ABNuck Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I was thinking about 3 of the upcoming UFA's next off season...and how they would probably each love to get the other guy off the boards so that the prices will go up. How about the following 3 way deal: CBJ gets Pacioretty DAL gets Panarin MTL gets Seguin. Each of these teams could conceivably lose their own UFA...and I suspect that since there has been no deals made yet (especially in MTL) that the clubs might all be looking at getting something in return vs. the Tavares situation (so that's one obvious big bonus to doing this...and it pretty much negates any negative equity as well since the club might actually get nothing if they walk...in other words although Pacioretty is worth less than Panarin to CBJ, at least he's worth a heck of a lot more than nothing). Additional bonus to this would be the filling in of the slots needed (MTL gets #1 center, CBJ gets a goal producing winger...DAL doesn't necessarily fill a need but if you have a chance to grab Panarin vs. letting Seguin walk for nothing it's certainly better than a bag of pucks...MUCH better). Let me know what you think...and again, this thought process has little to do with the perceived value of each vs. the others as I am assuming there may be a chance that each club might get "Tavared" (I'm patenting that new phrase right here right now) so please don't use their value as a counter argument but please let me know what might be some additions that might actually make this one work out for all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, ABNuck said: I was thinking about 3 of the upcoming UFA's next off season...and how they would probably each love to get the other guy off the boards so that the prices will go up. How about the following 3 way deal: CBJ gets Pacioretty DAL gets Panarin MTL gets Seguin. Each of these teams could conceivably lose their own UFA...and I suspect that since there has been no deals made yet (especially in MTL) that the clubs might all be looking at getting something in return vs. the Tavares situation (so that's one obvious big bonus to doing this...and it pretty much negates any negative equity as well since the club might actually get nothing if they walk...in other words although Pacioretty is worth less than Panarin to CBJ, at least he's worth a heck of a lot more than nothing). Additional bonus to this would be the filling in of the slots needed (MTL gets #1 center, CBJ gets a goal producing winger...DAL doesn't necessarily fill a need but if you have a chance to grab Panarin vs. letting Seguin walk for nothing it's certainly better than a bag of pucks...MUCH better). Let me know what you think...and again, this thought process has little to do with the perceived value of each vs. the others as I am assuming there may be a chance that each club might get "Tavared" (I'm patenting that new phrase right here right now) so please don't use their value as a counter argument but please let me know what might be some additions that might actually make this one work out for all... I wouldn't admit to coining that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 But why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 28 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said: But why? TL;DR Don't lose your pending UFA for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Why wouldn't Columbus just take Sequin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 14 hours ago, lmm said: Why wouldn't Columbus just take Sequin? You're right...value-wise it makes more sense to just leave the Habs out of it...just thinking of needs as well, again, not the fact that Pacioretty is definitely valued less than Seguin head-to-head, more like Pacioretty would be a more valuable asset to CBJ due to being a winger. Down the middle they do have Wennberg, Jenner and Dubois and although Seguin would be an upgrade on any of them it just seems to make more sense to go for a winger. OK then try this on for size Trade #1: Seguin to CBJ / Panarin to DAL Trade #2: Dubois to MTL / Pacioretty to CBJ CBJ can then run a top line of Patches / Seguin / Atkinson and secondary scoring from Foligno / Wennberg / Duclair and third line of Bjorkstrand / Nash / Jenner That's actually not too bad for them. DAL has Benn / Spezza / Panarin then Radulov / Janmark / Nichushkin Next summer they make an offer to Duchene (if he's still available) once Spezza's $$$ are off the books. MTL...who gives a crap, they are in worse shape than us. Man...I got this all figured out...now if we can just figure out the Nucks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 hours ago, ABNuck said: You're right...value-wise it makes more sense to just leave the Habs out of it...just thinking of needs as well, again, not the fact that Pacioretty is definitely valued less than Seguin head-to-head, more like Pacioretty would be a more valuable asset to CBJ due to being a winger. Down the middle they do have Wennberg, Jenner and Dubois and although Seguin would be an upgrade on any of them it just seems to make more sense to go for a winger. OK then try this on for size Trade #1: Seguin to CBJ / Panarin to DAL Trade #2: Dubois to MTL / Pacioretty to CBJ CBJ can then run a top line of Patches / Seguin / Atkinson and secondary scoring from Foligno / Wennberg / Duclair and third line of Bjorkstrand / Nash / Jenner That's actually not too bad for them. DAL has Benn / Spezza / Panarin then Radulov / Janmark / Nichushkin Next summer they make an offer to Duchene (if he's still available) once Spezza's $$$ are off the books. MTL...who gives a crap, they are in worse shape than us. Man...I got this all figured out...now if we can just figure out the Nucks... Trade #2 .1 Pacioretty + 3rd in 2020 for Boesser would you do it? If not , why would CBJ trade down 10 years, ECL, 20 goal scorer at 19yo for a guy that scored 17 goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 hours ago, ABNuck said: You're right...value-wise it makes more sense to just leave the Habs out of it...just thinking of needs as well, again, not the fact that Pacioretty is definitely valued less than Seguin head-to-head, more like Pacioretty would be a more valuable asset to CBJ due to being a winger. Down the middle they do have Wennberg, Jenner and Dubois and although Seguin would be an upgrade on any of them it just seems to make more sense to go for a winger. OK then try this on for size Trade #1: Seguin to CBJ / Panarin to DAL Trade #2: Dubois to MTL / Pacioretty to CBJ CBJ can then run a top line of Patches / Seguin / Atkinson and secondary scoring from Foligno / Wennberg / Duclair and third line of Bjorkstrand / Nash / Jenner That's actually not too bad for them. DAL has Benn / Spezza / Panarin then Radulov / Janmark / Nichushkin Next summer they make an offer to Duchene (if he's still available) once Spezza's $$$ are off the books. MTL...who gives a crap, they are in worse shape than us. Man...I got this all figured out...now if we can just figure out the Nucks... No way CLB gives up Dubois, he's their future number one, yes this post had merit given Panarin has basically told the club to shop him if they want as he's going to market, and Seguin has already lamented that Dallas hasn't even approached him yet with a desire to sign him when they already have a green light to do that (and he scored more points than Tavares over the last five years so he should be asking and will be asking for a similar deal).... Max P is a tier down, who knows what's going on in MTL but so far not much of anything. My bet is Panarin is traded at or near the TDL but you never really know. Seguin would fetch a heavy price as a UFA, who knows maybe we show enough to make him come here (Benning does like his UFAs and it would solve our first line center problem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 58 minutes ago, lmm said: Trade #2 .1 Pacioretty + 3rd in 2020 for Boesser would you do it? If not , why would CBJ trade down 10 years, ECL, 20 goal scorer at 19yo for a guy that scored 17 goals? Yup...makes sense to me now too...geez I have no idea where Patches is finally gonna paid the $$ he is due for signing a cheap contract before. Really it should come from the Molson's (sign him to an extension for 7mil a season and retain 2.5mil a year of that and trade him...it's fair for Pacioretty to get the $$$ he gave back to MTL before and fair to any team that takes him on to only have to pay 4.5mil a year for him...not a snowball's chance in the hothouse that they would do the right thing so I guess everybody is gonna get screwed in this deal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 55 minutes ago, IBatch said: No way CLB gives up Dubois, he's their future number one, yes this post had merit given Panarin has basically told the club to shop him if they want as he's going to market, and Seguin has already lamented that Dallas hasn't even approached him yet with a desire to sign him when they already have a green light to do that (and he scored more points than Tavares over the last five years so he should be asking and will be asking for a similar deal).... Max P is a tier down, who knows what's going on in MTL but so far not much of anything. My bet is Panarin is traded at or near the TDL but you never really know. Seguin would fetch a heavy price as a UFA, who knows maybe we show enough to make him come here (Benning does like his UFAs and it would solve our first line center problem). Although I would love Seguin (he's more mature now than when he made the "Sedin" quips on the radio) I still think our better option might be Duchene...we would have to give up less to get him, cost less to keep him and he would slide easier into a 3rd line role down the road when we start running with a Pettersson / Horvat one-two duo a few years from now (I prefer the lower cap hit of Duch as we will have some ELC's to start paying in a couple years...I don't want a yoke of a contract that might make it difficult to keep our young core later). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 1 hour ago, lmm said: Trade #2 .1 Pacioretty + 3rd in 2020 for Boesser would you do it? If not , why would CBJ trade down 10 years, ECL, 20 goal scorer at 19yo for a guy that scored 17 goals? Calling Pacioretty a 17 goal scorer and ignoring his several consecutive 30+ goal seasons isn’t really portraying an accurate accounting of his value. Yes. He had a bad year on a tire fire of a team. That doesn’t mean he won’t bounce back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 1 hour ago, ABNuck said: Although I would love Seguin (he's more mature now than when he made the "Sedin" quips on the radio) I still think our better option might be Duchene...we would have to give up less to get him, cost less to keep him and he would slide easier into a 3rd line role down the road when we start running with a Pettersson / Horvat one-two duo a few years from now (I prefer the lower cap hit of Duch as we will have some ELC's to start paying in a couple years...I don't want a yoke of a contract that might make it difficult to keep our young core later). Definitely would rather we stay away from any of these 10$ dollar men and instead have money for more very good, rather than elite, players. Not sure Duchene is a good target but I'm sure he doesn't like what he got himself into either, not exactly the almost cup final team from the year before as advertised. OTT paid a lot for Duchene... The numbers back up that 30-30 players are much cheaper than 35-50 types, any team that manages to have more of the former can manage their caps must easier. Id rather have a Horvat-Boeser than McDavid and a plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 2 hours ago, IBatch said: Definitely would rather we stay away from any of these 10$ dollar men and instead have money for more very good, rather than elite, players. Not sure Duchene is a good target but I'm sure he doesn't like what he got himself into either, not exactly the almost cup final team from the year before as advertised. OTT paid a lot for Duchene... The numbers back up that 30-30 players are much cheaper than 35-50 types, any team that manages to have more of the former can manage their caps must easier. Id rather have a Horvat-Boeser than McDavid and a plug. Definitely agree...Chicago is horse whipped with TWO 10mil contracts...and no playoffs last year (and no time in the future). Dallas paying Benn 9.5...no playoffs...Coilers with McDavid and Drai...20million dollars and no playoffs last year...and they suck overall. Montreal gave Price millions and they won't see the playoffs this decade...LA Queens snuck in as W/C last year but with a VERY top heavy roster... But then there's PIT, WSH and a few like that so....hmmmm….. I still prefer the lighter top end model, as long as the players will buy into it then you can keep a good core of stars together each only taking 6-7.5mil each which leaves plenty for some better depth players and a few mins/ELC's...much better balance. I'd say 1 at each position would only burn up about a third of your space so for our future we'll be looking at: C - Pettersson W - Boeser D - Quinn G - Demko at an average of 7.0mil each that's 28mil...leaves about 50 mil (est. cap in 2 years) for the other 19 guys...you can put together a pretty darn good depth roster with 50million bucks! Say 3 more guys (2 F and 1 D) at 5mil / 3 more guys (1 F and 2 D) at 4mil / 3 more at 3 mil = 36mil...leaves 14mil for the remaining 10 positions...totally doable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 NO MORE UFA'S. We need to trade away players before they become ufa's but we don't need to acquire more. BUILD FROM WITHIN. Make room for our youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 8 hours ago, ABNuck said: Definitely agree...Chicago is horse whipped with TWO 10mil contracts...and no playoffs last year (and no time in the future). Dallas paying Benn 9.5...no playoffs...Coilers with McDavid and Drai...20million dollars and no playoffs last year...and they suck overall. Montreal gave Price millions and they won't see the playoffs this decade...LA Queens snuck in as W/C last year but with a VERY top heavy roster... But then there's PIT, WSH and a few like that so....hmmmm….. I still prefer the lighter top end model, as long as the players will buy into it then you can keep a good core of stars together each only taking 6-7.5mil each which leaves plenty for some better depth players and a few mins/ELC's...much better balance. I'd say 1 at each position would only burn up about a third of your space so for our future we'll be looking at: C - Pettersson W - Boeser D - Quinn G - Demko at an average of 7.0mil each that's 28mil...leaves about 50 mil (est. cap in 2 years) for the other 19 guys...you can put together a pretty darn good depth roster with 50million bucks! Say 3 more guys (2 F and 1 D) at 5mil / 3 more guys (1 F and 2 D) at 4mil / 3 more at 3 mil = 36mil...leaves 14mil for the remaining 10 positions...totally doable! You bet! WSH is top heavy and so will be TB (but they have Stamkos on a extemely low deal ...because they can plus others as they all take home a lot more) and WNP and TO it's the way of the cap world. At some point Vancouver will likely have cap issues. It used to be teams got deals on their budding stars second contracts which was when they can make hay, (Toews, Kane, Tavares, Karlsson, Stamkos, Doughty, Kopitar all that generation with the exception of Crosby, Malkin and Ovi at the time were all team friendly deals) but now with McDavid, Drasaital, and Mathews and Laine about to get huge bank those days are over. Second contracts will now be more like the third one for stars, which is going to make a teams window a lot harder to negotiate, including ours if Pettersson is a PPGer and Boeser scores 40-50 goals this year and signs after he does that. Sucks but it's the new way business is done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.