aGENT Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Adarsh Sant said: Have all you in the pitchfork crowd possibly considered that perhaps Linden wanted to target the likes of Bozak etc (which would have in fact been more like the 'be mediocre' route y'all are whining about) and that Aqualini/Benning weren't sold and wanted to continue on the existing rebuild path? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 minute ago, canucksnihilist said: right - so that is a good reply. You think that trades will have to happen in order to make it work. My rejoinder would be this: why put yourself in a position to have to trade away valuable players (such as Sutter) by signing FAs that you can't move? Sutter's NTC becomes modified next year, so yeah, I can see him being traded (and I believe he has a lot of value for a contending teams). The following year will be the end of his contract. If you look at the salary cap, there are several players each year that become UFAs or on 1yr contracts. Not all of our prospects will make the NHL, in fact, most won't. The players with perceived potential will be given the opportunity to develop without pressure. As they become NHL ready, there shouldn't be a problem making room for them on the team. In the meantime, they will have callups to the big club, while playing big minutes in Utica. This is a process that will continue for several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, canucksnihilist said: I just see a lot of contracts that will be hard to move. that is the root of my comments. and the consequence is that players won't develop as quickly, nor play in the NHL as quickly as they could. will they still do so, yes - that wasn't my point though. I believe they will all eventually make it if they deserve to. It really won't be hard to get rid of Gagner, Granlund, Baer, Schaller, Sutter etc and even Eriksson in due time, as situation dictates. There's also no guarantee that we'll be keeping (or that all will even make it) all of Goldobin, Leipsic, Lind, Dahlen, Gadjovich, Gaudette etc. What you can be pretty sure of is that management will do everything in it's power to ensure we keep as many of the best of those players as long as we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchincanucks Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 48 minutes ago, Viper007 said: So according to you .... we should try Goldobin as a PKer if he isn't good enough to be in the top 6 role. Is that what I'm hearing? You need players to be in specific roles to make a team. Not just fill your top 12 fowards with young players who YOU want on the team. You listed those good defensive forwards that were on the team last year. Last I checked the team wasn't very good on the PK last year. So you want it to be the same again?? Isn't that the definition of insanity? Well we brought exact same defence. But I did propose changes to pk, with Gaudette and Virtanen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Adarsh Sant said: Ah.....Dan Murphy. The same chucklehead who whined/tweeted about Gudbranson "threatening" the life of Matt Martin in the lockerroom. Murphy is a fool. Plain and simple. He's just another media shill offering up conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchincanucks Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 53 minutes ago, Viper007 said: So according to you .... we should try Goldobin as a PKer if he isn't good enough to be in the top 6 role. Is that what I'm hearing? You need players to be in specific roles to make a team. Not just fill your top 12 fowards with young players who YOU want on the team. You listed those good defensive forwards that were on the team last year. Last I checked the team wasn't very good on the PK last year. So you want it to be the same again?? Isn't that the definition of insanity? Leipsic played on Vegas 4th line, could play pk, so now he can’t be 4th liner for Canucks, because you think he needs to play top 6? Teams can and do play lots of different players in different situations and do not need to be slotted in a particular role. Granlund played wing for Sedins on first line, then up and down lineup under Green. Never did I say Goldobin should be on pk, but could play on 3rd line, matched against other 3rd or 4th lines. That you and others are matching our 3rd and 4th against their 1st and 2nd lines, probably means those lines get more ice time than 1st and 2nd, not a good plan. 4th lines are usually matched against each other, to limit ice time appropriately. In a hard match up game of 4th on 1st, if their first plays 20 mins so does our 4th, bad strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Watchincanucks said: Leipsic played on Vegas 4th line, could play pk, so now he can’t be 4th liner for Canucks, because you think he needs to play top 6? Teams can and do play lots of different players in different situations and do not need to be slotted in a particular role. Granlund played wing for Sedins on first line, then up and down lineup under Green. Never did I say Goldobin should be on pk, but could play on 3rd line, matched against other 3rd or 4th lines. That you and others are matching our 3rd and 4th against their 1st and 2nd lines, probably means those lines get more ice time than 1st and 2nd, not a good plan. 4th lines are usually matched against each other, to limit ice time appropriately. In a hard match up game of 4th on 1st, if their first plays 20 mins so does our 4th, bad strategy. Actually the nice thing about most of our W's in question is that that majority (short of probably Goldobin and Gagner) can play up and down all 4 lines if required. The rest of the guys (Leipsic, Virtanen, Eriksson, Granlund) play all over the place. So no, you're missing the point again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 19 minutes ago, Watchincanucks said: Leipsic played on Vegas 4th line, could play pk, so now he can’t be 4th liner for Canucks, because you think he needs to play top 6? Teams can and do play lots of different players in different situations and do not need to be slotted in a particular role. Granlund played wing for Sedins on first line, then up and down lineup under Green. Never did I say Goldobin should be on pk, but could play on 3rd line, matched against other 3rd or 4th lines. That you and others are matching our 3rd and 4th against their 1st and 2nd lines, probably means those lines get more ice time than 1st and 2nd, not a good plan. 4th lines are usually matched against each other, to limit ice time appropriately. In a hard match up game of 4th on 1st, if their first plays 20 mins so does our 4th, bad strategy. At 24 and 23yrs old, Leipsic and Goldobin only have 60ish NHL games under their belt, so neither has proven that they can play an entire season yet. It's a big risk assume that either player will be able to play 80 games and maintain a semblance of NHL hockey and an adequate level. If a team wants to have depth throughout the season, the can't really on players that peter out after half the season. I'm not that convinced that either of those players are consistent enough to become NHL players as of yet and I'd far rather see them as the injury depth training in Utica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchincanucks Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, aGENT said: Actually the nice thing about most of our W's in question is that that majority (short of probably Goldobin and Gagner) can play up and down all 4 lines if required. The rest of the guys (Leipsic, Virtanen, Eriksson, Granlund) play all over the place. So no, you're missing the point again. Saying I’m missing the point by saying the same thing as I am, wow that’s a new one. You know who won’t be playing up and down the lineup, Jay Beagle. My point has been and remains in order to get even a single rookie in the lineup this year we have to waive or trade a player. I don’t want to wait around for trades injuries or poor play to get them in. Any player occupying a roster spot or gifted one, is one less spot a rookie can earn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchincanucks Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Oh and I do not want to lose Goldobin or Leipsic for nothing, but will if they are put on waivers, no they won’t sneak through imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Watchincanucks said: Saying I’m missing the point by saying the same thing as I am, wow that’s a new one. You know who won’t be playing up and down the lineup, Jay Beagle. My point has been and remains in order to get even a single rookie in the lineup this year we have to waive or trade a player. I don’t want to wait around for trades injuries or poor play to get them in. Any player occupying a roster spot or gifted one, is one less spot a rookie can earn. Missing the point in that nobody is saying Leipsic (or numerous other players) can't play on the 4th line. So you'd rather 'gift' a spot to a kid who hasn't earned it rather than a veteran who has. Sounds like a great plan. There is zero issue with trading or waiving any player who gets out played. I have no idea why that remotely concerns you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Watchincanucks said: Oh and I do not want to lose Goldobin or Leipsic for nothing, but will if they are put on waivers, no they won’t sneak through imo. That's where we disagree. The only rookies I see making the team this year are Pettersson, Juolevi and possibly Gaudette and Dahlen. I really don't see Goldy or Leips challenging any of those players. If by chance any other prospect plays lights out, then they would likely spend time in Utica until a trade is made. Every team has prospects like Leips and Goldy, so I don't think they will be in a hurry to pick them off waivers, because if they do...they have to keep them in the NHL for the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchincanucks Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 minute ago, higgyfan said: That's where we disagree. The only rookies I see making the team this year are Pettersson, Juolevi and possibly Gaudette and Dahlen. I really don't see Goldy or Leips challenging any of those players. If by chance any other prospect plays lights out, then they would likely spend time in Utica until a trade is made. Every team has prospects like Leips and Goldy, so I don't think they will be in a hurry to pick them off waivers, because if they do...they have to keep them in the NHL for the season. Leipsic and Goldobin need to clear waivers they don’t make the team they get claimed imo. They will not be depth in Utica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchincanucks Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Don’t have to remain on roster entire season, we claimed Boucher and sent him down later that year, he could be claimed back if placed on waivers again but he was too good for a team not to take a chance on a former first round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Watchincanucks said: Don’t have to remain on roster entire season, we claimed Boucher and sent him down later that year, he could be claimed back if placed on waivers again but he was too good for a team not to take a chance on a former first round pick. I don't remember the scenario with Boucher, but the regulations for waiver picks is that they must remain with the NHL team that picks them. Remember Corrado? If they want to send the picked player down to the AHL, the original team can pick them and send them down to their own AHL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, canucksnihilist said: ok so maybe giving kids changes when injuries happen is common practice. I'm not saying there is a huge problem, but i'm wondering how he could make the team - and I guess the plan is to have injuries... which is OK but not very proactive. I believe we have many of players(Baert,Granny,Gaunce,Leipsic,Shaller,Gagner) on the team who are at the make or break point in their careers as Canucks. They have relatively low cap hits and short contracts on the team and no NTC to protect them either. This makes them just as vulnerable as a prospect when it comes to a "short leash" in whether they remain on the team or not. I think this is a good thing in that it brings about competition and leaves out "complacency" and "staleness" on the team which has plagued them for years now. There is a big picture here and I believe we will not see it until the team actually starts playing games. Exciting times in mind as we will maybe see a team that plays an entire 60 minutes for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 20 minutes ago, Watchincanucks said: Leipsic and Goldobin need to clear waivers they don’t make the team they get claimed imo. They will not be depth in Utica. No loss. If those two aren’t good enough to take a job, they should be gone. If JB can trade either (or both) for later round picks, he should do that. If not, then put them on waivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper007 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Watchincanucks said: Leipsic played on Vegas 4th line, could play pk, so now he can’t be 4th liner for Canucks, because you think he needs to play top 6? Teams can and do play lots of different players in different situations and do not need to be slotted in a particular role. Granlund played wing for Sedins on first line, then up and down lineup under Green. Never did I say Goldobin should be on pk, but could play on 3rd line, matched against other 3rd or 4th lines. That you and others are matching our 3rd and 4th against their 1st and 2nd lines, probably means those lines get more ice time than 1st and 2nd, not a good plan. 4th lines are usually matched against each other, to limit ice time appropriately. In a hard match up game of 4th on 1st, if their first plays 20 mins so does our 4th, bad strategy. From what I've read it isn't about matching lines, it's about the defensive side of the game. If there is a defensive zone face-off you would most likely play the Beagle or Sutter line. If you start in the offensive zone you play with your top 6 whether it be Horvat or Pettersen or Whoever. If Goldobin is on the 3rd line that means he's on the Sutter or Beagle line therefore having to take on defensive responsibilities. Do you not realize that? Why would you put him in a position to fail, therefore losing more confidence. Goldobin needs to play top 6 to be on the team. Leipsic is a different player. He probably can be utilized on the 3rd or 4th line. But he has to prove that he can outplay Granlund, Gaunce, Virtanen, Gaudette and others to make the team. If both those 2 players don't make the team then they get put on waivers. I get that you're worried about them getting picked up by another team, but in my mind it's not a big loss. Other teams will be in the same situation, so everybody will be looking to get their own players put down into the minors. If whatever team picks up players, they have to place others on waivers so it goes around in a circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper007 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, Alflives said: No loss. If those two aren’t good enough to take a job, they should be gone. If JB can trade either (or both) for later round picks, he should do that. If not, then put them on waivers. Exactly. I'm sure JB will try to trade them first before exposing them on waivers, if it comes down to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Watchincanucks said: Leipsic and Goldobin need to clear waivers they don’t make the team they get claimed imo. They will not be depth in Utica. These are guys we got for expiring contracts (or close enough in Hansen). It is a crap shoot, call it a 25% chance you are getting a useful player in the long run when making deals like these. I think both actually have already returned decent value for expiring contracts. If one of them develops into a useful player, even if a thirteenth forward, that is gravy. If we lose one it isn't that big a loss, if they force their way on the team even better. For every Leipsic lost, we are more likely to see a Jasek, a Lind or a Palmu used for call ups this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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