Is the Current Ownership Failing this Team?

[combover]

I’d say yes and it has been since 2013

ownership likes a puppet and they’ve got one now. Speak up or stand up for yourself or your views and out the door.

Mixed messages has been the norm.

itll be a great day when they aren’t the owners anymore. 

 

 

[Provost]

We have had a bad team for long stretches, but rarely hadamazement that was considered disfunctional or even below average.

 

I suspect if you took a poll of hockey people and insiders now, they would consider our management team in the bottom 5 of the league.

 

There is clearly more to the Linden story than we have heardz. Aquilini texting and retracting statements, the suddennness ofntrh departire surprising everyone, etc.

 

Linden and Benning were obviously both going to get fired at some point, it is kind of expected when taking on a team on the down slide.  You get it turned around and don’t last to reap the rewards.

[Crabcakes]

12 minutes ago, combover said:

I’d say yes and it has been since 2013

ownership likes a puppet and they’ve got one now. Speak up or stand up for yourself or your views and out the door.

Mixed messages has been the norm.

itll be a great day when they aren’t the owners anymore. 

 

 

I think that this situation is more complicated than it is being portrayed.  No wonder, it hasn't been explained by anybody who might actually know.

 

The Aquilini company is a family company and is into real estate investment.  These sorts of companies can be managed quite well by very few decision makers and as a family company, traditional heirarchy's don't follow.  The old man, Luigi is the real boss but he is semi-retired.  Francesco I presume, is the brightest of the boys but they can all be overruled periodically.

 

When the old man exercises his authority can be anybody's guess.

 

Thing is, when  managers (not family) fall under this kind of an ownership group, things seem to come out of the blue.  

 

Now, Linden hired Benning in 2014.  When Benning's contract came up in 2018 he was reportedly re-signed by and is now reporting to Francesco.  So what?  This puts Linden out of the loop.  Linden was the PR darling and turned out not to be the smooth talker they hoped.  

 

When Benning was still reporting to Linden, I imagine that  they hashed things out between themselves and came to a consensus before their monthly meetings with ownership.  Recently, I suspect that Francesco likes Bennings ideas without Linden's input.  It could very well be the case that since the draft, moves have been made without the Presidents approval.  Wouldn't this make Linden feel irrelevant and make him want to quit?

 

Francesco may very well have not known that he had done anything wrong protocol-wise.  Or it may have been Luigi's call.

 

I don't know what will happen in the next year but I would suggest that this split was announced the moment the last outstanding contract was finalized (Virtanen) and that the strategic plan had been set for the next year.  There was nothing important for Linden to do until the mid season reviews next season.  

 

I have been trying to figure out why there have been some odd decisions made by the management group over the past 4 years.  I think that on their own, all parties are bright people.  They have been making decisions on a consensus basis which means that there could have been some argument over certain points.  If Linden won one, and Benning the next this could account for the "serving 2 masters" narrative that they have been criticized for.  Just maybe, this plan will unfold in a better way if whatever plan is unfolding doesn't get watered down.

[Glug Datt]

13 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I agree with a lot of what VanGnome had to say.

 

We need to separate Linden: the Canucks player/hero who took the team to the SCF in the 90s, and Linden: the inexperienced executive who seemed to learn on the fly and was out of his element. 

 

I believe Linden was hired as a ploy to engage Canucks fans and entice us to support the team through the rebuild. Not for his great wisdom on how to run an NHL hockey team. Canucks fans can now see the finish line, we're excited with our prospects and the future, Linden's job is done.  

totally agree, in fact I posted this very argument in another thread, apparently you beat me to it...

 

kind of knew it all along I guess but maybe wanted to believe linden had some magical hockey prowess that would take us to the next level. 

 

oh well, he served the purpose and everyone is moving on.. still cherish that 94 run

[oldnews]

8 hours ago, JamesB said:

 

I am surprised to see people turning against Linden. We do not know the exact cause of his departure.

 

We do know the following:

 

1. The primary problem was some disagreement or conflict between Aquilini (FA) and Linden.

 

2. We don't know exactly what the conflict was. I suspect that Green and especially Benning know more than they are saying about the conflict, but I believe their claim that they do not know everything and were surprised by what happened.

 

3. In his public statements Linden always emphasized draft and patience -- much more than anyone else in the organization. So I am inclined to believe the widely reported assessment that Linden favoured patience and FA was more inclined to go for a quick fix (or quick injection to box office success).

 

4. It has also been widely and credibly reported that Linden was a key voice in the early decisions -- that he acted on behalf of the owners, could veto moves, and often got involved in details including trade negotiations, signing or re-signing players, etc. However, apparently there was a change in the recent past with Benning talking directly to FA much more. Possibly Linden did not like being dropped out of the loop or being pushing into more of a "figurehead" role.

 

5. Possibly Linden's departure will put FA on the defensive for a while and make him less likely to interfere or to push Benning in the direction of "win now" instead "rebuild properly". Or maybe it has the opposite effect.

 

Anyway, I have always the highest regard for Linden. He was a great player and was and is a great person. If the Canucks do go on to develop a successful team two or three years down the road, I think a lot of the credit should go to Linden. I am very sorry to see him out of the picture for now. He pulled FA's chestnuts out of the fire when he agreed to become President after the Torts disaster. I would have expected a bit more loyalty from FA.

Well stated - agree with much of it.

 

I think Linden did an excellent job personally - he hired the right GM - they collaborated to generate a good coaching progression plan (I like Green and believe he is the right coach to develop this group).

 

Whether ownership is 'failing' the team?   Who can say?  What I would say is that they failed the team in the interim before this current management group.  The Tortorella misadventure - was costly and ill-advised - and certainly doesn't appear to have Mike Gillis' fingerprints on it.

 

So - that was apparently corrected when complete hockey jurisdiction was handed over to Linden.  And here's where I think people get carried away with assumptions that he lacked the intellect (and experience) to pull that role off.  He wasn't required to know every aspect of building a successful franchise - he was charged with hiring the right GM and working with them to set the transiition on course.

 

Personally, I think Linden did a good job of that - as evidenced by the asset outcomes they currently enjoy.  People can make meaningless claims that their youth haven't proven anything - but youth by definition haven't proven anything - until they do.  Expecting premature outcomes of players - many of whom haven't hit NHL ice yet is no more reasonable than assuming they're an inevitable SCC core.  All we can do is assess them with reasonable tempering either way - optimism maybe, with realistic expectations.  But one thing is clear - the Linden/Benning team has transitioned this franchise and have the young assets to grow into the roles vacated by the departed core.   There are very few assets remaining here that predate Linden's tenure.  I don't see any potential asset decisions that could have been significant enough to separate Benning and Linden - I think it clearly tracks towards a disagreement between Linden and Aquilini (and perhaps that's why 12 tweets followed....)

 

So what is the substance of the difference between Linden and Aquilini - that lead to this departure?  Who knows - but one of the more plausible possibilities may be the one you refer to in point 4 - one that I believe was implied by James Cybulski.  If the hockey/player personnel decisions are more directly assigned to Benning, effectively inching Linden out of his role of overseeing those hockey decisions - that would be a fundamental reneg on the terms under which he was hired.  There would not necessarily have to be a rift between Linden and Benning of any substance in order for that progression to rub Linden in a fundamentally problematic way.  At the same time, once Linden hired Benning, he effectively hired the person whose mandate was to define those decisions - moreso than Linden himself, despite his role of overseeing the GM.   If this is the subtance of the dispute, I think it's a reasonable one from Linden's perspective, but not overly problematic from a fan perspective - unless Aquilini intends to alter the directions coming from what was previously Linden.  That does not appear to be the messaging - and Linden leaving over the 'restructuring' may be enough to insulate/protect the Benning/Green project to some extent (if there's anything to it in the first instance).  In any event - we'll see what kind of autonomy Benning maintains, and we won't really know until we've had the chance to track his subsequent moves....but this poiint - #4 - may be the most plausible.  To some extent, the extent to which Linden did his job - ie the momentum Benning/Green now appear to have - could be part of what made himself somewhat redundant.  For me that is largely positive - because I think he has left at a point where the team is in good hands and correctly directed - and I never really expected Linden to be more competent in all aspects than the GM, coaches, scouting staff etc that he had a hand in recreating/transitioning.  If he felt less focal or critical to the team's decisions and success, perhaps that isn't really negative - but at the same time might make him wonder if his time is better spent with his family - and perhaps he in part also didn't feel particularly respected - for where the team sits today relative to the shambles it was in when his character was required to piece it back together.

 

[spook007]

11 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

We have deep pocket owners who really care about this team and this city and are willing to spend money.

 

In the real world, that’s about as good as it gets.

 

Of course, the ideal owner is one with a tonne of money, who spends as much as possible on the franchise, is knowledgeable on both the hockey and business side, creates the right vision for the team, hires the best people to implement it, and then steps back and just lets management run the show without any ownership interference.

 

But that owner only exists in fairy tales.

 

Unless you find some rich Middle eastern Sheik a la PSG or Manchester City, and convince him a hockey franchise is what he needs to improve his image.

[Gaudette Celly]

The organization is certainly in better shape than when the new regime came in.  Scouting has been revamped and that has really shown the past couple drafts with Brackett running things.  Salary cap looks excellent moving forward into the next phase and RFAs were re-signed at good deals.  Ryan Johnson looked like a great asset, taking over not only player development but as GM to oversee the Comets.  Then there's the bringing in of Malholtra and now White to the coaching staff.  Hockey ops looks to be in good hands, but more work probably remains on the business and marketing end.

[spook007]

7 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

2014  -  48 wins

 2015   -  30 wins

2016  -    31 wins

2017 - 30 wins

 

Is this what you call moving in the right direction... really ?  Oh yeah, have you heard about our prospects.....   ?   NHL is a results based business.

Linden may have been moved out because he was not going to be the one moving out JB in the next year . 

 

TBH the club wasted 2 years of the rebuild process...... trying to maintain a playoff spot. 

So wrong....

How are you going to win more games while rebuilding a team through the draft without any prospects?

Thought you were team tank? 

So what is moving forward? win games or draft high? And never mind the 2 years 'wasted'....

[Undrafted]

2 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

When Benning was still reporting to Linden, I imagine that  they hashed things out between themselves and came to a consensus before their monthly meetings with ownership.  Recently, I suspect that Francesco likes Bennings ideas without Linden's input.  It could very well be the case that since the draft, moves have been made without the Presidents approval.  Wouldn't this make Linden feel irrelevant and make him want to quit?

This actually makes a lot of sense.  I recall a rare interview with Francesco published by SN several months ago where he was quoted as saying that he wanted to "leave the hockey decisions to the hockey experts".  And the truth is, when it comes to the business of running a hockey team, Linden is NOT one of those experts while Benning most certainly is.  So it's more than plausible that Linden's role as the 'middleman' between Benning and the Aquilnis became irrelevant, which would lead Linden to question, "Why am I even here then?"

[smokes]

Ask Ottawa fans how Aquilini is failing this team. Ask around the NHL on how many Execs don't want to work for the Carolina owner. Even closer to home ask the Grizzlies fan about how John McCaw and Michael Heisley failed Vancouver and you will get an idea that it's not that bad right now. 

[spook007]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

We have had a bad team for long stretches, but rarely hadamazement that was considered disfunctional or even below average.

 

I suspect if you took a poll of hockey people and insiders now, they would consider our management team in the bottom 5 of the league.

 

There is clearly more to the Linden story than we have heardz. Aquilini texting and retracting statements, the suddennness ofntrh departire surprising everyone, etc.

 

Linden and Benning were obviously both going to get fired at some point, it is kind of expected when taking on a team on the down slide.  You get it turned around and don’t last to reap the rewards.

This is unfortunately very true... Hope JB gets to reap the rewards of the seeds sawn.

Maybe he will have to start winning games over the next season for that reason. Even if he may have wanted to give it another year.

[apollo]

We have an incredible ownership group. They spare no expense to help the team. 

 

People seem to forget we had owners who weren't so wealthy and our team was ran cheap as it gets. 

[Hairy Kneel]

16 hours ago, Qwags said:

If anyone has failed the team, it's the media. It takes a certain level of talent to consistently make stories out of nothing.

Definitely. Why not let's wait for the season to play itself out before we bash the team. I have a feeling the media is going to be disappointed.

[Silky mitts]

People need to lay off fa, he spends to the cap and wants to win , maybe he needs to be a little more hands off but I like the way this team is headed 

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Being one of the worst teams in the league for  3 years  generally should give you a few top prospects.... 

Which is the point of moving in the right direction includes having some very bad years.  Some could argue (including me) that we are still lacking at least one top defenseman and another  elite forward, which means moving in the right direction would include two more years of  30 wins.   Unlikely thats going to happen two more years in a row, but at least we should get a decent pick this year again and who knows maybe the lottery gods will be in our favour this time.  

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, combover said:

I’d say yes and it has been since 2013

ownership likes a puppet and they’ve got one now. Speak up or stand up for yourself or your views and out the door.

Mixed messages has been the norm.

itll be a great day when they aren’t the owners anymore. 

 

 

Ownership meddling is conjecture regarding this team, we have great owners that have been willing to spend to the cap for, well since the cap came in pretty much, and are Canuck fans as much as business owners.  We have it really good with them, as good as any team in Canada, and better than a lot of other teams in the league.

[vannuck59]

This is a business and nothing else , Ownership wants a cup ok, then stop worrying about feelings. Resigning the  Sedins  after failed cup runs was an epic fail . If you are not going to support them why have them. The game today is evolving fast mobile d skill on all 4 lines is the new NHL. Jim Benning Drafting so far so good free agent signing not so good . This year showed that free agents signed would help the team not hinder it. Signed a fourth Line that will help the kids and free up top 6 spots. Eriksson needs to start producing or sit him. Replace him with some one who try's. Gagner again produce or your gone. And so on and so forth . Clean house trade for as many draft picks as you can at the dead line. Sutter is not a corner stone for building your Franchise  . Horvat is, Boeser is, Look for that character. Benning needed to load up on this last draft at least 2 more first rounders . But is stuck on the slow and steady wins the race. 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Definitely. Why not let's wait for the season to play itself out before we bash the team. I have a feeling the media is going to be disappointed.

It's weird how things are so flipp flopped with the media out East. THN regrets posting a cover issue of Clarkson bleeding blue after they signed him, well because they have mentioned it since they made a mistake to wasting a cover on him, and TO is pretty much non-stop talk about who's going to be Captain and raise the cup first/ Tavares or Mathews.  In other words they love their favourites and play to it  .(THN does a good job of trying to remain neutral, Tavares got the recent cover and a lot of the issue was about that, but they also snuck a one page article in on why they won't win the cup just with him, (Campbell is sarcastic as usual making comments about both hands covered in 5-6 cup rings before he's done, plan the parade etc) but for the most part they don't trash players and teams as much as the media seems to out West.  Maybe that is part of the basis for the eastern bias ( or perceived one) one coast rips everything the other pays tribute to everything, kind of a ying-yang media thing.

 

Maybe It brainwashes people here and makes fanatical fans (TO sells out and has 40-100k fans outside watching every single game), two years ago I met a TO fan near OTT where I live (mostly OTT fans but lots of TO fans nearby ugh) who said that TO is currently in a four year window to win a cup and proceeding to explain why as I laughed so hard inside I started to choke a bit...at first I thought he was joking when I realized he wasn't that's when I almost choked excused myself from the fund raiser went to the washroom and laughed hard.  Spent the evening watching the table talk like Alien freaks about how Mathews and the rest of the kids would all cost ten plus million...and how they would probably win before that but then get separated.  Wow.  Living around the media over here is a lot different, maybe they are horrible when things go bad but propaganda breeds this sort of ignorance, and they seem to get a steady diet.  Must be good for the bottom line, Aquaman should by a media outlet and start pumping it out.

[combover]

10 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

That's pathetic. You are who? 

You hack on owners who have bought the franchise saved it paid for huge improvements and then you what? You complain like a little bitch. Disgusting. The absolute worst kind of fan who puts themselves first above all. Like you know something? Give me a break! The franchise would be better off if you just became a leafs fan buddy.

They didn’t save sh.. they fought in court to screw there partner. Burke didn’t back down GONE, Gillis called them out after THEY hired torts GONe linden has been at odds since his second year since he a loyal guy that stand up for what he believes GONE.

You just stay in your heard of sheep and turn a blind eye to what a SUPERFAN owner is actually more detriamental that one that allows the people that have the sense and now how to do their job.

a team that needs a full rebuild hires a rookie president with NO experience running a team a rookie gm that and rookie coaches that’s gotta be a first sure makes it easier to control them. Puppets. 

Ive been a fan of this team for a long time just because I don’t like the current undermining owners I should pick a new team.....that might be how you roll bandwagon boy but Ill stick with the team I’ve seen go though garbage GMs and tough times plenty of times before. 

 

[JeremyCuddles]

Dang it’s getting heated in here. I need an adult.