHL'er]

6 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said:

I'm not particularly worried about losing any waiver eligible guys come October. There's always a flood of guys hitting the waiver wire before each season and unless a team is desperate, it's fairly rare for a player to get claimed then as teams are in the process of setting their opening night roster. 

 

Besides, wasn't Corrado the last "notable" player that the Canucks lost to waivers? How's he doing these days? 

He's going to be the Dutch Bobby Orr à la Dale Weise being the Dutch Gretzky. 

[Dixon Ward]

28 minutes ago, Schmautzie said:

Igor Larionov!

If Hutton, MDZ, Gagner, Pouliot, Leipsic, Motte, Nilsson, etc... show up and get beat out by Petersson, Dahlen, Gaudette, Hughes, Juolevi, Lind, Goldobin, or even Palmu, then expose them to waivers and hope that someone comes and gets them.  We need to have a straight up honest competition for jobs.  If someone takes them, we free up space and cap room.  If they are essentially cut from the worst team in the nhl the past 3 years, we couldn't trade them for anything anyway and should be happy to be rid of them.

 

The message should be, show up in the best shape of your life, work your a$$ off and win a job.  Otherwise go back to the minors, junior, college, or europe and try again next year.

 

Markstrom, Horvat, Boeser, Baertschi, Tanev, Edler, Guddy, Stecher, Sutter, Beagle, and Roussel are the only sure things to make the nhl roster and even some of those should be looking over their shoulder for playing time.

[Rob_Zepp]

35 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said:

If Hutton, MDZ, Gagner, Pouliot, Leipsic, Motte, Nilsson, etc... show up and get beat out by Petersson, Dahlen, Gaudette, Hughes, Juolevi, Lind, Goldobin, or even Palmu, then expose them to waivers and hope that someone comes and gets them.  We need to have a straight up honest competition for jobs.  If someone takes them, we free up space and cap room.  If they are essentially cut from the worst team in the nhl the past 3 years, we couldn't trade them for anything anyway and should be happy to be rid of them.

 

The message should be, show up in the best shape of your life, work your a$$ off and win a job.  Otherwise go back to the minors, junior, college, or europe and try again next year.

 

Markstrom, Horvat, Boeser, Baertschi, Tanev, Edler, Guddy, Stecher, Sutter, Beagle, and Roussel are the only sure things to make the nhl roster and even some of those should be looking over their shoulder for playing time.

[Hairy Kneel]

[IBatch]

Good thread by OP, there is definitely a log-jam of guys fighting for spots even without adding rookies, some will have to go down to Utica, others possibly waived, but I trust management will choose wisely and  don't think we need to worry if we waive guys and they get picked up.  Like others have mentioned every team is doing the same and the chances of someone getting picked up is slim to none.  I'd like to give Goldobin more time, he's already proven he can be a PPG player in the AHL, another summer of training just might be what he needs to get there, but also realize that at some point we need to try someone else if he's not producing.  Gaunce is redundant, we need scoring more than we need 3/4 line guys that are good at keeping the puck away and it wouldn't be the end of the world if he was waived picked up.  

 

Leipsic and Motte need a look the same as Goldobin, Gaudette can start in Utica and be an injury call-up, and I'd trade one of Bear or Granlund (or both), later in the season when a rookie shows he deserves to stay.  Sutter maybe too.

[Gaudette Celly]

12 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Does anyone else see it this way, does anyone else have these concerns?

Nope.

 

The kids were eventually going to come in and take jobs.  That starts this year.

[wildcam]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Good thread by OP, there is definitely a log-jam of guys fighting for spots even without adding rookies, some will have to go down to Utica, others possibly waived, but I trust management will choose wisely and  don't think we need to worry if we waive guys and they get picked up.  Like others have mentioned every team is doing the same and the chances of someone getting picked up is slim to none.  I'd like to give Goldobin more time, he's already proven he can be a PPG player in the AHL, another summer of training just might be what he needs to get there, but also realize that at some point we need to try someone else if he's not producing.  Gaunce is redundant, we need scoring more than we need 3/4 line guys that are good at keeping the puck away and it wouldn't be the end of the world if he was waived picked up.  

 

Leipsic and Motte need a look the same as Goldobin, Gaudette can start in Utica and be an injury call-up, and I'd trade one of Bear or Granlund (or both), later in the season when a rookie shows he deserves to stay.  Sutter maybe too.

I would hate to lose Goldobin on waivers as he has talent and should be worth a 3rd or 4th rounder.. 

I really thing Canucks will be involved in some trades before the season starts..

After the July 1-3 free agent signings the next 5 weeks can slow down..Things will pick up by  mid August again..Management teams have been super busy preparing for draft week and then right after free agency..

Summer holidays phones are still close by..

 

I really thing Quinn Hughes will be signed before August 1st...

[vannuck59]

17 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I can remember a Poster, posting 2 separate line-ups, one with all our current players and one with our prospects (there looked to about 23 players on each roster). It looked fantastic, and something well worth waiting for. I am curious to see how Benning manages this intriguing problem, without giving veteran players away.

 

Many on CDC see our team this year starting with Hughes, Juolevi. Pettersson and Gaudette, which if they are all dominating their piers, would be most acceptable. However, Benning suffers from a numbers game at this present time, having 23 signed players at this moment, plus Stecher and Virtanen, which equal 25...…...

 

My thoughts stem around that number, and the urgency or lack of, that Benning should have going into the present season. The number is 25 but needs to be at 23 before the first game of the season. Now Benning has done a great job of creating depth, and I have no argument with his moves in this regards, over the past 3 years,.....,,again it is exciting to see such potential lurking in all corners of our franchise. For a bottom team, this is exactly what you want. Now it is important to recognize, that Dorsett is still part of Bennings 25, as it is my understanding he will be part of the starting 23 before the first game (He will then be placed on LTIR for the final year of his contract)

 

So even with the 25 needing to be paired down to 23  for opening day, Benning should be moving waiver exempt players down to Utica......who will this be? Well, Gaudette for one, which drops it to 24 players and 1 more needing to be sent down. So I can see a paper transfer of Boeser, who is also waiver exempt as a likely move, so that he does not loose anyone of significance to waivers. Just for clarification regarding Boeser, he will not step on a plane and will be the Canucks line-up for the opening game.(this is only to get to the 23 player maximum, without loosing a player to waivers)

 

Now this waiver Business, gives me a little concern, because I "think" Motte, Goldobin, MacEwen, McEneny and Sautner are waiver eligible and could possibly be picked up. Is that a major loose...no, but it does take away from the whole, and in the case of Goldobin, he is a good asset you would not like to see leave for nothing.

 

This leads me to the expectation of our prospects that may break onto the Canucks this year, and how this affects the rule of 23 and the other veterans, if the rookies were brought up at the beginning of the year. You see, I don't think there will be a market for any of our dislodged veteran players immediately prior to the start of the season, so I wonder if Benning will actually not keep all the prospects, including Pettersson, Gaudette, Juolevi, Hughes, and Demko on the farm, until there is a demand for the players who would be dislodged by any promotion of top 5 prospects. It is what I would do.

 

I bring this up to discuss the disappointment of CDC, if this occurs, and the question of which veteran players will be dislodged by our prospects, if this was to occur. I also feel that Benning may leave them down to percolate until injuries occur, and then platoon the rookies in during those times, then slowly move potential dislodged veterans when there is a demand because of injury or the TDL.

 

In the mean time, do you have any concerns of loosing Goldobin, Motte, MacEwen, McEneny or Sautner? Do you see this happening? Do you see Pettersson and Hughes starting the season with the Canucks (not do you want them to, but will they?)…..((I want them to...just don't see it happening)

 

Does anyone else see it this way, does anyone else have these concerns? (it is a nice problem)

 

I look forward to hearing your thoughts...…………...

Time to Fish or cut bait , at  least 2 players will be on IR and maybe a trade coming up to clear room. Hughes will go to college , One of Goldobin and Sautner will be traded in a package  For a right handed D man prospect. MacEwen doesn't have to clear and McEneny  makes the big club.

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, wildcam said:

I would hate to lose Goldobin on waivers as he has talent and should be worth a 3rd or 4th rounder.. 

I really thing Canucks will be involved in some trades before the season starts..

After the July 1-3 free agent signings the next 5 weeks can slow down..Things will pick up by  mid August again..Management teams have been super busy preparing for draft week and then right after free agency..

Summer holidays phones are still close by..

 

I really thing Quinn Hughes will be signed before August 1st...

Me too and we will sign Quinn, he wants to go pro right away so it's coming.

 

Goldobin is either going to sink or swim in the NHL this year, I just hope he's given some opportunity on a scoring line (again) before management cuts bait, which if they did would likely be the following year and only because someone else deserves a shot and he isn't showing any improvement.  I think he's got something and hope that it comes out so we can trade or even waive a vet if needed.  

[wildcam]

11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Me too and we will sign Quinn, he wants to go pro right away so it's coming.

 

Goldobin is either going to sink or swim in the NHL this year, I just hope he's given some opportunity on a scoring line (again) before management cuts bait, which if they did would likely be the following year and only because someone else deserves a shot and he isn't showing any improvement.  I think he's got something and hope that it comes out so we can trade or even waive a vet if needed.  

I agree 100%, he has goal scorers hands and gets into the right spots offensively...I hope Goldy is given that opportunity and then takes the moment something like Naslund did........

[Ghostsof1915]

14 hours ago, Schmautzie said:

Igor Larionov!

That was an issue with Sovintersport, Larionov didn't want them getting money from his salary so he went to play in Switzerland for a year. 

When he returned to the NHL I assume he was a UFA. There was an ex-Canuck that Florida let go on the waiver wire. Grabner.