Is the Current Ownership Failing this Team?

[Where'd Luongo?]

47 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

No, they wouldn't because Edler has a NTC he won't waive and the Sedin's had a NMC they would be unwilling to waive. 

All of those players could have been moved. 

[Watchincanucks]

Yes ownership and management are failing the team. Linden was hired to steer the direction of the team. When his input was disregarded, and was never given the opportunity to implement his vision for the team, it shows ineptitude at the top. You have to trust your own hires, if you lose confidence you fire them, not say amicably decided to part ways. Accountability and transparency are important. You don’t say publicly we are going to build through the draft then become the most active team in free agency year after year. You certainly don’t build your team starting with your 4th line. You give money to your best players and fill out with cheap young players to learn the game with limited minutes playing against lesser competition ie. other 4th line players. If Jay Beagle is getting matched against other teams top players he will be near the top of team in minutes played, do we really want Jay Beagle as second line centre? Cause his ice time will be in that range. Linden could no longer support this regime and I don’t blame him. He sends 1 message and then the team does the opposite.

[UFCanuck]

Lafontaine in Buffalo, Ron Francis in Carolina, Brett Hull in Dallas etc. 

 

Linden was a great hire in the beginning to calm the fan-base. But Local Legends usually have a short shelf life in this league.

[Odjick_fan]

Lmfao. Holy crap. I didn’t know the owner and management were the real hockey players on this team. 

 

No one can jus watch hockey anymore. Gotta make s h i t up or listen to TO media garbage. 

 

It’s sunny and nice outside. Have a family bbq or take yer kids to the park. Come back in October and watch hockey instead of reading weasel TO media crap. Toronto sun is Canada’s version of national inquirer 

[bree2]

Aquilini is a passionate owner who happens to be a super fan. he spends to the cap every year.  he is allowed to ask questions! so garbage Toronto sun guy who hasn't a clue  on what the Canucks are about spews this crap and some actually believe it. I was on sportsnet earlier and some on there seem to think they know more than Aquilini, Benning  and Green.  but yet they haven't applied for any of those jobs. I agree with Odjick_ fan  let the ones in charge  do their job. and enjoy the summer

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

All of those players could have been moved. 

Two had NMC and one has a NTC,  please explain how/where you would move them if they said "no"

[-DLC-]

29 minutes ago, Odjick_fan said:

It’s sunny and nice outside. Have a family bbq or take yer kids to the park. Come back in October and watch hockey instead of reading weasel TO media crap. Toronto sun is Canada’s version of national inquirer 

Hey hey hey now...none of that.  Please review the my rules:

 

Quote

 

[canuck73_3]

2 hours ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

All of those players could have been moved. 

Wrong, Edler and the Sedin’s have said they have NO interest in waiving their clauses ergo, they can not be moved...

[appleboy]

They say they are huge hockey fans. They say that their dream is to bring a cup here. They are willing to spend money. All good points.

There has been tons of rumors about them meddling in management decisions. So many that it is likely true. It is their money so that's their right 

I would hope that they as long term fans can see what most fans realize . This club is not ready to compete for a playoff spot let alone the cup. Linden improved the teams draft 10 fold and the future is getting brighter. 

What they should do is limit Jim's ability to make trades and just sit back and let this club build through the draft for a few years. Why hire a new President when you know your not going to let him have full control. Once we have enough depth then can Jim and bring in someone who can take the club to the next level.

[Qwags]

3 hours ago, Watchincanucks said:

Yes ownership and management are failing the team. Linden was hired to steer the direction of the team. When his input was disregarded, and was never given the opportunity to implement his vision for the team, it shows ineptitude at the top. You have to trust your own hires, if you lose confidence you fire them, not say amicably decided to part ways. Accountability and transparency are important. You don’t say publicly we are going to build through the draft then become the most active team in free agency year after year. You certainly don’t build your team starting with your 4th line. You give money to your best players and fill out with cheap young players to learn the game with limited minutes playing against lesser competition ie. other 4th line players. If Jay Beagle is getting matched against other teams top players he will be near the top of team in minutes played, do we really want Jay Beagle as second line centre? Cause his ice time will be in that range. Linden could no longer support this regime and I don’t blame him. He sends 1 message and then the team does the opposite.

Beagle and Sutter will be taking the majority of the defensive zone draws. The offense will (hopefully) be provided by the youth.

 

As we're a bottom 10 team, it is more than likely we'll be in our defensive zone more often than not. Hence, the signing of Beagle.

[King Heffy]

3 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Friend of a friend is not a valid source. 

[Attila Umbrus]

30 minutes ago, Qwags said:

Beagle and Sutter will be taking the majority of the defensive zone draws. The offense will (hopefully) be provided by the youth.

 

As we're a bottom 10 team, it is more than likely we'll be in our defensive zone more often than not. Hence, the signing of Beagle.

....sounds like his "corsi" is gonna get hurt...lol. Sutter and Beagle defending in our D-zone keeps my mind at ease. I think it's a good recipe for the kids to get out and show everyone what they got. Benning and Co. have created a very safe environment for the kids to come out and do what they do. It will give them time to learn the defensive side of the game while getting prime offensive time. This could turn out to be a very smart move that ends up molding our current youth into very complete players.

[mikeyman109]

3 hours ago, Watchincanucks said:

Yes ownership and management are failing the team. Linden was hired to steer the direction of the team. When his input was disregarded, and was never given the opportunity to implement his vision for the team, it shows ineptitude at the top. You have to trust your own hires, if you lose confidence you fire them, not say amicably decided to part ways. Accountability and transparency are important. You don’t say publicly we are going to build through the draft then become the most active team in free agency year after year. You certainly don’t build  your team starting with your 4th line. You give money to your best players and fill out with cheap young players to learn the game with limited minutes playing against lesser competition ie. other 4th line players. If Jay Beagle is getting matched against other teams top players he will be near the top of team in minutes played, do we really want Jay Beagle as second line centre? Cause his ice time will be in that range. Linden could no longer support this regime and I don’t blame him. He sends 1 message and then the team does the opposite.

Bolded

You simply have not been paying attention have you.

First off let me address the free agent signings, the players Benning did this summer. They were signed to protect, surround the type of players you are asking him to sign in Free agency that we have coming up in our prospects,

We tried going out signing a scoring winger to play with  the Sedins. How did that work out? Why would we waste cap dollars on players to take away spots from players we have coming in the system?

By the way none of the high end free agents were going to come here to play on a losing team that is 4 years from being ready to compete for the cup. They want to win a cup now. They will get paid wherever they go ala Tavares.

 

As for Jay Beagle, Antoine Rousse and Tim Schaller , they are the types of players we do not have coming up in our pool. They are the types of character players you sign in Free agency as they are most likely not to disappoint you a'la Eriksson. We are not expecting them to score 30 goals this year. They are there to play defensive hockey, something we needed drastically last season

 

As for the point you are totally missing the players we expect to provide offense are Horvat Boeser Baertschi, Petterson, and then any two of the prospects that may be ready,Virtanen Dahlen, Lind, Gaudette, Palmu et al. Sutter will be given a chance to play offense unless we figure that Petterson is ready to do that. You need all kinds of players to win and win consistently. The three he signed this summer give us more push back. Man I know the difference between 2011 and 2014 was a bit of Torres and Lapierre. Say what you will about Bennings trades , he is building a total team not just top 6 forwards.

Now if you want to complain about the D , well I will listen but the forwards are going to be fine

[MJDDawg]

2 hours ago, bree2 said:

Aquilini is a passionate owner who happens to be a super fan. he spends to the cap every year.  he is allowed to ask questions! so garbage Toronto sun guy who hasn't a clue  on what the Canucks are about spews this crap and some actually believe it. I was on sportsnet earlier and some on there seem to think they know more than Aquilini, Benning  and Green.  but yet they haven't applied for any of those jobs. I agree with Odjick_ fan  let the ones in charge  do their job. and enjoy the summer

There's more than enough history with this ownership group to believe their unnecessary micro-management of team management over the years has hurt this team. 

 

Jerry Jones is also a passionate owner and super fan who spends big every year, but outside of 3 Superbowl's won just after he bought the team that were a result of trades made by Bobby Ackles and Jimmy Johnson (whom he unceremoniously fired),  the Cowboys haven't been back to the big game in 23 years. 

 

Coincidence?  I think not. 

[Attila Umbrus]

20 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

As for the point you are totally missing the players we expect to provide offense are Horvat Boeser Baertschi, Petterson, and then any two of the prospects that may be ready,Virtanen Dahlen, Lind, Gaudette, Palmu et al. Sutter will be given a chance to play offense unless we figure that Petterson is ready to do that. You need all kinds of players to win and win consistently. The three he signed this summer give us more push back. Man I know the difference between 2011 and 2014 was a bit of Torres and Lapierre. Say what you will about Bennings trades , he is building a total team not just top 6 forwards.

Now if you want to complain about the D , well I will listen but the forwards are going to be fine

 

Nailed it, we've been missing Lappy, Torres, Malholtra type players for a while now. Pretty much since then we haven't been able to stabilize the bottom end of our roster. Now we have.

 

Our defense i'm quite okay with. I really love the Edler and Guddy pairing, they caught my eye as a pair in the preseason last year...not sure why it took till the end of the season to put them together again. MDZ and Tanev could also be a good pairing in the sense that MDZ could really let off the chains a bit and get into more offensive rushes, could really see MDZ having a solid season with Tanev. Upping his value come trade dead line. A mentally ready/fit Hutton will really round out our bottom end on defense, along with Stetcher...who will be solid for us once again this season. That leaves Pouliot and Biega and 7/8. Not bad really. My dark horse is Juolevi, if he comes to camp and steals the show I don't know how you don't try to keep him on your opening day roster.

 

Also, I will go out on a limb and say Marky will have a great year as well. Overall his season last year was not bad at all, just some consistency issues here and there. Which if he cleans up will really solidfy our team.

 

Long story short, we could surprise some people...but i'm an annoyingly positive person...

[canucksnihilist]

failing this team?

 

depends on your definition.

 

If you mean failing the team by signing bottom 6 UFAs and taking roster spots away from young players that could probably play in the NHL this coming season, then yes they are failing the team.

 

If you mean failing the team by trying to get the team close to a wild-card spot and make the team competitive NOW so that they can have people paying to buy tickets to the team, then no they aren't failing the team at all.

 

the sun will shine tomorrow no matter what happens.  some will say that the team is making a mistake by not doing a real full rebuild (which they obviously are not doing - they don't use their cap space to take on contracts in order to get extra draft picks, etc etc.  I've said this before) - that they team is going to never be a real contender.  And they might be right.  But I'm more of the mind that all it takes to be a contender is to get LUCKY.  and I don't mean winning the lottery.  No matter what the management tries to do on any team, they just have to get lucky - players they draft have to work out, they have to make the right trades that look like steals, and the right mix and chemistry has to be there.  Things have to fall into place.  And you don't need a complete rebuild in order for that to happen.  Look at Vegas, they got lucky and Florida basically gave them a whole first line, and they had a good mix and enough skill and great coaching - and they were a huge success story.

 

Now, I do believe that a full rebuild offers the best chance at competing for a longer period of time and to compete more consistently over time.  But just because the team can't do that (they need to sell tickets people... and don't cry to hard about it, as if they don't the team will probably move to Seattle or some other place, and the owners can realize their gains from the increase in value of the franchise.  Maybe this is a reach, but hey business is business and half a billion dollars is hard to say no to...  or they could say no to half a billion and just lose money every year and see their franchise value decline) - just because the team can't do that it doesn't mean that the team won't compete.  Hell for all we know the decisions made just luckily happen to be the best ones to leave the team in a better position in 3 years (although having 3 anchors on contract at that time seems dumb, but hey, you never know!  Maybe we don't need cap space at all for some reason).

 

Look at Washington.  They rebuilt a long time ago.  But it was only a retool they made in the last few years (and Ovechkin becoming a 2 way player helped, but that wouldn't have done it alone) that made them actually a real contender for the cup.  

 

so there is no way to say if the ownership (read plan) is failing or not.  Could they do better?  A lot of people think so.  But if the team stays in Van then we can consider them to have succeeded.  The team will have enough young players to compete in 3-5 years for sure.  It will be fun again.  But whether in 5-10 years we can win a cup?  we have to get lucky to do it.  Everything needs to fall into place and almost all of it is beyond the managements control - all they can control is actions that they can guess might have the best outcome.  At least we are drafting better than we ever have!  that is reason for optimism alone!

 

 

[mikeyman109]

1 minute ago, Attila Umbrus said:

 

Nailed it, we've been missing Lappy, Torres, Malholtra type players for a while now. Pretty much since then we haven't been able to stabilize the bottom end of our roster. Now we have.

 

Our defense i'm quitely okay with. I really love the Edler and Guddy pairing, they caught my eye as a pair in the preseason last year...not sure why it took till the end of the season to put them together again. MDZ and Tanev could also be a good pairing in the sense that MDZ could really let off the chains a bit and get into more offensive rushes, could really see MDZ having a solid season with Tanev. Upping his value come trade dead line. A mentally ready/fit Hutton will really round out our bottom end on defense, along with Stetcher...who will be solid for us once again this season. That leaves Pouliot and Biega and 7/8. Not bad really. My dark horse is Juolevi, if he comes to camp and steals the show I don't know how you don't try to keep him on your opening day roster.

 

Also, I will go out on a limb and say Marky will have a great year as well. Overall his season last year was not bad at all, just some consistency issues here and there. Which if he cleans up will really solidfy our team.

 

Long story short, we could surprise some people...but i'm an annoyingly positive person...

There is no doubt in my mind that the addition of Beagle and Roussel help our defensive side of the game. They will help the penalty kill also. Markstrom and Nillson will need to have a better year if we are to be competitive. If we are healthy we have a decent lineup. Where we will still suck and actually suck pretty bad is on the back end. I dont share your optimism of Edler Guddy. They were ok last year but they were not great. MDZ is a 78 on most good teams and Stecher has played ok with the puck but struggles to defend against the bigger forwards in the west.

We need to see what Juolevi can do this year. We are desperate for D men and thats why JB drafted Hughes and Woo. This crop will not get it done. If and thats a big IF they can stay healthy, the Defense will be better than last season., but they are not going to be healthy, as Tanev, Gudbranson cannot stay healthy and Edler well my opinion of him is he is done. Cant find pucks in his feet anymore. cant shoot the puck on the Power play, cant pass to Boeser for some reason on the power play , and seems to have lost his vigor to play the game. again thats my opinion of what i see of him.

[Attila Umbrus]

1 minute ago, canucksnihilist said:

Look at Vegas, they got lucky and Florida basically gave them a whole first line, and they had a good mix and enough skill and great coaching - and they were a huge success story.

 

 

 

Haha, I laugh every time I think of Florida getting fleeced by Vegas. What were they thinking!? Minnesota is in the same boat, Haula and Tuch?? ouch!

[Watchincanucks]

24 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

Bolded

You simply have not been paying attention have you.

First off let me address the free agent signings, the players Benning did this summer. They were signed to protect, surround the type of players you are asking him to sign in Free agency that we have coming up in our prospects,

We tried going out signing a scoring winger to play with  the Sedins. How did that work out? Why would we waste cap dollars on players to take away spots from players we have coming in the system?

By the way none of the high end free agents were going to come here to play on a losing team that is 4 years from being ready to compete for the cup. They want to win a cup now. They will get paid wherever they go ala Tavares.

 

As for Jay Beagle, Antoine Rousse and Tim Schaller , they are the types of players we do not have coming up in our pool. They are the types of character players you sign in Free agency as they are most likely not to disappoint you a'la Eriksson. We are not expecting them to score 30 goals this year. They are there to play defensive hockey, something we needed drastically last season

 

As for the point you are totally missing the players we expect to provide offense are Horvat Boeser Baertschi, Petterson, and then any two of the prospects that may be ready,Virtanen Dahlen, Lind, Gaudette, Palmu et al. Sutter will be given a chance to play offense unless we figure that Petterson is ready to do that. You need all kinds of players to win and win consistently. The three he signed this summer give us more push back. Man I know the difference between 2011 and 2014 was a bit of Torres and Lapierre. Say what you will about Bennings trades , he is building a total team not just top 6 forwards.

Now if you want to complain about the D , well I will listen but the forwards are going to be fine

Yep clearly I’m missing the point. Name 1 other team that went out and spent 8 million and 10 years total for their forth line. There is no rebuild ever that has taken this approach. Benning is counting on young unproven players to provide offence but have not even secured a spot on the team. Benning is reinventing the rebuild, Toronto Boston Colorado and New Jersey put at least 3 rookies in their lineup and made the playoffs and did not need to trade a bunch of vets after preseason to do it. Linden could no longer support the approach they were taking.

[Watchincanucks]

We have been missing speed skill scoring young players. Yes there will be growing pains, but getting youth in is more important than expensive vets. They keep saying build through the draft and end up being the most active teams in free agency.