[Proposal] Gagner & Del Zotto

[Hairy Kneel]

I think Palmu would fill in nicely for Gagners. Score more goals and be better on the forecheck (like Hansen) or a longshot like Gadjovich, But they are both extreme longshots I'm rooting for.

 

[babalu]

2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Rob

I am somewhere in the middle with this

On one hand I agree with you that, if you can;t beat a plug, you don't deserve a spot....I am in agreement with you on this

However, Babalu brings up an interesting point

and that is if Gagner has reached his ceiling and is now declining

and Goldobin is equal (or close), but has not reached his ceiling (in TG and JB opinion not ours)

Then I agee with Babalu, that Goldobin is a better choice to keep and Gagner gets waive...…..no brainer!.0

 

Babalu

BUT.....and there always is a but, Babalu…………...

IF, TG and JB, think Goldobin will not improve and they are equal or close, then it is their decision and not yours, mine or Rob

I personally support your right to your opinion...…...but I would suggest you consider Rob Zepps and Smithers Joe opinions

As Rob draws from pro experience and Joe is just friggin old and wise (a little poke there Joe, lol)

 

Seriously though....welcome to the forums, keep posting, it is an interesting debate, I like that Robb has to defend is arguement

Because honestly...…..he's probably one of the better posters on here for his insights, and it draws out his opinions......

 

PS...…....express an opinion, but defend with fact. Or accept defeat graciously and learn from it...Idid

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. This is a forum. People have differing opinions. We aren't going to always agree.

 

My opinion hasn't been changed. I still think I would prefer to see Goldobin in the lineup over Gagner for the very reason you said. Goldobin is close in skill right now to Gagner and still has room for improvement.

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, babalu said:

From what I have seen Green seems to play the vets over the kids. I have a hard time believing that they are going to waive Gagner ever if Goldobin is better at camp.

Why don't we wait and see, I think your worried a bit from what we saw from Willie D, Goldobin and Boeser got a lot of minutes last year (and nobody else was ready yet)....that said there is limited space in the top nine (our 4th line is committed to protect and give the rest space so we won't see any rookies on it ), maybe one spot on the third and lone on the second for Goldobin and Leipsic.  Goldobin doesn't have a long leash anymore like he did last year either, with guys chasing him from every direction if he doesn't produce he will go down, if he's outproducing Gagne he won't have anything to worry about.

 

Gaunce will probably get waived,  for those who think Gagne should be instead he was scoring 40-50pts at the same age, something to consider, and was seen as a break-out candidate up until only a few years ago.  Don't be shocked if he's manning the second line center position and feeding Pettersson and vice versa instead of Sutter or Gaudette, the latter who I believe will make the former expendable by the TDL.   We all want Gaunce, Goldobin etc to work out, but if they aren't out producing the vets someone else will come and get their turn..and you have to admit management set the bar pretty low with Gagne and even Sutter although he does other things to earn his pay cheque that matter just as much as getting 25-30pts.

 

edit:  I see plenty has already been discussed after you made this post, this was my opinion without reading any of that sorry for any parroting.  In the end we won't need to worry about it in the long-term, Gagne won't be re-signed and a rookie will definitely get his slot eventually 

[babalu]

3 hours ago, mll said:

Last season Green said he's not interested in players who can score but with whom you can't win.  His skills is not going to do anything if he can't play defence or refuses to pay the price to win.

 

Their objective is to win a Cup.  They'll prioritise players they think they can win with.  It's a waste of time and resources to try and develop players who won't become NHLers.  If they cut bait it's not because they think all that highly of Gagner but simply because their time can be used better elsewhere.

 

Aquilini referenced Colorado and New Jersey as teams who turned things around quickly.  Colorado was last overall and New Jersey last in the East - both made the playoffs.  Canucks aren't just going to put youth in the lineup if they can't help the team win.

 

 

 

 

Do you really think their objective is to win a cup with the lineup the way it is this year? 

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, babalu said:

Do you really think their objective is to win a cup with the lineup the way it is this year? 

Maybe he watched Vegas and loved Disney movies, and believes anything is possible...

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I think Palmu would fill in nicely for Gagners. Score more goals and be better on the forecheck (like Hansen) or a longshot like Gadjovich, But they are both extreme longshots I'm rooting for.

 

Palmy could be our secret weapon, the next Gourde...

[mll]

2 hours ago, babalu said:

Do you really think their objective is to win a cup with the lineup the way it is this year? 

 

To win a Cup you have to start preparing today.

 

In the 2017 finals, Nashville players kept on saying that they reached the finals because of the work that started 3 seasons ago when Laviolette took over.  They were a lot of movements over that period - several buyouts even, but the team itself kept on getting better. 

 

Play the right way and if better players come along it just makes the team stronger.  New Jersey and Colorado are not waiting on prospects.  Their team continues to improve and will only get better.  As they make trades or prospects earn spots they'll replace their lesser players but in the meantime they move forward.

 

Last summer Green was telling Portland media that when he took over the job with Johnston they never discussed about making the playoffs but about how to hang up Championship banners.  He has the same mindset coming into Vancouver.  The team is going to get better each and every year.  A lot of the things he said in Portland he has repeated in Utica and probably still thinks the same way.

 

Portland had been the worst team in the league for several years and it's new owners that hired them as GM and AGM.  They made the playoffs by year 2, reached the finals in years 3 and 4 before winning it all in year 5.   The roster changed considerably over that time but the culture that got installed early on carried over from one year to the next.  

 

[Ojibwa72]

3 hours ago, babalu said:

Do you really think their objective is to win a cup with the lineup the way it is this year? 

The objective is always to win the cup. That doesn't mean this year either but having the vision to look forward and what is best for the team now and in future.

[Hairy Kneel]

2 hours ago, mll said:

 

To win a Cup you have to start preparing today.

 

In the 2017 finals, Nashville players kept on saying that they reached the finals because of the work that started 3 seasons ago when Laviolette took over.  They were a lot of movements over that period - several buyouts even, but the team itself kept on getting better. 

Robbing Montreal of a good defenseman for starters.

[Hairy Kneel]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Palmy could be our secret weapon, the next Gourde...

If Palmu scores lets say 5 goals in preseason (or more) do you think he'd be added as the 13th forward or sent down to be called up whenever that first injury happens?

[kloubek]

2 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

If Palmu scores lets say 5 goals in preseason (or more) do you think he'd be added as the 13th forward or sent down to be called up whenever that first injury happens?

Personally, I think for Palmu some seasoning in the AHL wouldn't be a bad thing.  But if he was indeed so successful in camp, I'd say he would be the first of the call-ups.  A lot of that might have to do with Dahlen as well; I'm very interested to see what kind of camp he will have.  

[IBatch]

12 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

If Palmu scores lets say 5 goals in preseason (or more) do you think he'd be added as the 13th forward or sent down to be called up whenever that first injury happens?

He'd surely put himself in the right spot for a nine game tryout ...these are the type of problems that we can hope for.  

[Hairy Kneel]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

He'd surely put himself in the right spot for a nine game tryout ...these are the type of problems that we can hope for.  

I was just thinking the same thing ie that it would make him earn a 9 (10?) game tryout.

[kloubek]

30 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I was just thinking the same thing ie that it would make him earn a 9 (10?) game tryout.

Benning has said he will find a way to play the kids of they earn it, so I think that's likely a given if he can show well in both camp and Utica.  Not a whole lot has been said of Palmu (probably due to his size) but I actually think he will be a key member of our 3rd line at minimum in the future. 

Back to the "proposal", I think I want to keep MDZ for now unless Hutton or Pouliot surprise supremely at camp.  For Gagner, it really depends how he shows at camp.  Even last season his point totals were not insignificant, as frustrating as he was to watch sometimes.  I'd hate to lose him to waivers, but our young guys have gotta play.

[Rob_Zepp]

13 hours ago, babalu said:

So just because someone outplays Goldy at camp we should waive him in favour of a vet. I honestly think you are overrating how many of our prospects will even get a shot on the big club this year. BTW this will be only the 2nd full year goldobin will be on the Canucks as he was acquired at the trade deadline.

Depends on how they get outplayed.   If Goldy doesn't come to camp in outstanding shape and show 100% commitment to the effort then why do you want him?    If he cannot outplay these "plugs" you speak of, why would you want him?

[IBatch]

49 minutes ago, kloubek said:

Benning has said he will find a way to play the kids of they earn it, so I think that's likely a given if he can show well in both camp and Utica.  Not a whole lot has been said of Palmu (probably due to his size) but I actually think he will be a key member of our 3rd line at minimum in the future. 

Back to the "proposal", I think I want to keep MDZ for now unless Hutton or Pouliot surprise supremely at camp.  For Gagner, it really depends how he shows at camp.  Even last season his point totals were not insignificant, as frustrating as he was to watch sometimes.  I'd hate to lose him to waivers, but our young guys have gotta play.

Gagne could center Pettersson on the second line to start, although it's hard to tell for sure. He's done that before and done a decent job and he's still in his prime, and undoubtedly is aware of his situation with young talented players breathing down his neck, not to mention the media and fans calling for his neck, and for the most part unfairly so, everyone including him knows he's a placeholder.   Gags just made me run on sentence.  Now I hate him too.  He's not ideally suited in a shutdown line, not a fourth liner either...sucks that the same could be said about Goldobin.  Granlund, Leipsic, Gaunce and Goldobin will end up fighting it out it wouldn't hurt to get on the phone and try and find a spot for one of these guys someplace else, but it's also not a big deal if we waive one or two and they get picked up, especially because it will mean a rookie has earned a spot.

[Pepe Silvia]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Gagne could center Pettersson on the second line to start, although it's hard to tell for sure. He's done that before and done a decent job and he's still in his prime, and undoubtedly is aware of his situation with young talented players breathing down his neck, not to mention the media and fans calling for his neck, and for the most part unfairly so, everyone including him knows he's a placeholder.   Gags just made me run on sentence.  Now I hate him too.  He's not ideally suited in a shutdown line, not a fourth liner either...sucks that the same could be said about Goldobin.  Granlund, Leipsic, Gaunce and Goldobin will end up fighting it out it wouldn't hurt to get on the phone and try and find a spot for one of these guys someplace else, but it's also not a big deal if we waive one or two and they get picked up, especially because it will mean a rookie has earned a spot.

Gaunce will be waived. He isn't a top 6 player and we've signed vets to fill out most the bottom 6. He doesn't hold any trade value and I doubt anyone claims him.

[SingleThorn]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

He'd surely put himself in the right spot for a nine game tryout ...these are the type of problems that we can hope for.  

 

1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I was just thinking the same thing ie that it would make him earn a 9 (10?) game tryout.

The myth of the 9 game tryout lives ! Means nothing to non CHL juniors. At the AHL level, it means nothing.

[Rob_Zepp]

11 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Rob

I am somewhere in the middle with this

On one hand I agree with you that, if you can;t beat a plug, you don't deserve a spot....I am in agreement with you on this

However, Babalu brings up an interesting point

and that is if Gagner has reached his ceiling and is now declining

and Goldobin is equal (or close), but has not reached his ceiling (in TG and JB opinion not ours)

Then I agee with Babalu, that Goldobin is a better choice to keep and Gagner gets waive...…..no brainer!.0

 

Babalu

BUT.....and there always is a but, Babalu…………...

IF, TG and JB, think Goldobin will not improve and they are equal or close, then it is their decision and not yours, mine or Rob

I personally support your right to your opinion...…...but I would suggest you consider Rob Zepps and Smithers Joe opinions

As Rob draws from pro experience and Joe is just friggin old and wise (a little poke there Joe, lol)

 

Seriously though....welcome to the forums, keep posting, it is an interesting debate, I like that Robb has to defend is arguement

Because honestly...…..he's probably one of the better posters on here for his insights, and it draws out his opinions......

 

PS...…....express an opinion, but defend with fact. Or accept defeat graciously and learn from it...Idid

If truly equal, you obviously keep Goldy.   If Gagner is as bad as many of you say and Goldy cannot outplay him, why do you want him?

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Pepe Silvia said:

Gaunce will be waived. He isn't a top 6 player and we've signed vets to fill out most the bottom 6. He doesn't hold any trade value and I doubt anyone claims him.

Me too.  Anyone that can go back to Utica (Gaudette) without having to get waived will have to play their heart out to make the team from the start, Gaunce will get waived (remember how some  people were worried we'd lose him to Vegas, well prepare for this possibility) but maybe Goldobin too.  Someone will sit in the press box too but even then there's simply not enough room when you add this all up with just one rookie (Pettersson) in the line-up.  Someone might give us something for Granlund, or for sure Bear (then just load up the first line for now) which would lighten the load...I know there is a lot of maybes coming up both in the prospects and the young guys already playing (JV) management had their hands full in the upcoming camp/pre-season deciding what's best both short and long-term, can't wait to see the vets get trimmed off when the time is right.