Victim Mentality - Universities teaching to see bias here there is none

[Ray_Cathode]

1 hour ago, thejazz97 said:

I take no issue with affirmative hiring practices, as there is inequality in hiring/wages across America. As long as you meet the job criteria as well. No BS about avoiding essential criteria to hire someone for a quota.

 

As far as promoting diversity... I tend to think that'll happen on its own. I'd love to see a merit-based society, so if this is what gets us there, so be it, I guess.

Diversity of what?  Diversity of any and all differences, or only certain ones arbitrarily selected?  Why not select on eye colour? How about diversity of hair style?  How about how clean their fingernails are or whether or not they have fillings?  How about handedness?  Why is place of birth more important than grit?  Why does skin colour trump intelligence?  If one actually took diversity seriously, everyone would have to be judged on their individual merits and the ability to do the job.  But then that would require meeting objective, RELEVANT standards, not what race they are or whether they are indigenous, or whether they are all but one of the 65 million genders.

[Toews]

If we had a society without bias then we would not need affirmative action. Seeing as we don't we need to find a way to let minorities get their foot in the door. Rather simple concept but there are some who are "perpetually offended" by it's existence.

[luckylager]

14 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Diversity of what?  Diversity of any and all differences, or only certain ones arbitrarily selected?  Why not select on eye colour? How about diversity of hair style?  How about how clean their fingernails are or whether or not they have fillings?  How about handedness?  Why is place of birth more important than grit?  Why does skin colour trump intelligence?  If one actually took diversity seriously, everyone would have to be judged on their individual merits and the ability to do the job.  But then that would require meeting objective, RELEVANT standards, not what race they are or whether they are indigenous, or whether they are all but one of the 65 million genders.

Whoa dude

 

There are only like 5 genders. It's not 2118 yet.

[Ray_Cathode]

You mean that I’m finally ahead of the curve at something? Hot dang.  I thought Ontario had at least 80 some, and I know BC is far more left coast than Ontario.

[luckylager]

2 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

You mean that I’m finally ahead of the curve at something? Hot dang.  I thought Ontario had at least 80 some, and I know BC is far more left coast than Ontario.

We definitely are. But it seems we also count much better than you guys.

[nuckin_futz]

1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Yup.

 

It is "Sane".   "Logical" also works in a pinch.   

Good ones. "Drama Queen" works too.

[Ray_Cathode]

7 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

You mean that I’m finally ahead of the curve at something? Hot dang.  I thought Ontario had at least 80 some, and I know BC is far more left coast than Ontario.

Seems I have miscounted genders, according to this: https://torontosun.com/2016/10/24/stuck-in-gender-neutral/wcm/c0bbb69a-b59b-4f94-bcb7-22e9e1de1dcc

[smokes]

We live in a world that talks about bias this and shaming that. It's hard to open your mouth nowadays without offending someone.

[Toews]

20 minutes ago, smokes said:

We live in a world that talks about bias this and shaming that. It's hard to open your mouth nowadays without offending someone.

Really? Must not have noticed. Although I can imagine it is hard to open your mouth period when you live in "Wuhan, China" so I can appreciate your perspective.

[thejazz97]

2 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Diversity of what?  Diversity of any and all differences, or only certain ones arbitrarily selected?  Why not select on eye colour? How about diversity of hair style?  How about how clean their fingernails are or whether or not they have fillings?  How about handedness?  Why is place of birth more important than grit?  Why does skin colour trump intelligence?  If one actually took diversity seriously, everyone would have to be judged on their individual merits and the ability to do the job.  But then that would require meeting objective, RELEVANT standards, not what race they are or whether they are indigenous, or whether they are all but one of the 65 million genders.

We say diversity of race because historically minorities have been discriminated against?

[PhillipBlunt]

4 hours ago, Violator said:

You need to admit the best people available the rest can go to a community college.

 

Doesnt matter if they are an alien with one arm and a lisp

North American society is faulted primarily on the premise that only those who can afford the tuition are capable of going to university.

 

European countries have it right. Make all school free, but make it an absolute requirement that complete dedication and immersion into school (resulting in exemplary marks) is mandatory. Give everyone the opportunity, but ensure that the best of the bunch, regardless of financial capability, are able to succeed. 

 

 

[Violator]

21 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

North American society is faulted primarily on the premise that only those who can afford the tuition are capable of going to university.

 

European countries have it right. Make all school free, but make it an absolute requirement that complete dedication and immersion into school (resulting in exemplary marks) is mandatory. Give everyone the opportunity, but ensure that the best of the bunch, regardless of financial capability, are able to succeed. 

 

 

Look at germany they have something like 12000 people graduating medical school.

 

Almost everything eurpoean is better when it comes to education.

[riffraff]

4 hours ago, Toews said:

If we had a society without bias then we would not need affirmative action. Seeing as we don't we need to find a way to let minorities get their foot in the door. Rather simple concept but there are some who are "perpetually offended" by it's existence.

It’s futile.  People can literally be biased towards someone’s voice, how they smell, the way they dress.  I mean literally.  

 

 

 

 

[Lancaster]

I wonder is there some specific demographic where they face more discrimination and bias?

My ethnicity is Chinese.... but I don't think I've ever faced any difficulties or discrimination, and nobody I know with similar background as me ever claimed to have suffered either (in recent times).  

 

The most I've ever come across are usually Mainland Chinese who complains, going "Why you no speak Chinese?".... even after I specifically state that I speak Cantonese and not Mandarin....

 

In any case.... it always feel that certain minority groups "complains" more.  Maybe those groups are actually racially targeted more?

[Fateless]

I may disagree with you on pipeline issues @Rob_Zepp, but we're both on the same page with this issue. I personally dislike the concept of affirmative action or however you want to describe what UCLA is doing. 

 

Instead of leveling the playing field on a social and legal level and then allowing the market drive equality, governments are continually trying to force equality to bring statistics in line with their perceived level of acceptableness. The problem is that in doing so, they end up discriminating against other parties that may very well be more suited for a position (whether it be in school or in the workforce). For example, instead of normalizing females in the legal profession and allowing them to naturally begin to balance the scales between male/female, many firms and schools pride themselves on having their quota to hire women before men - some of which will take a less qualified female than the more qualified male, so long as the difference isn't substantial - all in the name of "equality". The problem is that this is just another form of discrimination and is more likely to alienate people who would otherwise support true equality. I know some will just say its fine to discriminate against the white male since they've dominated societies for so long, but that means they never really cared about equality in the first place - they just wanted their turn at being dominant. 

 

Even the concept of choosing a female over a male if they are substantially similar candidates for a position is morally reprehensible to me. Why is the deciding factor someone's gender? The entire reason we're in this position is because society allowed one's gender to be the determining factor in favor of males throughout history - why just allow the pendulum to swing the other way rather than stop it from swinging altogether? 

 

No man, woman, or apache attack helicopter should miss out on a job opportunity because they were born the wrong gender (or chose to identify as the wrong gender on that day). It should never come down to gender at all and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't actually believe in true equality.

 

 

[Ray_Cathode]

5 hours ago, Toews said:

If we had a society without bias then we would not need affirmative action. Seeing as we don't we need to find a way to let minorities get their foot in the door. Rather simple concept but there are some who are "perpetually offended" by it's existence.

Affirmative action requires that people NOT be treated equally before the law, a proposition to which I am entirely opposed.  It seems that you favor the idea that some people should have a kind of royalty that entitles them to be more equal - Hitler had that idea.  For every person to whom a government confers special benefit, it must first single out others for special punishment.  In the case of affirmative action, it requires that innocents be punished to confer special benefits on those who have not earned them of their own merit.  I am opposed to punishing the innocent - recognizing that we cannot make one evil right but creating another.

[Baer.]

Equal opportunity is fine, however equal equity is impossible.

[Baer.]

9 hours ago, thejazz97 said:

We say diversity of race because historically minorities have been discriminated against?

Technically speaking, whites are minorities on the world scale, so I always found calling any race that isn't white a minority a bit self centered.

[Solinar]

8 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

North American society is faulted primarily on the premise that only those who can afford the tuition are capable of going to university.

 

European countries have it right. Make all school free, but make it an absolute requirement that complete dedication and immersion into school (resulting in exemplary marks) is mandatory. Give everyone the opportunity, but ensure that the best of the bunch, regardless of financial capability, are able to succeed. 

 

 

  This is what the system needs!  The problem as I see it in the states is that the poorer quarters have the lesser teachers/school systems.  So basically, right off the hop, you're getting an inferior education compared to many of your peers in more affluent parts of town.  That is why you see a lot more 'qualified' people in the asian and white categories.  That would only go further into creating a smaller representation in a merit based school.  If every person in the states was treated and educated equally from day 1, you wouldn't need to jump into day 4360 to cover up what you haven't been doing since then.  They don't need to address it in the University setting, they need to address it in the entire education system, and then there wouldn't be a need to go into the work place.  

[Solinar]

  As for minorities standing up, and demanding equality, until you see each race equally represented across the spectrum, you're going to have this.  Because right off the hop, the system to the south of us isn't fair.  There isn't equal footing to even start, and for a lot, they've got to fight hard to even get the little they have.  Rampant racism and bias in hiring, in school, in life, has set up a system toxic enough that it would take decades  to fix.  Here's hoping that somewhere along the lines people realise that humans are the same regardless of colour, hair colour, eye colour, or anything else a person could possibly use to arbitrarily explain why some accident of birth has relegated them to the top of the pile.