Waivers: who gets claimed?

[cowboy644]

17 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

 

[mikeyman109]

9 hours ago, sockeye said:

I'd rather keep Gaunce than Goldobin.  I wish I felt different but I haven't seen enough offence from Goldy and he hasn't shown many defensive skills. I haven't given up on Gaunce yet (for a bottom six player). Goldy will never be a bottom six player and I doubt he will be a top 6 player.  I hope I'm wrong.  Decisions would be easier if they didn't sign 3 free agents (maybe one or two but not 3 and not for long term contracts) then there would be less risk of losing a young player like Gaunce or Goldobin.

I am pleased with the three signings so i cant agree that its an issue. If Gaunce or Goldobin is considered good enough by another team that he will play with their big club, because they cant claim him and then send him down then so be it. Frankly i dont see many other clubs having a serious look at a last place teams waiver players as they will be hoping to send down their prospects as well.

I do agree with the statements on Goldobin, and as I have said earlier in this thread if he goes  on waivers i will be like "meh" He hasnt shown me enough to worry about losing him on the wire.

Gaunce I feel the same about. No offense, some defensive skills but we have a better chance with the three players we signed this summer. I was hoping for a better effort from him although the injuries have not helped

[elvis15]

12 hours ago, mikeyman109 said:

we will see what happens. LIke i said if he gets picked up he has to stay with a big club. could be good for the young kid

Yeah, I like Gaunce and wherever he lands I hope he does well. That's not Pepe's motivation though.

 

12 hours ago, Pepe Silvia said:

I hope he gets fired out a cannon into the sun but I'm not sure who to contact about that. Elon Musk?

See?

[Puckster]

We will see who comes out, after the Camp.

If the Team is committed to the Youth movement and to those that show that they belong....Goodbye Gagner/Gaunce Utica or ......

I believe the Team will be stronger for it.

 

If you can't Trade em for a Bag of Pucks....Waive em for buy out and hope they get claimed.

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

23 hours ago, Bert Diesel said:

I really think that next season will be the season of two Canucks teams; Utica perhaps being equally important to the future of the team. The Utica team looks to be stacked while the big club may be harder to play against but isn't yet drastically improved. The Beagle, Roussel signings (although we can all agree were far too long) have the positive effect of making the farm team stacked. This relieves a large degree of the pressure on youngsters like Juolevi, Dahlen, Gaudette, etc. from jumping right into significant NHL roles. When injuries occur, we can see how these guys are progressing and that adds some excitement to next season. I'd be really interested in watching the Utica games next year as they will be almost more intriguing. This being said, there is a potential roster crunch looming. With all the bodies that require waivers to go down to Utica, Benning may consider a trade or he may lose someone valuable. From a pure asset management standpoint, i think that certain players are far more likely to be claimed than others. I think the likelihood of a waiver claim goes something like this:
 

Leipsic 80% he will be taken (also 9 points in 14 games as a Canuck)
Goldobin 70% (too much offensive potential, someone is likely to give him a shot)
Granlund 50% (pretty solid season in 2016; reasonable contract)
Hutton 45% (teams might like his upside; contract might scare them away)
Biega 40% (some team might like him as a depth guy)
Gaunce 25% (not very physical and can’t score)
Boucher 20% (Not proven in the NHL)
Gagner 15% (Isn’t really effective and has negative value= if he got claimed it would be a positive for Vancouver)
Archibald 10% (Not really an NHL player)

 

 

It will help if someone gets put on injured reserved early in the season; could prevent someone being lost on waivers. Here’s how I hope it shakes down for the 23 man roster:
1. Marky
2. Nilsson
3. Boeser
4. Horvat
5. Baertschi
6. Eriksson
7. Sutter
8. Virtanen
9. Roussel
10. Beagle
11. Schaller
12. Leipsic
13. Petterson
14. Edler
15. Tanev
16. Gudbranson
17. Stecher
18. Del Zotto
19. Pouliot
20. Hutton
21. Goldobin
22. Granlund
23. Biega

Bubble/Utica/Waived
gaunce= waived (who would take him with so little offensive production)
Gagner=Waived (I hope they do this, nobody would claim his contract anyways and he is the least effective forward on the team)
Boucher= Waived
Archibald= Waived
Demko=Utica
Gaudette= Utica
Juolevi=Utica
Dahlen= Utica
Motte= Utica
Lind/Palmu/Gadjovich/Chatfield/Brisebois= Utica
Dipietro= Juniors

To summarize: waiving Gagner will prevent them from losing one of Granlund, Goldobin or Leipsic. Out of that list I would definitely keep Leipsic and prefer to see what the potential Goldobin has.

Well done...and I agree completely...the only thing I would change is Hutton's chance of being grabbed ( if waived at the start of the season)...with his cap hit, I think it is about a 20% chance someone grabs him...maybe less.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

11 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Risk/reward is still hypothetical.  It’s not based on any probable truths.

Sure it is, I'm not pulling Goldi being a potential core player out of thin air, it's based on his skill set, our team needs and what he has accomplished leading up to this spot.  He's got the tools to become one, he just needs the confidence to build on it, something that often takes more time than a training camp can show. 

 

11 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

 I just cooked up a random scenario where Gagner helps both in the short and long term.

 

No you fabricated a fantasy that has zero reality. Gagner is not going to be the key to Petterssons development. 

 

11 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

 If he nets a 3rd round pick at the TDL he’s worth more than Goldobin in KHL.  You can argue it’s more likely Goldy becomes a core player than Gagner’s return would return one.  Both situations are unlikely.  

 

 

11 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Goldobin is just a random bubble name as well.  Gagner and Goldy could easily both be on the team.

 

The point is, these players aren’t random percentages developing in a vacuum.  Guys influence their teammates in the room and on the ice.  Pettersson is likely to start at wing.

Why do you think that. Every indication is he’s going to be giving opportunity to start at center.  

 

11 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Other than Horvat, we’re short on offensively capable C’s.

What’s wrong with him playing on horvat’s wing. Pettersson bo and Brock Sounds pretty good to me. 

 

11 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

I don’t want Pettersson playing with Sutter or Beagle, obviously.

Jb stated he wasnt sutter play in more offensive opportunit to provide more offense. Putting Pettersson on his wing is a sure way to accomplish that. 

 

11 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

That leaves Granlund, who I think is better at wing himself... and another rookie in Gaudette.... or Gagner.

 

“Gagner isn't a particularly effective center though.  He's not a very good faceoff guy.  He's not a particularly strong defensive center.  He's more appropriately a winger conversion on  a skilled bottom six line - something the team doesn't really need at this point imo.

It's possible they use him as the missing / 4th center - with a pair of skilled young wingers in easier minutes - but personally I'd prefer to see them use Schaller - or Granlund - or even Gaudette if he proves ready.”

 

 

11 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

To start the year, a Baertschi-Gagner-Pettersson line for example would easily meet / exceed the Sedin/Vanek production of last season.  I think it also gives Pettersson two guys who can score / make plays but are established with Green as good enough two way guys.

Ewww, not only a terrible line, it's a terrible position to put a star rookie into the league.  Pettersson needs sheltering, not to be put on line where he’s expected to do it all and carry his line mates.  Who’s going to the net? Who’s battling in the corners to dig out the puck? Who’s playing responsible in the D zone?  Again, Gagner is not an effective center, he’s not strong enough defensively, lacks battle and is not effective 5 on 5.  I’m curious as to how you think that line would match the 146 points in put up by twins and Vanek.  Baertschi’s career high is 35 points, Gagner hit 50 points once in his career (while being placed in an extreme sheltered roll).  Unless you expect Pettersson to be just under a ppg as a 19 year (carrying the line), it’s just not going to happen. The statement that they would “easily” match is an extreme overstatement as the likely hood that line would do that is slim to none.   

[Rob_Zepp]

23 hours ago, ItsMillerTime said:

Goldobin should be 100 no way a former 1st rounder who is 22 goes unclaimed.

Happens all the time - why should Goldy be any different?    

[Baggins]

7 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Why do you think that. Every indication is he’s going to be giving opportunity to start at center. 

Canucks General Manager Jim Benning was glowing about Pettersson after the announcement. He sees Pettersson has a future centre, but knows he may start next season on the wing. There is nothing really surprising about that. I may disagree on where Pettersson eventually plays, but it’s smart for the Canucks to ease him in on the wing.

https://thecanuckway.com/2018/05/26/vancouver-canucks-benning-talks-about-pettersson-draft-and-roster/

 

Canucks GM Jim Benning says Elias Pettersson will start on the wing, but eventually move to the centre. Benning sees Pettersson getting power play duties, and being productive, as soon as he adjusts. Benning also discussed the draft and Dahlen, Juolevi

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040/benning-expect-pettersson-to-adjust-quickly-and-produce-1.1095290

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, Baggins said:

Canucks General Manager Jim Benning was glowing about Pettersson after the announcement. He sees Pettersson has a future centre, but knows he may start next season on the wing. There is nothing really surprising about that. I may disagree on where Pettersson eventually plays, but it’s smart for the Canucks to ease him in on the wing.

https://thecanuckway.com/2018/05/26/vancouver-canucks-benning-talks-about-pettersson-draft-and-roster/

 

Canucks GM Jim Benning says Elias Pettersson will start on the wing, but eventually move to the centre. Benning sees Pettersson getting power play duties, and being productive, as soon as he adjusts. Benning also discussed the draft and Dahlen, Juolevi

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040/benning-expect-pettersson-to-adjust-quickly-and-produce-1.1095290

Green stated that he’s going to try him everywhere at the start of the year and see what suits him best. 

[Baggins]

7 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Green stated that he’s going to try him everywhere at the start of the year and see what suits him best. 

Green figures he’ll experiment with Pettersson and get a long look at him in both positions through camp and the pre-season.

“I think it’s a bit of a wait and see,” the coach explains. “He could end up coming in and playing centre right away. We know he’s capable of playing both. We want to put this guy in a position to succeed. Even though sometimes people don’t always agree with it, we’re always trying to put players in positions to succeed – not just for that day and that week, but long term.

https://www.tsn.ca/travis-green-excited-to-see-top-prospect-pettersson-in-canucks-line-up-1.1111665

[Bert Diesel]

13 hours ago, stawns said:

There is zero chance, less than zero probably, that they even have a convo about waiving Granlund.  Gagne as well........they are both established NHL players, with Granny just coming into his prime years.

Less than zero? Unfortunately, I think you might be right. This management has rarely shown the ability to think outside the box. Gagner as an "established NHL player" is likely how management sees him after signing him to that very unadvisable deal. I love this managements draft record but they have not shown to be progressive thinkers in terms of roster construction. I can't see any scenario in which Gagner is worth a roster spot next season other than the fact that burying his contract in the minors makes management look bad. Also, a factor I think everyone forgets is that in order to keep Vancouver a destination free agents desire; it's dfficult to bury someone in the minors after a single bad season.

 

All this being said, I would send him down in a heartbeat. He doesn't offer anything that other younger players can't, there are already enough veteran players on the roster and he is blocking the paths of some of the younger players. I would be perturbed if we lost a guy like Leipsic (and to a lesser extent Goldobin or Granlund) to keep Gagner in order for management to save face. Gagner has already been sent down by Philly a few years ago and if he's claimed, it's a win-win for everyone (bad contract off the books). 

 

I agree with this poster about Granlund, I think he's a good utility guy to have and has more value than Gagner or Gaunce. 

[ItsMillerTime]

26 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Happens all the time - why should Goldy be any different?    

Honestly can't believe people are saying he wouldn't be claimed. We claimed Reid Boucher off waivers. Plus many teams claim worse players and give them a shot. You're crazy to think that with the way Goldobin performed last year he wouldn't be picked up? Jump off the Goldobin hate he has talent and if you want me to show you ill be glad. 

 

 

Had to show as much stuff so I don't get anymore ignorant replies such as yours.  

[Rob_Zepp]

10 minutes ago, ItsMillerTime said:

Honestly can't believe people are saying he wouldn't be claimed. We claimed Reid Boucher off waivers. Plus many teams claim worse players and give them a shot. You're crazy to think that with the way Goldobin performed last year he wouldn't be picked up? Jump off the Goldobin hate he has talent and if you want me to show you ill be glad. 

 

 

Had to show as much stuff so I don't get anymore ignorant replies such as yours.  

LOL....name me a key Canuck lost to waivers in past 10 years.......us "ignorant" people are having a hard time putting together a list.

 

[theo5789]

34 minutes ago, ItsMillerTime said:

Honestly can't believe people are saying he wouldn't be claimed. We claimed Reid Boucher off waivers. Plus many teams claim worse players and give them a shot. You're crazy to think that with the way Goldobin performed last year he wouldn't be picked up? Jump off the Goldobin hate he has talent and if you want me to show you ill be glad. 

 

 

Had to show as much stuff so I don't get anymore ignorant replies such as yours.  

Have you seen the rest of his game though? He's not a prolific enough offensive producer (19 points in 61 career games) to justify his lack of NHL play in pretty much the rest of his game.

 

As for Boucher, he was claimed mid-season when we were suffering many injuries and needed bodies. It's a whole different situation at the start of the year when every team has their own project players/prospects that they're trying to sort through. They need to be able to justify bringing in Goldobin onto their NHL team and bump another guy out of their own depth. As for claiming "worse" players, it's because teams tend to use waiver pickups to fill holes and teams are less inclined to be looking at borderline top 6 guys that cannot play in the bottom 6 as well.

 

I'm not saying there's no chance that he will get claimed, but the odds are not high and if he can't win out a spot out of camp, then I'll take that chance. He will likely be replaced soon by Dahlen or another offensive prospect we have coming up quickly.

 

Edit: I'd like to add that Boucher has been waived several times throughout the year since joining the Canucks and there have been no takers.

[canuktravella]

why the hell would we waive goldobin hes got a ton of offensive upside hes going nowhere 

[MikeyD]

I think a lot of you have way too high of expectations of players getting claimed. Gaunce has a 0% chance of getting claimed. 

[Bert Diesel]

3 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

LOL....name me a key Canuck lost to waivers in past 10 years.......us "ignorant" people are having a hard time putting together a list.

 

It's very infrequent that a player of consequence is picked up on waivers you are correct. However, in all the years of following the team (over 30), I can't remember an era in which there were so many young players with promise breaking in (over the next two seasons). Of course, not all of them will pan out but the anxiety of the fan base is somewhat warranted and was confirmed by the free agent additions. Say what you will about those pick ups but they have squeezed the bottom of the roster to the point that someone decent may be lost. Also, when guys like Beagle and Roussel are signed, you know they have a guaranteed roster spot because the optics of waiving them look terrible. 

 

Remember, this is the off-season and there's not much else to talk about so get off your high horse and stop crapping on people who are worried about losing a Goldobin or Leipsic. There has been very little to cheer about over the past few seasons and players with upside have been fun to watch and given some hope.  

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

Well done...and I agree completely...the only thing I would change is Hutton's chance of being grabbed ( if waived at the start of the season)...with his cap hit, I think it is about a 20% chance someone grabs him...maybe less.

One year left on his contract, is a RFA after, only 25 (some dmen develop later), can skate well, is 6'2 200+ lbs, and has shown previously some offensive potential. I can see a team with cap space giving him a shot potentially. I can see a possibility if we retain 50% cap that he would have some value being traded.

 

Patrik Nemeth was a guy last year that was waived and claimed and has earned another contract with a raise with his new team as well. Different cap situation, but certainly shows there could be more value there. So yes Hutton's cap could scare some teams off, but him being a young-ish dman might attract teams.

[Nucker 67]

Baertschi - Horvat - Boeser

Eriksson - Sutter - Pettersson

Leipsic - Beagle - Granlund

Roussel - Gagner - Virtanen

Goldobin

Schaller - IR

 

Edler - Stecher

Del Zotto - Tanev

Hutton - Gudbranson

Pouliot

 

Markstrom

Nilsson

 

Why does anyone need to be waived?

 

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

3 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Baertschi - Horvat - Boeser

Eriksson - Sutter - Pettersson

Leipsic - Beagle - Granlund

Roussel - Gagner - Virtanen

Goldobin

Schaller - IR

 

Edler - Stecher

Del Zotto - Tanev

Hutton - Gudbranson

Pouliot

 

Markstrom

Nilsson

 

Why does anyone need to be waived?

 

Good point ...as long as Schaller can stay on the IR until someone else gets injured...we should be good to go.

 

Ideally I would like to see EP with Gagme for the first 5-10 games and then he may be tradable for more than a bag of pucks...in 10 games EP should be able to get him a hat-trick....