Rob_Zepp Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, babalu said: From what I have seen Green seems to play the vets over the kids. I have a hard time believing that they are going to waive Gagner ever if Goldobin is better at camp. EVERY coach plays vets over kids until the kids show they earn it. He has first line in terms of AOTI far above the "veterans" so you are not correct that he does it in general - he does it when the kids have not outplayed the vets. He felt Horvat was outplaying Henrik so, voila, Horvat plays more minutes. You can have a hard time believing anything you want but last year they waived players, like Burmistrov, to make room for younger players who outplayed him. What kid do you feel has demonstrably outplayed a vet but not been rewarded as such? Seemed to me the better each young player played, the more ice time they got. Further, what you see and what a coach sees are different - you may see a Goldy make a couple of really fancy moves but a coach sees a guy not hustling back and having it lead to several chances/goals - things you won't notice on TV or even at the game if you just follow the puck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Rob_Zepp said: EVERY coach plays vets over kids until the kids show they earn it. He has first line in terms of AOTI far above the "veterans" so you are not correct that he does it in general - he does it when the kids have not outplayed the vets. He felt Horvat was outplaying Henrik so, voila, Horvat plays more minutes. You can have a hard time believing anything you want but last year they waived players, like Burmistrov, to make room for younger players who outplayed him. What kid do you feel has demonstrably outplayed a vet but not been rewarded as such? Seemed to me the better each young player played, the more ice time they got. Further, what you see and what a coach sees are different - you may see a Goldy make a couple of really fancy moves but a coach sees a guy not hustling back and having it lead to several chances/goals - things you won't notice on TV or even at the game if you just follow the puck. So you would prefer we waive goldy and keep gagner because gagner plays the right way. Why are we prioritising a guy like Gagner over youth with much higher upside. By the end of last year goldy was showing he was buying in defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, babalu said: So you would prefer we waive goldy and keep gagner because gagner plays the right way. Why are we prioritising a guy like Gagner over youth with much higher upside. By the end of last year goldy was showing he was buying in defensively. If Goldy is not capable of playing in the NHL and beating out a player like Gagner....sure, waive his azz as he will not be of value to the team. No one is prioritizing anyone but if a kid is given the chance (and this will be Goldy's third year with the team) and still doesn't "get it", how much longer do you wait when you have lots of other youngsters willing to outwork both he and Gagner and leave those two in the dust. If you are saying the only thing holding you back from a full-time gig in NHL with an up and coming team is to listen to the coaches and outplay Sam Gagner and you are not willing/able to do those two things - why are you worth anyone's "priority"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Just now, Rob_Zepp said: If Goldy is not capable of playing in the NHL and beating out a player like Gagner....sure, waive his azz as he will not be of value to the team. No one is prioritizing anyone but if a kid is given the chance (and this will be Goldy's third year with the team) and still doesn't "get it", how much longer do you wait when you have lots of other youngsters willing to outwork both he and Gagner and leave those two in the dust. If you are saying the only thing holding you back from a full-time gig in NHL with an up and coming team is to listen to the coaches and outplay Sam Gagner and you are not willing/able to do those two things - why are you worth anyone's "priority"? yay let's keep the plugs if they play better in camp and waive the youth with offensive upside. Way to rebuild! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_theRyper Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Dont worry we won't keep signing temp plugs once we have enough young new talent.. That isnt full of maybe and what ifs.. guys like Goldy really arent IMO an upgrade. If it means we only see one new face this year in Petterson. Thats okay for me. We still have jake and bo and brock and maybe some good call up time with Guadette, Dahlen and Gadjovich... It cant all happen in one year.. Or two or three. This rebuild will take a decade when you honestly look back at when it started.. Whinning about not playing mediocre players over other old albeit mediocre players is redundant. Cheers to those patiently waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 41 minutes ago, babalu said: Yeah but you act like I don't have a right to my opinion and that I somehow owe it to them to shut up and do what ever because they are smarter than me. ok bud. thats funny, i got the impression that you felt that your opinion was more knowledgable that anyone elses. it is okay to disagree with others opinions but we have to realize that opinions, don't necessarily mean truth. we can always agree to disagree. cheers lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 At this point, that deal would fetch a 3rd if we were lucky. More likely a 4th or 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Rick_theRyper said: Dont worry we won't keep signing temp plugs once we have enough young new talent.. That isnt full of maybe and what ifs.. guys like Goldy really arent IMO an upgrade. If it means we only see one new face this year in Petterson. Thats okay for me. We still have jake and bo and brock and maybe some good call up time with Guadette, Dahlen and Gadjovich... It cant all happen in one year.. Or two or three. This rebuild will take a decade when you honestly look back at when it started.. Whinning about not playing mediocre players over other old albeit mediocre players is redundant. Cheers to those patiently waiting. Gagner is a mediocre player. Goldobin has skill. If we end up waiving him because he is beat out by a player like Gagner at camp, we will regret it. This is a rebuild. We should be prioritising youth with high end skill over vets who won't be here when it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Just now, -AJ- said: At this point, that deal would fetch a 3rd if we were lucky. More likely a 4th or 5th. I honestly could care less what we get back for these guys. I see it as addition by subtraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaMash Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Benning should just email this to the rest of the league and see if anyone bites: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_theRyper Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 22 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: If Goldy is not capable of playing in the NHL and beating out a player like Gagner....sure, waive his azz as he will not be of value to the team. No one is prioritizing anyone but if a kid is given the chance (and this will be Goldy's third year with the team) and still doesn't "get it", how much longer do you wait when you have lots of other youngsters willing to outwork both he and Gagner and leave those two in the dust. If you are saying the only thing holding you back from a full-time gig in NHL with an up and coming team is to listen to the coaches and outplay Sam Gagner and you are not willing/able to do those two things - why are you worth anyone's "priority"? Right lol agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, BananaMash said: Benning should just email this to the rest of the league and see if anyone bites: this recently hired gm is calling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_theRyper Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, babalu said: Gagner is a mediocre player. Goldobin has skill. If we end up waiving him because he is beat out by a player like Gagner at camp, we will regret it. This is a rebuild. We should be prioritising youth with high end skill over vets who won't be here when it matters. Dolby aka Goldolbins career will end in similar fashion filled with heart wrenching tears of folks like you swearing till the end he would have accomplished so much.. He can and might prove his worth but he has yet to do so. I dont see the argument here. I thought we all wanted Guadette on more than Ottawa's B list member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Just now, Rick_theRyper said: Dolby aka Goldolbins career will end in similar fashion filled with heart wrenching tears of folks like you swearing till the end he would have accomplished so much.. He can and might prove his worth but he has yet to do so. I dont see the argument here. I thought we all wanted Guadette on more than Ottawa's B list member. Nothing heart wrenching. Just prefer to see him over plugs. Goldy came from San Jose not Ottawa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 How can you say no to this guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, babalu said: yay let's keep the plugs if they play better in camp and waive the youth with offensive upside. Way to rebuild! If they cannot outplay the “plugs” why do you want them? Canucks finally have enough up and coming players that you don’t have to settle for players that cannot outplay “plugs”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: If they cannot outplay the “plugs” why do you want them? Canucks finally have enough up and coming players that you don’t have to settle for players that cannot outplay “plugs”. So just because someone outplays Goldy at camp we should waive him in favour of a vet. I honestly think you are overrating how many of our prospects will even get a shot on the big club this year. BTW this will be only the 2nd full year goldobin will be on the Canucks as he was acquired at the trade deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowtieCanuck Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 If other teams wanted them, they would have signed them. Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 4 hours ago, babalu said: Gagner is a mediocre player. Goldobin has skill. If we end up waiving him because he is beat out by a player like Gagner at camp, we will regret it. This is a rebuild. We should be prioritising youth with high end skill over vets who won't be here when it matters. Last season Green said he's not interested in players who can score but with whom you can't win. His skills is not going to do anything if he can't play defence or refuses to pay the price to win. Their objective is to win a Cup. They'll prioritise players they think they can win with. It's a waste of time and resources to try and develop players who won't become NHLers. If they cut bait it's not because they think all that highly of Gagner but simply because their time can be used better elsewhere. Aquilini referenced Colorado and New Jersey as teams who turned things around quickly. Colorado was last overall and New Jersey last in the East - both made the playoffs. Canucks aren't just going to put youth in the lineup if they can't help the team win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: If they cannot outplay the “plugs” why do you want them? Canucks finally have enough up and coming players that you don’t have to settle for players that cannot outplay “plugs”. Rob I am somewhere in the middle with this On one hand I agree with you that, if you can;t beat a plug, you don't deserve a spot....I am in agreement with you on this However, Babalu brings up an interesting point and that is if Gagner has reached his ceiling and is now declining and Goldobin is equal (or close), but has not reached his ceiling (in TG and JB opinion not ours) Then I agee with Babalu, that Goldobin is a better choice to keep and Gagner gets waive...…..no brainer!.0 Babalu BUT.....and there always is a but, Babalu…………... IF, TG and JB, think Goldobin will not improve and they are equal or close, then it is their decision and not yours, mine or Rob I personally support your right to your opinion...…...but I would suggest you consider Rob Zepps and Smithers Joe opinions As Rob draws from pro experience and Joe is just friggin old and wise (a little poke there Joe, lol) Seriously though....welcome to the forums, keep posting, it is an interesting debate, I like that Robb has to defend is arguement Because honestly...…..he's probably one of the better posters on here for his insights, and it draws out his opinions...... PS...…....express an opinion, but defend with fact. Or accept defeat graciously and learn from it...Idid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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