[Signing] Hanifin 6Yr, 4.95 AAV

[rekker]

Cant say I have watched Hanafin much at all. Know him from hockeydb and his draft position. Seems like a fair deal and low risk. Hope the Flames suck though. Lol. 

[The_Rocket]

Don’t get me wrong, I think this is a good signing for a young D with top pairing potential. But am I the only person who thinks hannafin at 4.95 doesn’t replace Hamilton at 5.75?? I think the flames defense is worse this year than last year (unless harmonic and Brodie bounce back). 

[D-Money]

34 minutes ago, The_Rocket said:

Don’t get me wrong, I think this is a good signing for a young D with top pairing potential. But am I the only person who thinks hannafin at 4.95 doesn’t replace Hamilton at 5.75?? I think the flames defense is worse this year than last year (unless harmonic and Brodie bounce back). 

I live in Calgary, and have heard a lot about what is going on with the team.

 

First of all, most "in the know" seem to think that a large part of the problem with Hamonic and Brodie was that they played together. Their styles didn't mesh at all. Brodie plays a more freestyle, "read and react" game, whereas Hamonic plays a very structured game. On paper, it sounds like that would go well together, but the main problem would be Hamonic playing the puck to where he expected Brodie to be, but he was almost never there. As such, as a pairing they were a total tire fire. But Gio/Hamilton played so well together that they didn't want to split them up, and their 3rd pairing was a disaster too (esp Stone, which was a surprise as well), so they just continued to play them hoping they'd eventually adapt and gain chemistry. It didn't happen. So the thinking is, if Brodie can regain some of the magic he had with Giordano (they were almost as effective as Gio-Hamilton in the past), and Hanifin can work better with Hamonic, then their defense as a whole will be better.

 

Secondly, one of the major problems in Calgary this year was secondary scoring. Monahan was dealing with injuries for most of the year, so the 1st line needed more help than usual, and nobody outside of Tkachuk/Backlund seemed able to step up and contribute. So adding Lindholm, Ryan, and Neal is a huge step forward up front. The team will have a significantly better forward corps.

 

But the one question-mark left is the goaltending. Hopefully Rittich and/or Gillies can be effective with more starts, because they simply can't keep rolling out old man Smith every game like they were last year. Everybody said they were overworking him, and he could get injured, but they didn't listen, and it cost them their season.

 

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, D-Money said:

I live in Calgary, and have heard a lot about what is going on with the team.

 

First of all, most "in the know" seem to think that a large part of the problem with Hamonic and Brodie was that they played together. Their styles didn't mesh at all. Brodie plays a more freestyle, "read and react" game, whereas Hamonic plays a very structured game. On paper, it sounds like that would go well together, but the main problem would be Hamonic playing the puck to where he expected Brodie to be, but he was almost never there. As such, as a pairing they were a total tire fire. But Gio/Hamilton played so well together that they didn't want to split them up, and their 3rd pairing was a disaster too (esp Stone, which was a surprise as well), so they just continued to play them hoping they'd eventually adapt and gain chemistry. It didn't happen. So the thinking is, if Brodie can regain some of the magic he had with Giordano (they were almost as effective as Gio-Hamilton in the past), and Hanifin can work better with Hamonic, then their defense as a whole will be better.

 

Secondly, one of the major problems in Calgary this year was secondary scoring. Monahan was dealing with injuries for most of the year, so the 1st line needed more help than usual, and nobody outside of Tkachuk/Backlund seemed able to step up and contribute. So adding Lindholm, Ryan, and Neal is a huge step forward up front. The team will have a significantly better forward corps.

 

But the one question-mark left is the goaltending. Hopefully Rittich and/or Gillies can be effective with more starts, because they simply can't keep rolling out old man Smith every game like they were last year. Everybody said they were overworking him, and he could get injured, but they didn't listen, and it cost them their season.

 

I think there is also the possibility that Giordano stands to benefit from Hamilton's departure.  Some people may find that an odd claim, but there are a number of things that seem to qualify that.

 

Giordano's production actually dropped playing with Hamilton- and at the same time, his situational play became more weighted to ozone starts.

We can wonder if Giordano simply 'declined' the past few years, but I don't buy that hypothesis.  And of course we have to factor the overall talent on a team when looking at these things, but again, I don't believe those teams were any better.

 

In 2015-16, Giordano scored 56 pts playing with Brodie.

The previous season he scored an unreal 48 pts in 61 games - with 43.6% ozone starts.  Under-rated Norris season where he was arguably the best two way defenseman in the NHL - and probably the best 'possession' defenseman in the NHL.

With Hamilton he's dropped off to 39 and 38 pts while moving up to 53.2% ozone starts

 

A lot is made by what I think are analyticz pretenders of Hamilton's 'analytics' - as if he is one of if not the best 'possession' defenseman in the NHL. I've heard this repeatedly and most recently by Damien Cox who alleges that his numbers are "off the charts".   Is that really true though?  Imo there is nothing particularly impressive about Hamilton's 'underlying' numbers - his corsi is high but relatively proportionate to his zone starts (as are players like the Sedins who routinely have high corsis, but also very high ozone starts and taylored/opportune offensive situational use.

 

One thing I find telling about Hamilton - the one season he did not play with a Norris quality partner, his corsi dropped below 50% - and overall were average at best..  Is Hamilton really a guy that "drives play" as is assumed, or has that principally been the impact of Chara (one of the NHL's most dominant two way defensemen with perenially outstanding 'possession' numbers) and then Giordano, likewise a player that "drives play" regardless of who he plays with.

 

I won't be surprised if both Giordano and Brodie have better seasons - and while Hamilton still stands to play with a stud in Carolina (he'll probably wind up with Slavin or DeHaan) it'll be interesting to see him move beyond these stages where he's been alongside elite veteran two way Norris type defensemen.  I think Brodie's style - the skating, freewheeling style where he creates space - may actually serve Giordano's production better?   And addtionally, I'm not necessarily convinced that Hamilton is that good of a player without the puck.

I like this deal (the trade) for Calgary for a number of reasons (least of which is not the skill upgrade to Lindholm) - and where Hanifin is concerned, he'll likely also be upgrading partners, from Trevor Van Reimsdyk, to arguably a more solid Hamonic (despite an off season).

 

[Gaudette Celly]

5 hours ago, oldnews said:

I think there is also the possibility that Giordano stands to benefit from Hamilton's departure.  Some people may find that an odd claim, but there are a number of things that seem to qualify that...

 

I won't be surprised if both Giordano and Brodie have better seasons - and while Hamilton still stands to play with a stud in Carolina (he'll probably wind up with Slavin or DeHaan) it'll be interesting to see him move beyond these stages where he's been alongside elite veteran two way Norris type defensemen.  I think Brodie's style - the skating, freewheeling style where he creates space - may actually serve Giordano's production better?   And addtionally, I'm not necessarily convinced that Hamilton is that good of a player without the puck.

I like this deal (the trade) for Calgary for a number of reasons (least of which is not the skill upgrade to Lindholm) - and where Hanifin is concerned, he'll likely also be upgrading partners, from Trevor Van Reimsdyk, to arguably a more solid Hamonic (despite an off season).

 

This all goes back to a contention I've held for a while, in that Calgary is not really assembling a true "team".  Sure they're adding and picking up decent players but there seems to be a real disconnect somehow, and there's certainly something amiss when you look at the parts and wonder why they aren't better, as well as being on their third coach in three years.  It seems that with the Flames, the individual parts are greater than the sum that create the whole.  Perhaps the trading away of Dougie is a start to rectify that, even if it is the proverbial addition by subtraction.  If they still can't get the mix right, especially if they miss the playoffs again, I think Treliving may be looking for other employment come next summer.

[oldnews]

14 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

This all goes back to a contention I've held for a while, in that Calgary is not really assembling a true "team".  Sure they're adding and picking up decent players but there seems to be a real disconnect somehow, and there's certainly something amiss when you look at the parts and wonder why they aren't better, as well as being on their third coach in three years.  It seems that with the Flames, the individual parts are greater than the sum that create the whole.  Perhaps the trading away of Dougie is a start to rectify that, even if it is the proverbial addition by subtraction.  If they still can't get the mix right, especially if they miss the playoffs again, I think Treliving may be looking for other employment come next summer.

I don't know - I really liked a lot of their decisions and am at a loss in many ways to explain what has happened to that group.  In particular they've repeatedly added wise complementary pieces imo - guys like Frolik, Brouwer etc - who were very good two way guys, hard to play against - imo good balance to talent pieces like Monahan, Gaudreau.  They had solid pieces from within like Backlund, Ferland.....good shutdown depth pieces like Stajan....a blueline that's understandably been enviable.  It's hard for me to look at Treliving's decisions and take much issue with them.  I'm not a huge fan of the original Hamilton deal but I really like what they've done to recover younger assets after having given up the picks they did.   Hamonic was disappointing, but the player he's been over the years in NY = understandable that they'd pony up for him although it hasn't panned out thus far.

 

For me, if I were to try to pinpoint it, I might look off the ice and behind the bench.  I think that despite the initial surge they managed under Hartley, oerhaps the longer term effect of him was burnout and 'ptsd' to some extent.  And while I like Gulutzan, I'm not necessarily convinced I'd want him as a head coach.

 

I think the deal I find most questionable might be the James Neal deal for reasons I've gone into in that thread - but who knows - I find that it's often the case the just when you think a team has tilted the scales against themselves in the longer run, that's when they manage to prove their critics wrong....  The one thing I would say about that signing that is positive - is that they're already deep in - ie Giordano isn't getting younger, they've spent many picks on the 'win now' Hamilton, Hamonic deals - if that Neal deal hurts them in the long run clearly it's a calculation on the short term that is understandable under their circumstances. 

 

I'm not sure their bottom six is going to be as good as it has been in recent years, so that may be a concern, but on the other hand it's possible that their top 6 and top 4 are improved (I really like the Lindholm and Hanifin additions) - so it won't surprise me much if just as we're tending to write them off they re-emerge as the contender they probably should be (on paper anyway).  I guess the question once again might be their coaching and what their latest bench boss manages to make of that lineup.

[Gaudette Celly]

Perhaps they have hired the "wrong coaches", but the last two have brought different personalities and approaches, yet both failed expectations.  I agree that they have added decent pieces, but it still begs the question as to why they haven't created a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts, or even equal.  Was never sold on Dougie past his offensive numbers, and it just seems (from an admittedly outsider viewpoint) that there isn't a cohesive team there.  Maybe the mix isn't right, but something just seems off.  Bad goaltending certainly doesn't help.  I understand the rationale for the Neal signing, as they scored even less than the Canucks last year, but is he a fit beyond the goals?  That's where I appreciate what we are trying to build -- largely drafting and acquiring character players, ones who play the game hard with high energy and aggressiveness, and the "right way", as is said.  It also helps explain why despite the numbers and other positives, they apparently showed little interest in Keith Junior or Wilde, yet really liked Dubois and Thomas.

[JeremyCuddles]

People really seem to think Hanifin is better than Hamilton, especially on youtube. Those Calgary fans might be in for a huge surprise if/when Hanifin doesn't take a major step forward. He isn't better offensively and defensively at best it's close. But more likely Hanifin is worse than Hamilton defensively (and that's saying something). Canes fans don't seem all that upset about moving on from Hanifin. Those that are upset are upset they didn't get a goalie for him. They also think Lindholm has off ice issues, re-signing wasn't going well so they moved him too. All in all Canes fans seem to like the trade. So do Calgary fans but I really do think they see Hanifin's draft position and the hype and think he is something he is not. 

 

We'll see going forward. Hanifin has massive potential but up until this point has shown nothing that says he is making strides to achieving that potential. Change of scenery may help. Hopefully Giordano rubs off on him positively. Hanifin/Hamonic could be a really solid pair. Losing Ferland is kinda rough though. Not sure why they moved on from him. Did they not see how integral Wilson was to the Caps' playoff run?

[Pete M]

On 8/30/2018 at 9:18 PM, Odd. said:

Theyre relying on a 37 year old netminder to play 60ish games and an inexperienced backup. An injury to Smith and there goes the playoffs for them.

Yeah, an injury to MT...there goes their season...maybe Neal will balance their depth issue...but definitely backup goalie is an issue and an unknown.