Is the Current Ownership Failing this Team?

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, Dungass said:

Is the Current Ownership Failing this Team?

ABSOLUTELY!   Instead of funding every possible nature of nicety for the players/team and willingness to spend to the CAP without question, they simply provide no on-ice presence.   The Aquilini's are a big family yet do you see a SINGLE one of them on the ice helping the team?   No - they are clearly failing this team....they should know an owner needs to do so much more than fund everything and provide only the best of the best in every area for their staff and players. 

 

So what if the provide whatever dollars are needed, give great playing, practice and travel perks for the players.   So what if they invest heavily in prospect development.    Pffffttt.   Give some effort on the ice and stop failing this team!!!!

 

 

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, HerrDrFunk said:

What band-aid fixes were made this summer?

 

 

That meaningless commitment to a new practice facility, the provision of funds to the GM to spend as needed and the upgrades to the prospect development program.    All band-aid when clearly the owners should have been working on other things that are so important that I am at a loss to figure out what owners do beyond what the Owners have been doing.

[Tiger-Hearted]

25 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

They were widely respected but were also considered to be very frugal. Frank Griffiths bailed the team out when the previous ownership ran into legal problems and was widely appreciated for bringing local Canadian ownership to the franchise. However, he had difficulty in hiring good hockey people to run the organization. He brought Bill Hughes with him from CKNW to be the President of the Canucks and Bill acknowledged that he knew little about the game other than that gained from being a fan.

 

Interesting tidbit - Hughes actually tried to hire Scotty Bowman to run the team as GM but Scotty wanted to coach as well and the Canucks would not accept that offer.

 

"Before settling on Milford as GM, Bill Hughes - who was the CEO of the Canucks for nine years during the early Frank Griffiths years and the vice president of Western Broadcasting Limited - targeted legendary Montreal Canadiens bench boss Scotty Bowman for the role.

Bowman, who would leave the Canadiens two years later to join the Buffalo Sabres organization, was apparently very serious about the possibility.But the deal fell apart because the Canucks were not looking for someone to be both a GM and a coach. They wanted Bowman for his executive skills."

 

Very well stated. Frank Griffiths also promoted Harry Neale to replace Jake Milford in '82. Neale had absolutely no managerial experience and it showed terribly. Mr. Griffiths wouldn't spend money to make the Canucks better either. The club ditched their farm team in Dallas and partnered up with the Nordiques to share their AHL team. The club also had the smallest scouting staff in the NHL led by the inept Mike Penney. 

 

However, Mr. Griffiths had no problems spending $100 grand to kick start the club's identity crisis with the controversial Flying V's. He, along with Milford would have rather listened to some quack psychologist's opinion about uniform colours instead of realizing that the talent level stunk with no thanks to Milford's inept gm predecessors.  

[Gurn]

6 minutes ago, Tiger-Hearted said:

Mr. Griffiths wouldn't spend money to make the Canucks better either.

Griffiths was a rich man compared to many, many people, but not compared to the folks he was competing with in a pre cap league.

[butters]

another game of spin the finger of blame. Always gotta have someone to blame.

[TheGuardian_]

2 hours ago, Dungass said:

Obviously since the question is in my head, I lean towards yes.  I've suspected for some time that Benning was hired partly on the grounds of being able to tell the Aquilini's what they wanted to hear.  In 2014 it was re-tool on the fly, later it wouldn't be fair to tear the team down because of the Sedins, to flat out refusing to say even the word rebuild.  Now with Linden's departure, the consensus seems to be that Trevor wanted to the team not to fast track anything and take their time.  It sounds like he really tried to do his research at the draft and presumably presented the ownership a comprehensive display of his case.

 

What I see since the departure of Gillis, is a consistent refusal of ownership to start from scratch and take a patient approach to rebuilding this team.  They seem to want to cut corners with short term fixes every chance they get, and Benning is apparently saying "yes" to this approach.  I don't totally begrudge them, they are businessmen after all, and who wants to take a bigger loss than they have to?  Regardless, it is short sighted.

 

Anyways, I'm not a hardliner on this, in fact, I like the moves Benning made this summer, term aside of course.  The team needed to toughen up for years now, and who knows, they could surprise.  But I am concerned by an ownership group that wants to constantly put short term, band-aid fixes on long term problems.  

Get McCaw to buy them back, he was never around, he had the internal cap, he had an accountant running the team.

 

Better yet get a conglomorate of owners like TO had, only worried about making money, no interest in the playoffs if the team is making a profit.

 

What moves did ownership make that restricted these guys from doing a rebuild? Stop giving them money? Not let them hire people?

 

Just what do you know for sure ownership did in the last four years that countermanded a Linden/Benning decision?

 

Maybe it is the other way around, maybe the owner knows that the best players come from the early draft picks, geez that would a stretch eh, being able to see where the best players are drafted, maybe they wanted a total tear down. Gillis was run out of town by the media. Linden was hired to take the heat off the club, the owner and his kids as this media is so toxic. If Aquilinni gave more interviews he would likely not be the target of every ill this team has had since he bought it. Linden was the "man" that refused to rebuild or "tear it down" due to his loyalty to the Sedins, he got traded a bunch at the end of his career and didn't like it. He lasted until the Sedins were gone and then left.

 

What else can an owner do but give management an open cheque book? He knows hockey, shoud he just bury his head in the sand or take an even more active role, IMO, a more active role, like those teams that win Patriots, Cowboys, Capitals, Bruins, Penquins, Red Wings, Black Hawks and those on the upswing, Maple Leafs, Oilers, Jets, Blue Jackets, ... there are always exceptions to the rule, but will Melnyk end up having a better team in 4 years because he is demanding results?  

[Nuxfanabroad]

So why don't we "jump the shark" in every sense, & go BACK(to the future?) donning the Flying V's for just one more blatantly ignominious season? Give them eastern rabble something to grouse about. They, who know the price of all, but the true value of nuttin'!

 

The ultimate diversion, where 95% of the unwashed masses would even forget about Trump's tweets!

[xereau]

No.  I don't think anyone on these boards knows what is going on behind the scenes.  This is all dramatic speculation and over reactive nonsense.

 

All I see looking from the outside, is the cupboards bursting with potential for the first time.. pretty much ever.

 

And there are numerous options better than Trevor Linden for fashioning a legitimate complete franchise.  He was in waaaaaay over his head as Prez.

[Jester13]

As someone with peeps in close circle to ownership, the emphatic answer is YES. 

 

I know I've been flamed many times on here for all of this, but the stories I've heard about meddling and selling/not selling the team, etc. makes me extremely disappointed as a die-hard fan. The full rebuild has been on for a while, but FA apparently still gets super impatient, and he can't make up his mind on whether or not he wants to even keep the team. He has very little trust for his management team and their long-term vision to build a competitive team and prospect pool for years to come. 

[BCNate]

This ownership group took the last core group to game 7 of the finals, then came back and won the president's trophy the next year.  The Canucks were a huge draw at this time, even in 2013 when we got swept by SJ.  Anyone who thinks that is the time to rebuild is nuts.  The Aquilinis are running a business, and are not going to strip everything down when business is at it's peak.  Vancouver does not have the most loyal of fan bases to support a rebuilding team.   Please find me a team that has gone into a full rebuild 1 year removed from winning back to back president's trophies while their two stars are still in their prime.  It doesn't happen.

 

Everybody who was clamoring for a rebuild, but doesn't feel we are doing it right; you now have a guy who would have been in the mix for the calder has had he not been injured, and elite c/w who tore apart the SHL at 18, an elite puckmoving defenseman who may play in the NHL at 18 or go back and shred the NCAA as a sophmore, one of the top 5 goalie prospects in the league who may be a better prospect than Schnieder, and 5 other prospects in the top 100.  All while dropping in the lottery every year.  How is that not  solid start to the rebuild?  This year and next we will really start to see these prospects make impact at the NHL level.

 

There is a lot of complaining about signing "overpriced plugs" like Beagle, Schaller, Rousell. Who do you expect to play for the team?  Would you rather have guys like Megna, Chaput, Molino, or Dowd?  These guys are stop gaps, sure, but they will make up a much better bottom 6 than we have had the last few years, and will allow our skilled guys to play more in the offensive zone. They also add far more grit and size to the lineup than we have had in recent years.  Guys like the 3 I listed above, Del Zotto, Gagner are here to allow our prospects to develop slowly in the AHL, NCAA, CHL, or Europe.  Taking time for the young players  to develop outside of the NHL sounds a lot like a good way to rebuild. These guys will be bought out, traded, or sent to the AHL when they start to block our prospects from making the team.  They are not impacting the cap, and will not impede the progress of the prospects, they are here to simply ice and NHL team.

 

The only people that his ownership group is failing is the fan who expects every pick to meet their max potential, every signing to end up being a massive underpayment, and every trade to be a steal of a deal, or that we ice a well rounded team made up entirely of high end prospects.  I get that everything has not move has worked out, but I certainly don't expect them to. I think most fans understand that there is a cycle where a team is building, competing, tending downward, and then rebuilding.  This takes time and will not happen overnight.  In the next year or 2 the Canucks will start building out the roster to compete.  To go from being a contender in 2013 to being a competitve team in 2019 with an entirely new young core is pretty successful rebuild in my eyes.

 

My advice to fans is to enjoy these next few years rather than complaining that everything is not perfect.  We are going to see 5 or 6 of the best prospects we've ever had make their mark in the league at the same time.  Very few teams in recent memory have had such a high end group of prospects in all positions that we do.  This is a well balanced rebuild.

[Nuxfanabroad]

9 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

As someone with peeps in close circle to ownership, the emphatic answer is YES. 

 

I know I've been flamed many times on here for all of this, but the stories I've heard about meddling and selling/not selling the team, etc. makes me extremely disappointed as a die-hard fan. The full rebuild has been on for a while, but FA apparently still gets super impatient, and he can't make up his mind on whether or not he wants to even keep the team. He has very little trust for his management team and their long-term vision to build a competitive team and prospect pool for years to come. 

Which begs the question whenever any rich bloke tips their hand. One could have 4 contrasting stock answers for 4 audiences, that can be blended in 3 directions.

 

At the end of the day...

 

- Do they spend near max?

- Do players appear to want to stay?

- Do they meddle & force trades?

 

Up to this point(on balance), I think this ownership has been alright.

[24K PureCool]

14 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

As someone with peeps in close circle to ownership, the emphatic answer is YES. 

 

I know I've been flamed many times on here for all of this, but the stories I've heard about meddling and selling/not selling the team, etc. makes me extremely disappointed as a die-hard fan. The full rebuild has been on for a while, but FA apparently still gets super impatient, and he can't make up his mind on whether or not he wants to even keep the team. He has very little trust for his management team and their long-term vision to build a competitive team and prospect pool for years to come. 

So you are essentially saying that Aqua decided to be more of a CDC poster than an owner....

 

 

Sounds about right.

[Nuxfanabroad]

7 minutes ago, BCNate said:

This ownership group took the last core group to game 7 of the finals, then came back and won the president's trophy the next year.  The Canucks were a huge draw at this time, even in 2013 when we got swept by SJ.  Anyone who thinks that is the time to rebuild is nuts.  The Aquilinis are running a business, and are not going to strip everything down when business is at it's peak.  Vancouver does not have the most loyal of fan bases to support a rebuilding team.   Please find me a team that has gone into a full rebuild 1 year removed from winning back to back president's trophies while their two stars are still in their prime.  It doesn't happen.

 

Everybody who was clamoring for a rebuild, but doesn't feel we are doing it right; you now have a guy who would have been in the mix for the calder has had he not been injured, and elite c/w who tore apart the SHL at 18, an elite puckmoving defenseman who may play in the NHL at 18 or go back and shred the NCAA as a sophmore, one of the top 5 goalie prospects in the league who may be a better prospect than Schnieder, and 5 other prospects in the top 100.  All while dropping in the lottery every year.  How is that not  solid start to the rebuild?  This year and next we will really start to see these prospects make impact at the NHL level.

 

There is a lot of complaining about signing "overpriced plugs" like Beagle, Schaller, Rousell. Who do you expect to play for the team?  Would you rather have guys like Megna, Chaput, Molino, or Dowd?  These guys are stop gaps, sure, but they will make up a much better bottom 6 than we have had the last few years, and will allow our skilled guys to play more in the offensive zone. They also add far more grit and size to the lineup than we have had in recent years.  Guys like the 3 I listed above, Del Zotto, Gagner are here to allow our prospects to develop slowly in the AHL, NCAA, CHL, or Europe.  Taking time for the young players  to develop outside of the NHL sounds a lot like a good way to rebuild. These guys will be bought out, traded, or sent to the AHL when they start to block our prospects from making the team.  They are not impacting the cap, and will not impede the progress of the prospects, they are here to simply ice and NHL team.

 

The only people that his ownership group is failing is the fan who expects every pick to meet their max potential, every signing to end up being a massive underpayment, and every trade to be a steal of a deal, or that we ice a well rounded team made up entirely of high end prospects.  I get that everything has not move has worked out, but I certainly don't expect them to. I think most fans understand that there is a cycle where a team is building, competing, tending downward, and then rebuilding.  This takes time and will not happen overnight.  In the next year or 2 the Canucks will start building out the roster to compete.  To go from being a contender in 2013 to being a competitve team in 2019 with an entirely new young core is pretty successful rebuild in my eyes.

 

My advice to fans is to enjoy these next few years rather than complaining that everything is not perfect.  We are going to see 5 or 6 of the best prospects we've ever had make their mark in the league at the same time.  Very few teams in recent memory have had such a high end group of prospects in all positions that we do.  This is a well balanced rebuild.

POTD. Well stated.

[kloubek]

4 hours ago, Dungass said:

Obviously since the question is in my head, I lean towards yes.

Brandon... is that you??

[Gaudette Celly]

3 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I agree with a lot of what VanGnome had to say.

 

We need to separate Linden: the Canucks player/hero who took the team to the SCF in the 90s, and Linden: the inexperienced executive who seemed to learn on the fly and was out of his element. 

 

I believe Linden was hired as a ploy to engage Canucks fans and entice us to support the team through the rebuild. Not for his great wisdom on how to run an NHL hockey team. Canucks fans can now see the finish line, we're excited with our prospects and the future, Linden's job is done.  

What the Canucks need now imo is a businessman who can direct a large enterprise with a public persona.  They need someone to run the business ops and set the brand, culture, message, marketing, fan experience, etc. all the while leaving the actual hockey operations to Benning and his crew.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

We have deep pocket owners who really care about this team and this city and are willing to spend money.

 

In the real world, that’s about as good as it gets.

 

Of course, the ideal owner is one with a tonne of money, who spends as much as possible on the franchise, is knowledgeable on both the hockey and business side, creates the right vision for the team, hires the best people to implement it, and then steps back and just lets management run the show without any ownership interference.

 

But that owner only exists in fairy tales.

 

 

[Baggins]

4 hours ago, VanGnome said:

The answer is no. This fanbase is failing this team.

What's with the love in here with Linden? Re-tool on the fly, not fair to Sedins etc. These were words uttered by Benning, but crafted by Linden. Linden set the direction and focus of player personnel decisions and hockey operations and Benning had to execute his plan.

If anything it was Linden abstaining from recognizing that this is now a young mans game, with speed and skill. Willie D was Linden's hiring, an old school real gud hockey guy who coveted veteran leadership.

Benning and Green are more aligned in the youth movement than Linden ever was. This is now Benning's show, and if his draft record thus far is any indication, I suspect we'll see a lot more good decisions being made than bad.

IMO Linden was the problem, not ownership, Benning or Green.

Well you'd actually need that available to you. How did Virtanen and McCann do getting rushed in?

 

Seems a contradition that Linden was blocking young guys with Benning signing 3 more veterans this summer. And why would Linden be ok with trading assets for Vey, Etem, Baertschi, Granlund and Pouliot if he was opposed to young guys? Seems to me Benning would have been fired a couple of years ago if your take was the truth of the matter.

[ilduce39]

3 hours ago, TimberWolf said:

there is no reason to believe that Benning, Linden and ownership were not all on the same page at the start

 

Gillis wanted to rebuild and was fired and it's far more likely the owners hire more like minded people to replace him.

This isn’t the whole picture.  

 

Gillis also turned (arguably) the best 2 goalies the franchise has ever had into Jacob Markstrom and Bo (who at the time was seen as a likely 3C).  After a painfully embarrassing public circus. 

 

He flushed a blue chip asset in Hodgson on Kassian.

 

He had literally nothing in the prospect pool.

 

He had a bunch of stale past-their-prime vets tied up into big, NTC laden contracts.

 

So Gilly saying “id like to rebuild now” is cute, but he had very little to show that he was the guy to accomplish that.. and with all the NTCs on declining assets and nothing in the way of top prospects to hand the reigns to I can see why ownership balked.

[Jam126]

People who say that wr should've started rebuilding in 2012 or 2013 are delusional, we we're still contenders and the Sedins were still producing and other core players were still in their prime. As for the OP, I don't even know what the definition of a rebuild is anymore. What more do you people want? It's insane how this fanbase along with the media here want to jump at every opportunity to spin any story from the Canucks into a negative, it's embarrassing really.

[ilduce39]

7 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Well you'd actually need that available to you. How did Virtanen and McCann do getting rushed in?

 

Seems a contradition that Linden was blocking young guys with Benning signing 3 more veterans this summer. And why would Linden be ok with trading assets for Vey, Etem, Baertschi, Granlund and Pouliot if he was opposed to young guys? Seems to me Benning would have been fired a couple of years ago if your take was the truth of the matter.

Yeah, the whole thing doesn’t make sense.  

 

I don’t think you can look at management and cast someone as the “villain” who keeps bringing in veterans to “block” our young players... nor a “hero” who behind the scenes is pushing for the rookies to get ice time.  

 

These guys aren’t TV characters... I would expect a bit more depth to their decision.