Is the Current Ownership Failing this Team?

[Gurn]

9 minutes ago, Watchincanucks said:

Riley Nash signed for less term and money, but has higher upside.

Riley signed for less on a better team with less travel. 

[Gollumpus]

On 7/27/2018 at 9:21 AM, NUCKER67 said:

I agree with a lot of what VanGnome had to say.

 

We need to separate Linden: the Canucks player/hero who took the team to the SCF in the 90s, and Linden: the inexperienced executive who seemed to learn on the fly and was out of his element. 

 

I believe Linden was hired as a ploy to engage Canucks fans and entice us to support the team through the rebuild. Not for his great wisdom on how to run an NHL hockey team. Canucks fans can now see the finish line, we're excited with our prospects and the future, Linden's job is done.  

Just a thought here, to stir the pot some on Linden's experience or lack thereof:

 

There are some posters around here who view Shanahan as the be all and end all for a front office guy in hockey, and point to his four to five years of "experience" in the NHL head office. He spent a year and half a vice president of hockey and business development, and was then shuffled over to handing out discipline for another two and half years. I suppose in that time he learned all there was to learn about the business of hockey.

 

Does Linden's time in the NHLPA as both a rep for this team (about 8 years), and about another nine years as the president of that body, count for anything compared to Shanahan's track record?

 

                                                          regards,  G.

[-DLC-]

2 minutes ago, Gollumpus said:

Just a thought here, to stir the pot some on Linden's experience or lack thereof:

 

There are some posters around here who view Shanahan as the be all and end all for a front office guy in hockey, and point to his four to five years of "experience" in the NHL head office. He spent a year and half a vice president of hockey and business development, and was then shuffled over to handing out discipline for another two and half years. I suppose in that time he learned all there was to learn about the business of hockey.

 

Does Linden's time in the NHLPA as both a rep for this team (about 8 years), and about another nine years as the president of that body, count for anything compared to Shanahan's track record?

 

                                                          regards,  G.

Ha, I was thinking the exact same thing!

[Gaudette Celly]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

Benning should have cared. 

 

I guess I'm just from a different era, or read to many Louis Lamour westerns, but to me; my word is important, behind only my family.

 

 

 Edit to add.    I wouldn't have given any of those players other than the twins NTC.

Edler himself put it well -- it's not simply about not being traded, it's about having a say in where you go.

[mikeyman109]

13 hours ago, Watchincanucks said:

Well Goldobin Leipsic Baertschi Granlund Horvat Boeser Virtanen Sutter Gagner Eriksson Beagle Schaller Roussel, and that’s 13 forwards. Still no Pettersson Gaudette Dahlen which I would love to see all 3 make the team. If they do that means we lose Goldobin or Leipsic on waivers or we are left waiting for Benning to trade a vet, which is not ideal imo. I would rather see a year of Goldobin in the nhl, show what he can do, than chasing a few more wins with Beagle. Does not matter who makes the team something needs to happen before the season starts at a time Benning will have no leverage, any return will be underwhelming.

Competition between those forwards will make the team better. You continue to miss the point that Gagner and Eriksson may be moved if the kids perform in camp or in the pre season. .Goldobin has had three seasons to show what he can or cant do. He has offensive skills but is not willing to work on the defensive side of his game and has been passed by a few players starting with Boeser.basically the only players in the list you have that make the 13 for sure are Horvat Boeser Sutter Baertschi Virtanen Beagle, Roussel. The others have to compete for the 6 spots left. Not none, not two,6

But you keep spinning it your way.Most here see competition as a good thing. but i move on.

[canucksnihilist]

11 hours ago, EdgarM said:

I believe you are not seeing it as a GM who is making additions to his team via FA's and I believe you are underestimating what the FA's are going to bring to the table.

JB had a limited amount of FA's to pick from and probably a smaller list who were actually agreeing to talk to him. I believe he was looking for a veteran presence who can skate, play defensively and have a little push back. Something our past veterans were missing. 

Yes Gaudette may be that type player eventually but I think you are a bit premature in thinking he is ready to tackle that role right off the bat. Who knows he may surprise and JB trades Beagle or Sutter to a contender at the deadline. Nothing is written in stone.

There is a lot of questions to answer, especially when the season hasn't even started, but I believe they will answer themselves as the season progresses.

How is Gaudette going to surprise if he isn’t on the team?  You mean in 3/4 years when there is an opening?

 

or is this the traditional “make room with injuries” plan?   So Gaudette is a bust unless beagle or sutter are significantly injured?

 

how would he actually get a chance to play in the NHL and show what he can do - this is a good example, let’s examine it and see how Gaudette might actually make the team.   

 

1. If he outshines Beagle this year at camp he is still sent down.  The team didn’t sign shiny new FAs to not play them.

2. That may or may not be the case next year - although hard to displace a proven vet when you haven’t played an NHL game - to the extent that you have to waive / trade that vet.

3.  Are injuries the only way?  So it’s development by accident as the main plan?

 

I hope I’m missing something but I just don’t understand how it can happen.   What is the actual process?

 

please advise...

[vannuck59]

1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said:

Well Goldobin Leipsic Baertschi Granlund Horvat Boeser Virtanen Sutter Gagner Eriksson Beagle Schaller Roussel, and that’s 13 forwards. Still no Pettersson Gaudette Dahlen which I would love to see all 3 make the team. If they do that means we lose Goldobin or Leipsic on waivers or we are left waiting for Benning to trade a vet, which is not ideal imo. I would rather see a year of Goldobin in the nhl, show what he can do, than chasing a few more wins with Beagle. Does not matter who makes the team something needs to happen before the season starts at a time Benning will have no leverage, any return will be underwhelming.

You need to understand Gagner , Granlund , will be waived to make room. Schaller will be on IR so that makes room for the Kids if needed. Making a trade for a VEt may happen but we shall see I would not sweat it.

[canucksnihilist]

11 hours ago, gurn said:

Riley signed for less on a better team with less travel. 

We overpaid on term for these guys.   jB didn’t even wait until day 2 and wasn’t interested in what the best deal was - he went to the draft knowing what he wanted.

[canucksnihilist]

6 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

You need to understand Gagner , Granlund , will be waived to make room. Schaller will be on IR so that makes room for the Kids if needed. Making a trade for a VEt may happen but we shall see I would not sweat it.

EP has to be given the benefit of the doubt to make it.  You don’t displace a vet by having a good camp.  I mean the vet has to be moved and you can’t get him back.

 

EP has to be gifted a spot to see what he can do.

 

Dahlen and Gaudette have no chance to make the team this year.   We have out new FAs instead, no matter how promising the new young players are.  Maybe next year.  Hope I’m wrong of course!

 

its almost like the team forgot they have these young guys coming.

[vannuck59]

3 minutes ago, canucksnihilist said:

How is Gaudette going to surprise if he isn’t on the team?  You mean in 3/4 years when there is an opening?

 

or is this the traditional “make room with injuries” plan?   So Gaudette is a bust unless beagle or sutter are significantly injured?

 

how would he actually get a chance to play in the NHL and show what he can do - this is a good example, let’s examine it and see how Gaudette might actually make the team.   

 

1. If he outshines Beagle this year at camp he is still sent down.  The team didn’t sign shiny new FAs to not play them.

2. That may or may not be the case next year - although hard to displace a proven vet when you haven’t played an NHL game - to the extent that you have to waive / trade that vet.

3.  Are injuries the only way?  So it’s development by accident as the main plan?

 

I hope I’m missing something but I just don’t understand how it can happen.   What is the actual process?

 

please advise...

Its not going to hurt Gaudette to play in the AHL for a year or 6 months let him dominate at another level first. when he is ready the 3rd or maybe 2nd line center will be waiting. Beagle can also play the wing.

[vannuck59]

2 minutes ago, canucksnihilist said:

EP has to be given the benefit of the doubt to make it.  You don’t displace a vet by having a good camp.  I mean the vet has to be moved and you can’t get him back.

 

EP had to be gifted a spot to see what he can do.

 

Dahlen and Gaudette have no chance to make the team this year.   We have out new FAs instead, no matter how promising the new young players are.  Maybe next year.  Hope I’m wrong of course!

 

its almost like the team forgot they have these young guys coming.

FA,s get waived all the time so don't sweat it. when the kids are ready in they will come.

[canucksnihilist]

10 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

Its not going to hurt Gaudette to play in the AHL for a year or 6 months let him dominate at another level first. when he is ready the 3rd or maybe 2nd line center will be waiting. Beagle can also play the wing.

1: So the answer is that these players can play out of position - I like that answer.

 

2: and how does he make the team next year?  What does that look like?

[canucksnihilist]

8 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

FA,s get waived all the time so don't sweat it. when the kids are ready in they will come.

FAs of any price don’t get waived all the time.  

 

So beagle will be waived?  That’s the plan?  

[stawns]

1 hour ago, canucksnihilist said:

How is Gaudette going to surprise if he isn’t on the team?  You mean in 3/4 years when there is an opening?

 

or is this the traditional “make room with injuries” plan?   So Gaudette is a bust unless beagle or sutter are significantly injured?

 

how would he actually get a chance to play in the NHL and show what he can do - this is a good example, let’s examine it and see how Gaudette might actually make the team.   

 

1. If he outshines Beagle this year at camp he is still sent down.  The team didn’t sign shiny new FAs to not play them.

2. That may or may not be the case next year - although hard to displace a proven vet when you haven’t played an NHL game - to the extent that you have to waive / trade that vet.

3.  Are injuries the only way?  So it’s development by accident as the main plan?

 

I hope I’m missing something but I just don’t understand how it can happen.   What is the actual process?

 

please advise...

Do you seriously think AG is better than Stanley Cup Winner and top 5 faceoff guy Jay Beagle?  C'mon man.

 

AG has the raw tools, but he looked exactly that, raw, last season.  He's still not a lock to even have an NHL career yet.

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, canucksnihilist said:

How is Gaudette going to surprise if he isn’t on the team?  You mean in 3/4 years when there is an opening?

 

or is this the traditional “make room with injuries” plan?   So Gaudette is a bust unless beagle or sutter are significantly injured?

 

how would he actually get a chance to play in the NHL and show what he can do - this is a good example, let’s examine it and see how Gaudette might actually make the team.   

 

1. If he outshines Beagle this year at camp he is still sent down.  The team didn’t sign shiny new FAs to not play them.

2. That may or may not be the case next year - although hard to displace a proven vet when you haven’t played an NHL game - to the extent that you have to waive / trade that vet.

3.  Are injuries the only way?  So it’s development by accident as the main plan?

 

I hope I’m missing something but I just don’t understand how it can happen.   What is the actual process?

 

please advise...

We are not even at camp yet to see where everyone is at. Look how long it has taken Gaunce and to a lesser extent, Virtanen, to show they belong in the NHL. We only seen a small example of what Gaudette can do last year. He did OK but I didn't see any kind of Bo/Boes type of dazzle right off the bat. He is like many of our OTHER young prospects who need to prove themselves worthy of taking a roster spot. Goldobin comes to mind as a similar player that needs to show he belongs or has worked on the areas of his game which needs work to show the coach he is ready.

You are right, it may take an injury or two for him to make the line up, an NHL reality. I would much rather have a Gaudette waiting in the wings compared to a Kaput or a Magma.

If he does not make it out of camp, the coaches will still be able to see his progress in the minors just like every other prospect we have.

 

 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, canucksnihilist said:

EP has to be given the benefit of the doubt to make it.  You don’t displace a vet by having a good camp.  I mean the vet has to be moved and you can’t get him back.

 

EP has to be gifted a spot to see what he can do.

 

Dahlen and Gaudette have no chance to make the team this year.   We have out new FAs instead, no matter how promising the new young players are.  Maybe next year.  Hope I’m wrong of course!

 

its almost like the team forgot they have these young guys coming.

What a load.

 

If either or both Dahlen/Gaudette significantly out play any of Gagner, Granlund, Baer, Goldobin, Leipsic etc, they'll be on the team this season. It might not be right out of camp (though it could be) but they'll be here this year if that happens.

[JeremyCuddles]

1 hour ago, canucksnihilist said:

1: So the answer is that these players can play out of position - I like that answer.

 

2: and how does he make the team next year?  What does that look like?

Pettersson played a full year "out of position". Drafted as a left handed centerman, played primarily wing and wouldn't you know it lit up the SHL.

[Watchincanucks]

2 hours ago, mikeyman109 said:

Competition between those forwards will make the team better. You continue to miss the point that Gagner and Eriksson may be moved if the kids perform in camp or in the pre season. .Goldobin has had three seasons to show what he can or cant do. He has offensive skills but is not willing to work on the defensive side of his game and has been passed by a few players starting with Boeser.basically the only players in the list you have that make the 13 for sure are Horvat Boeser Sutter Baertschi Virtanen Beagle, Roussel. The others have to compete for the 6 spots left. Not none, not two,6

But you keep spinning it your way.Most here see competition as a good thing. but i move on.

What you seem to be missing is players have come in and won spots, and Benning did not make room. Stecher won a spot in the lineup but had to wait 20 games for an injury to get in the lineup. Maybe you think wasting 20 games of a season to get your best lineup together is no big deal, but I do. Boeser earned a spot, but because he had an off game to end preseason he sat 2 games so Burmistrov could play. Burmistrov was never better in any game than Boeser preseason or regular. Now we are going to be waiving promising young forwards or waiting for trades, could take 5 10 or 20 games, by then could have ruined confidence of entire team. What if Dahlen Pettersson Goldobin Leipsic Palmu Gaudette prove to be ready, they all can’t make the team. We would be left waiting for 4 trades or injuries. Benning would have no leverage and return for those trades would be underwhelming. Now I don’t care if we lose Gaunce or Archibald or Kero or Motte (after 1 game), that all require waivers, but those players could have been used if they were not ready.

 

I am also not confident Benning can or would trade Eriksson or Gagner. Gagner maybe. You seem to have confidence in Benning to make trades where I don’t. Benning was a scout in Boston and his strength is at the draft. It is not managing the roster or free agent signings. Green is more concerned about keeping his job than working with and improving young players. Green wants to ice vets and has shown very little patience with rookies. He was brought in because of his ability to work with young players. Now that he’s an nhl coach he expects mistake free hockey from rookies while letting vets slide. Babcock brought in young players to work with them, to continue teaching at the nhl level is what the Canucks need to do too. He said there would be pain, but are now Stanley cup favourites. They did not flood the roster with vets, they let young players earn a spot by having some available. All the young teams did not need to make a bunch of trades after preseason to make room for the rookies, they had the vision to have a couple roster spots available, knowing they had a few ready to make the team.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Watchincanucks said:

Stecher won a spot in the lineup but had to wait 20 games for an injury to get in the lineup. Maybe you think wasting 20 games of a season to get your best lineup together is no big deal, but I do.

He played a whopping 4 games in Utica. If you're going to bitch, at least get your facts straight.

 

He also played 3 more games that year despite Benning's supposed 'mismanagement' than he did last year actually starting on the team.

 

So no, it really isn't a big deal.

[Watchincanucks]

Sorry he missed 11 games to start, who cares he was best player preseason and did not make the team. No amount of spin you put on it is going to change that fact.