kingofsurrey Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, King Heffy said: The team is moving in the right direction. Just let Benning and Green do their thing. We are lucky to have ownership willing to buy a farm team. Not so long ago, a relocation wasn't unthinkable. 2014 - 48 wins 2015 - 30 wins 2016 - 31 wins 2017 - 30 wins Is this what you call moving in the right direction... really ? Oh yeah, have you heard about our prospects..... ? NHL is a results based business. Linden may have been moved out because he was not going to be the one moving out JB in the next year . TBH the club wasted 2 years of the rebuild process...... trying to maintain a playoff spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I'll speak for myself only in this thread... The Aquilinis have not failed me as a fan of the Canucks. They have consistently spent money to keep the team competitive (with little to show for their efforts). Even though rich people hate to lose money, I honestly do not believe they care too much how the team does financially on a year-to-year basis. They have seen the equity value of the team rise, what 3-4 fold since they purchased the team (and though the team value has plateaued in the last few seasons), so even if they lose money on a year-to-year, they have covered themselves on the backend. And the Aquilini's are billionaires, so losing a few million is equivalent to most of the masses losing a couple of g-notes on bad sporting bets. All this is sort of moot because, in spite of their losing ways, I bet CSE continues to operate in the black (though the profit may not be as large as it was 6-10 years ago...hockey revenues may be down, but I bet a few concerts at the Rog in the off-season will more than make up whatever is ailing the bottom line). Where the team has failed, IMO, is how they have drafted and developed talent. Through its history, the team has drafted poorly and have given up on players way too soon. I give Gillis a pass on his failures when it comes to drafting because his modus operandi was to use draft picks as currency to stock a cup contender with missing pieces. Benning has been operating under a whole different set of circumstances and so far, he has compiled a group of really promising players. Promising players who have yet to prove anything in the NHL (other than Boeser). Every other player has promise -- some more than others, and some even with a shot at superstardom (Boeser, Juolevi, Demko, Pettersson, Gaudette, Woo, Dipietro, Virtanen, etc.), but at this point in time, all they have shown is promise. Fingers crossed that the majority of the stockpile of weapons become weapons of mass destruction. Me, as a Canucks fan, I have stopped spending any money other than watching the Canucks on TV from the comfort of my great room in White Rock. I cancelled my season ticket "membership" after the last lock out and I have stopped buying Canucks merchandise when I got tired of watching a small group of billionaires squabble with big group of millionaires. The Canucks owe me nothing and I owe the Canucks nothing (though I remain a fan of the Canucks and want them to win the cup). So rather than speaking for the general populous and speaking for just myself, the Aquilinis have not failed me. If I spent actual hard dollars, I might feel differently. That's all I have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 9 hours ago, Dungass said: Obviously since the question is in my head, I lean towards yes. I've suspected for some time that Benning was hired partly on the grounds of being able to tell the Aquilini's what they wanted to hear. In 2014 it was re-tool on the fly, later it wouldn't be fair to tear the team down because of the Sedins, to flat out refusing to say even the word rebuild. Now with Linden's departure, the consensus seems to be that Trevor wanted to the team not to fast track anything and take their time. It sounds like he really tried to do his research at the draft and presumably presented the ownership a comprehensive display of his case. What I see since the departure of Gillis, is a consistent refusal of ownership to start from scratch and take a patient approach to rebuilding this team. They seem to want to cut corners with short term fixes every chance they get, and Benning is apparently saying "yes" to this approach. I don't totally begrudge them, they are businessmen after all, and who wants to take a bigger loss than they have to? Regardless, it is short sighted. Anyways, I'm not a hardliner on this, in fact, I like the moves Benning made this summer, term aside of course. The team needed to toughen up for years now, and who knows, they could surprise. But I am concerned by an ownership group that wants to constantly put short term, band-aid fixes on long term problems. I'd love to hear how they could have "started from scratch". And it seems to me that many think they've been too patient with adding youngsters. I think they've done a stellar job of setting the org up to be contenders again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey God Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I love the Canucks, even from here in New Zealand, and have for over 40 years. But, who am I to argue with someone who gives my team the ability to spend to the cap? Whatever you think of the Aqua family, they give the fan base the ability to cheer for a team in Vancouver, rather than see it disappear to a city somewhere in America's deep south (Grizzlies, anyone?). I'll support anyone who puts their money where their mouth is, as well as their right to have a say in how their money is used. If, as I think may have happened, Benning has finally managed to sway ownership to his way of thinking given the raw talent he has added to the team, and Trevor stood in the way of using that talent with loyalty to the past, well, it may be that we now have an owner who has learned to trust someone in the role as GM, which again, can only be good for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 22 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: 2014 - 48 wins 2015 - 30 wins 2016 - 31 wins 2017 - 30 wins Is this what you call moving in the right direction... really ? Oh yeah, have you heard about our prospects..... ? NHL is a results based business. Linden may have been moved out because he was not going to be the one moving out JB in the next year . TBH the club wasted 2 years of the rebuild process...... trying to maintain a playoff spot. What would you call moving in the right direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanfor42 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 This ownership group has been very good to the fans. If the fans got behind the owners we would have synergy to bring the team up. Every fan who complains about the owners is helping to tear down the structure they are trying to create. The reason canuck fans are unhappy is that they bitch about everything. I liked Linden but he quit his job. He was not fired he quit. I cannot respect that. Acquilinis gave been very good owners. Every facility and coach is brought in and every dollar is spent without question. If fans were proud of the owners it would filter through the entire organization as a positive reinforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Darius said: What would you call moving in the right direction? Apparently they should have improved on those 48 wins, either with their old declining roster or rebuilt it in less than a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: Apparently they should have improved on those 48 wins, either with their old declining roster or rebuilt it in less than a year. Apparently the performance of a NHL franchise should by based on hyped prospects and not on wins. Why don't you ask Bettman next year to award the Stanley Cup / or final standings to the team with the best / most hyped prospects......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Apparently the performance of a NHL franchise should by based on hyped prospects and not on wins. Why don't you ask Bettman next year to award the Stanley Cup / or final standings to the team with the best / most hyped prospects......? So, in 2014 how would you have managed to improve the win losses every year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 First time in a few years I'm seriously stoked about the future. So I'd say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Apparently the performance of a NHL franchise should by based on hyped prospects and not on wins. Why don't you ask Bettman next year to award the Stanley Cup / or final standings to the team with the best / most hyped prospects......? Because all the prospects are supposed to arrive within a year or two of being drafted and replace the entire 23-man roster within 4 years of starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said: Because all the prospects are supposed to arrive within a year or two of being drafted and replace the entire 23-man roster within 4 years of starting. I will say the club is moving in the right direction when we see our wins going up compared to the previous year. Anything else is pure speculation. We seem to have alot of quality prospects now but at this time they are only prospects...... Do you think.. all the prospects are supposed to arrive within a year or two of being drafted and replace the entire 23-man roster within 4 years of starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erkayloomeh Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 9 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Another gossip thread? It could be. It appears this and that. I suspect. Because so and so said this I think probably this or that. It's trevor that's the problem. If not it's probably Jim. Maybe there not on the same page. FA is meddling not he's not. I mean I really can't say for sure but........ Possibly Jim reacted to something FA said while reacting to something linden said which ultimately makes me think he stepped down because probably his wife's fault or maybe there wives just didn't get along. I know something is up here behind the scenes . We simply need to banter these suspicion about between us until we ultimately figure out what's going here . That way we can solve this problem which is destroying our team.. Get rid if FA, Jim Benning and the rest of the staff. Start from scratch I say. Problem solved Your welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Here we go again. in the light corner stand the Benning lovers. Akin to a 386 pound gorilla able to tear the skates off a player not yet ready to have space made for him and prone to overpaying banana suppliers on Long term contracts. In in the dark corner stand the Linden lovers. Akin to the wolf who cries too much about how the retool doesn’t yet have a socket wrench and it was always an effing hammer they wanted anyways. Prone to chasing unsuspecting lambs down and torturing them with stories of the successes of other rebuilding plans. Benning lovers had their careers ruined by rushing themselves into the lineup and so are very protective about the weak young players who need protection... and Linden lovers made their careers great by throwing caution to the wind so they don’t care about that. i think that sums it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I love where this thread is going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 4 hours ago, aGENT said: Well quite frankly, I don't think that's realistic. I doubt FA's scouting players or making suggestions on who to sign, trade etc but I think it's naive to think that Benning and Co don't formulate a plan, targets, or let the owner know 'we have a chance to sign/trade for X player and I think we should do it' without consulting the guy who signs the tens of millions of dollars in cheques for those moves. I'm largely free to manage my department as I see fit and make suggestions for purchases etc but I still need to get approval for any of my ideas and explain why I want to spend that money. I don't see how it would be any different for Benning (albeit a much larger scale), nor should it be. Have you ever been in a situation where you're the expert on something and/or you just know you're making the best decision and the other person, likely a superior, thinks they know better than you when they don't? I know I have. Thankfully my current AD gives me full autonomy and trusts me, and when he questions me and thinks another way is better, we discuss it with solid reasoning and supporting evidence and he feels confident in my decision. FA actively delayed (denied might be more apt) the rebuild when people close to him all saw the writing on the wall and told him so - argued with him, in fact. But he refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said: First time in a few years I'm seriously stoked about the future. So I'd say no. exactly. I think if you look objectively at Linden's time you could argue there was a coaching mistake, and maybe a bit too much loyalty around the Sedins (maybe not, it can be argued both ways imo), but the fact is this team has never, ever had this much potential in the pipeline and Linden was the boss during that time. I still think this is just a black and white decision over seat sales and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: exactly. I think if you look objectively at Linden's time you could argue there was a coaching mistake, and maybe a bit too much loyalty around the Sedins (maybe not, it can be argued both ways imo), but the fact is this team has never, ever had this much potential in the pipeline and Linden was the boss during that time. I still think this is just a black and white decision over seat sales and nothing more. Being one of the worst teams in the league for 3 years generally should give you a few top prospects.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 32 minutes ago, Jester13 said: Have you ever been in a situation where you're the expert on something and/or you just know you're making the best decision and the other person, likely a superior, thinks they know better than you when they don't? I know I have. Thankfully my current AD gives me full autonomy and trusts me, and when he questions me and thinks another way is better, we discuss it with solid reasoning and supporting evidence and he feels confident in my decision. FA actively delayed (denied might be more apt) the rebuild when people close to him all saw the writing on the wall and told him so - argued with him, in fact. But he refused. Sure, who hasn't. I don't begrudge the guy with 100's of millions on the line, who's team had just won back to back president cups from being hesitant to rebuild. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pavelbure96 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 33 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Being one of the worst teams in the league for 3 years generally should give you a few top prospects.... Lol I don't agree with you very often. But you couldn't be more right here lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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