[Discussion] Who will be at the bottom of the League

[-AJ-]

If Price plays poorly, the Canadiens will be near the bottom. If Ottawa loses Karlsson they too will be in the bottom three. Aside from that, I think the Canucks might be bottom three.

[Toews]

Somewhere some Montreal fan is thinking Pacioretty+ can fetch the Canuck unprotected 1st because Benning is "desperate*.

[DrJockitch]

If Price plays like Price, Montreal won't be bottom three.

NYI isn't as bad as projected if Lehner is decent.  If he is like last year they are bad.  They have one of the best groups of young players in the league.  NYR may be worse then them this year but like Montreal at least have goal tending.

Phoenix should be better this year, they may be fighting for playoffs.

Ott could be really, really bad.

Buffalo keeps threatening to improve but never do.

We are probably in bottom 3 of league, but I think will see some encouraging signs.

There is always a surprise, someone who plummets like a stone, maybe Anaheim, I would have said STL but they look to have made some good moves.  Det+Cal may be a candidates.

West is tough, even the bad teams look like they should be tough.  Oilers, Flames, Blackhawks, Stars, Blues all looked like they should have been playoff teams at the beginning of last year.  In the East, it is hard to see any teams that would drop out of the playoffs, maybe CBJ especially if they loose Panarin.  Would be fun to watch Torts loosing it again.  Devils will be in tough again with Florida.

[skolozsy2]

I'm hoping my Blackhawks wet the bed and score a high draft pick.

 

They already missed out on any big free agents (other than Kunitz???), missed the playoffs last season, made little if any improvements this year, counting on a lot of young talent to produce, and Crawford is still a HUGE question mark. Any, and I mean ANY injury to a top end player this season and the Hawks are f***ed with a capital "F"!

[RonMexico]

9 minutes ago, skolozsy2 said:

I'm hoping my Blackhawks wet the bed and score a high draft pick.

 

They already missed out on any big free agents (other than Kunitz???), missed the playoffs last season, made little if any improvements this year, counting on a lot of young talent to produce, and Crawford is still a HUGE question mark. Any, and I mean ANY injury to a top end player this season and the Hawks are f***ed with a capital "F"!

With the way top end players eat up significant chunks of cap room, almost every team is hosed if 1 or 2 of their top end players goes down for any period of time. Personally I hope the Blackhawks either just make or miss the playoffs and end up with a middling pick. They put themselves in this position by handing out big fat extensions to their top players and now ultimately are paying the price. The fact that a team like the Coyotes threw them a bone and relived them of Hossa's salary makes me wish more ill will upon them.

[vannuck59]

2 hours ago, BCNate said:

If you were Jim Benning, would you trade our first for a soon to be 29 YO often injured top top pairing dman who is a UFA in 2 years, fringe top 6 forward, and an undisclosed pick?

Hmmmm,  Tanev would be their second best d-man, Baertschi becomes their second best left winger. The conditional pick is for the lottery pick , a first(2020) for the first overall reduced to a second if they are picking 2nd  or  3rd .They don't know where they are going to pick could be 1 to 4th. The fan base wants to win now throw in Goldobin to sweeten the pot . 

[BCNate]

6 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

Hmmmm,  Tanev would be their second best d-man, Baertschi becomes their second best left winger. The conditional pick is for the lottery pick , a first(2020) for the first overall reduced to a second if they are picking 2nd  or  3rd .They don't know where they are going to pick could be 1 to 4th. The fan base wants to win now throw in Goldobin to sweeten the pot . 

But, would you then trade our first this year for a 28 YO oft injured #2 Dman, 2nd line winger, 2020 2nd, and a potential waiver wire forward?  Not a chance any rebuilding team makes a deal like that.  

 

To get one of the teams you listed's first, it starts with An elite young talent: Boeser, Hughes, or Pettersson, which is why it won't happen.  

[qwijibo]

18 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

Hmmmm,  Tanev would be their second best d-man, Baertschi becomes their second best left winger. The conditional pick is for the lottery pick , a first(2020) for the first overall reduced to a second if they are picking 2nd  or  3rd .They don't know where they are going to pick could be 1 to 4th. The fan base wants to win now throw in Goldobin to sweeten the pot . 

I’d debate your statement about Tanev. But I’ll let it stand for now.  Baertschi would NOT be the second best LW. Pacioretty and Byron are both better, He’s probably on par with Lehkonen and Hudon.  Either way, nothing you’ve suggested fill either of their primary needs (top 2 centre and LHS puck moving D) 

 

 

[IBatch]

I think the bottom five won't be the usual suspects and there will be at least two surprises.  Yes OTT looks to be sinking below the bottom, especially if Karlsson leaves early in the season (if not before).   I think we will see some movement with ARI, BUF or even Vancouver, one or two of the regular bottom feeders will move up the same way NJ and COL did last year, and two regularly good/decent teams will have off years and end up a lottery team with good odds.  MTL could bounce right on back with good years from Price and Weber (who they missed last year when he was out).  CAR is making a good case to repeat, who knows if Barzal can avoid a sophomore slump without Tavares helping the quality of competition etc etc. 

[vannuck59]

35 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

I’d debate your statement about Tanev. But I’ll let it stand for now.  Baertschi would NOT be the second best LW. Pacioretty and Byron are both better, He’s probably on par with Lehkonen and Hudon.  Either way, nothing you’ve suggested fill either of their primary needs (top 2 centre and LHS puck moving D) 

 

 

Pacioretty they are running out of town, and Byron would be debatable on whose better. There is always the case that Jack would not sign with them so who knows anyway kick the tires see whats out there a deal could be made just got to see what it would take . We got the Sedin's, why not the Hughes brothers you got to think out of the box. 

[qwijibo]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I think the bottom five won't be the usual suspects and there will be at least two surprises.  Yes OTT looks to be sinking below the bottom, especially if Karlsson leaves early in the season (if not before).   I think we will see some movement with ARI, BUF or even Vancouver, one or two of the regular bottom feeders will move up the same way NJ and COL did last year, and two regularly good/decent teams will have off years and end up a lottery team with good odds.  MTL could bounce right on back with good years from Price and Weber (who they missed last year when he was out).  CAR is making a good case to repeat, who knows if Barzal can avoid a sophomore slump without Tavares helping the quality of competition etc etc. 

Weber is out until December after having knee surgery two weeks ago.  He will have missed an entire year of hockey by the time get gets back.  Montreal will likely be a lottery team again unless Price can carry the weight for the entire season.  Especially if they end up getting futures in a Pacioretty trade 

[qwijibo]

7 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

Pacioretty they are running out of town, and Byron would be debatable on whose better. There is always the case that Jack would not sign with them so who knows anyway kick the tires see whats out there a deal could be made just got to see what it would take . We got the Sedin's, why not the Hughes brothers you got to think out of the box. 

Regardless. Until Pacioretty is moved and you know the return you can speculate on the strength or weakness of the LW position.  Either way, I doubt there’s a GM in the league that’s desperate to pick up Baertschi 

 

 You aren’t offering anything of equal value to a chance at the exact piece they need in Hughes. It’s spare parts for a likely lottery pick.  Suggesting Hughes wouldn’t sign in Montreal if drafted by them is possibly the dumbest arguement you could make to justify your trade suggestion 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, skolozsy2 said:

I'm hoping my Blackhawks wet the bed and score a high draft pick.

 

They already missed out on any big free agents (other than Kunitz???), missed the playoffs last season, made little if any improvements this year, counting on a lot of young talent to produce, and Crawford is still a HUGE question mark. Any, and I mean ANY injury to a top end player this season and the Hawks are f***ed with a capital "F"!

Nothing personal but I hope they have entered the realm of mediocrity/suckatory  thanks to the 20 million to Toews and Kane, the Seabrook anchor and a goalie who can play but only 40 games a year including playoffs.  Keith is a warrior but even his stamina  won't last until his contract is over.    They could end up with an even higher pick than last year, and again the following year, but they won't win with their overpaid and mostly "stale core".   I thought they'd be angry after their brooming  and light it up, at least Kane is still playing like he's in his prime still, the rest not so much at all.   Going to be a long, long, long very long time before they win another cup.   Keith suck too BTW, never forgive him for his elbow.

[vannuck59]

1 minute ago, qwijibo said:

Regardless. Until Pacioretty is moved and you know the return you can speculate on the strength or weakness of the LW position.  Either way, I doubt there’s a GM in the league that’s desperate to pick up Baertschi 

 

 You aren’t offering anything of equal value to a chance at the exact piece they need in Hughes. It’s spare parts for a likely lottery pick.  Suggesting Hughes wouldn’t sign in Montreal if drafted by them is possibly the dumbest arguement you could make to justify your trade suggestion 

Thanks for the input ,GMs do dumb things Just have to find one Dumb enough, Montreal, Ottawa  fit the bill. A deal is there what would it take. move the parts around and see what happens.

[qwijibo]

Just now, vannuck59 said:

Thanks for the input ,GMs do dumb things Just have to find one Dumb enough, Montreal, Ottawa  fit the bill. A deal is there what would it take. move the parts around and see what happens.

You can’t expect to get a top pick without offering something substantial in return. Spare parts isn’t  going to do it.  If you want a top 3 pick expect include one of Vancouver’s “untouchable” assets  

[TheGuardian_]

A little early to be too accurate but I don't see Vancouver stepping forward the first year without the Sedins as a comforter. 150 points is just too much to overcome for marked improvement even if the rest improve by 10%, which is a lot.

 

As far as trading for the pick, with no guarantee's it is a chance, if it was a guarantee for Hughes, if he is that good then, then it becomes a matter of how good is he, if he is that much better or equal to Mathews then any player on the team, Horvat, Boeser or combination of either with a dman and later round pick thrown in. Even if Pettersson is great why not have a great center to play with.

 

team ranking, I don't think the Yotes will be that bad this year, neither will Buffalo, Carolina, Bettman's buddies old team needs super star so they will be near the bottom, Montreal will not want to waste Price and Weber's remaining years

[vannuck59]

13 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

You can’t expect to get a top pick without offering something substantial in return. Spare parts isn’t  going to do it.  If you want a top 3 pick expect include one of Vancouver’s “untouchable” assets  

Ok Horvat strait up

[higgyfan]

2 hours ago, skolozsy2 said:

I'm hoping my Blackhawks wet the bed and score a high draft pick.

 

They already missed out on any big free agents (other than Kunitz???), missed the playoffs last season, made little if any improvements this year, counting on a lot of young talent to produce, and Crawford is still a HUGE question mark. Any, and I mean ANY injury to a top end player this season and the Hawks are f***ed with a capital "F"!

I get the sense that they are making the same mistake that the Nucks made with the notion that the initial core can make another run at the Stanley Cup.  Easy idea to come up with, as the core are still pretty good, but the big problem is the lack of depth.  And Crawford is a big concern, for sure.

[qwijibo]

6 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

Ok Horvat strait up

I don’t know that they take Horvat straight up.  But it certainly gets them to the table. He’s a young, cost controlled top 6 C. Which certainly addresses one of their needs.  It depends on just highly they regard him in relationship to what they think they can get in the draft in the top few positions.  

 

The question then becomes “Why does Vancouver  do this?”  There’s no guarantee that the pick becomes 1st overall. Take Horvat out of the Vancouver  lineup and they’re very thin in the way of top centres.  That makes Sutter their top C.  I like Sutter but he’s ideally a very good 3C. So unless the pick wins the lottery you’ve just crippled the organization.  Pettersson COULD be a top C. But unless I misunderstand he excelled this past season as a winger. It’s an exceptionally rare player that can step into a top 2C spot In the NHL and excell 

[skolozsy2]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Nothing personal but I hope they have entered the realm of mediocrity/suckatory  thanks to the 20 million to Toews and Kane, the Seabrook anchor and a goalie who can play but only 40 games a year including playoffs.  Keith is a warrior but even his stamina  won't last until his contract is over.    They could end up with an even higher pick than last year, and again the following year, but they won't win with their overpaid and mostly "stale core".   I thought they'd be angry after their brooming  and light it up, at least Kane is still playing like he's in his prime still, the rest not so much at all.   Going to be a long, long, long very long time before they win another cup.   Keith suck too BTW, never forgive him for his elbow.

No worries, no offense taken.

 

Crawford has slowly become the Hawks version of Chris Tanev.  Great player, just unfortunately made of egg shells. 

 

Toews honestly looks like a completely different player...he loses puck battles, easily knocked off his feet lately, doesn't drive the net like before.  Not sure what happened, but I'm worried the concussions are taking their toll.

 

Seabrook's contract was just plain nuts.  The guy was already showing the hard miles and was given 4 years too long on that contract.

 

You're right, could be a long road back.  Or just one short trek to Jack Hughes, who knows?