oldnews Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 12 hours ago, Kanuck_Krazy said: No I'm not. Still bad contracts. Now whether you want to say they're bad contracts but acceptable because that's what it takes to get these players when your as bad as we then okay. But don't kid yourself these were bad contracts. If you disagree it's fine but your wrong. It was widely agreed upon in the hockey world that these were two of the worst contracts signed in free agency. We heard the same chorus when Benning 'overpaid' Dorsett - who punked the lot. 'Don't kid yourself' - neither you nor the perceived "hockey world" will decide who is "wrong" or whether these guys are worth their contracts - that will be determined by their performance. And since performance is what determined their value, if Beagle continues to produce the kind of objective outcomes he did in Washington, then he's easily worth the terms. The so-called 'hockey world' doesn't appear able to realistically evaluate players like this imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 14 hours ago, Mo Grit said: Boeser-Horvat-Virtanen - Canucks only stars and untouchable. Sutter-Gagner-Erikson - untradable contracts and have to play. Rousssel-Schaller-Beagle - newly signed and also must play. Virtanen is not a star (yet) and is certainly not untouchable should he not show up ready to take a step (unlikely IMO). Sutter is QUITE tradeable (and for a very nice return should we choose to do so at any point) and Gagner is neither untradeable/movable nor remotely guaranteed anything. The last group also largely upgrades on the majority of bottom 6 players we had, a replacement for Dorsett etc. Let's not try to craft a narrative that the only reason they're likely playing is because they were just signed. And of those three, I'd say Schaller is far from guaranteed anything. He's likely on the roster but there's no reason Gaunce, Archibald etc can't come out and take his penciled in spot if they earn it. Guys like Boucher, Kero etc were signed for Utica FYI. It would take a small miracle and massive turn around in their developments for them to actually stick in the NHL this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuckFather Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 12 hours ago, Kanuck_Krazy said: No I'm not. Still bad contracts. Now whether you want to say they're bad contracts but acceptable because that's what it takes to get these players when your as bad as we then okay. But don't kid yourself these were bad contracts. If you disagree it's fine but your wrong. It was widely agreed upon in the hockey world that these were two of the worst contracts signed in free agency. You answered your own question. It's hard and to sign free agents to a team that's presumably destined for another top 5 pick without showing them the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 17 hours ago, Kanuck_Krazy said: No I'm not. Still bad contracts. Now whether you want to say they're bad contracts but acceptable because that's what it takes to get these players when your as bad as we then okay. But don't kid yourself these were bad contracts. If you disagree it's fine but your wrong. It was widely agreed upon in the hockey world that these were two of the worst contracts signed in free agency. You do realize the "hockey world" you refer to is mostly eastern based media with their own slant on things. As I have stated in a different thread: 1) you and I are not paying them. 2) these types of players were sorely lacking in the Canucks mix of last year and as a result the team had no push back when the going got rough. 3) All of these contracts are moveable before the end of their terms are up. 4) We did not have any prospects in the mix that were ready to provide what they bring to the table. 5) This allows JB to fully develop the likes of Gadjovich and MacEwen in the minors in hopes of them being ready in a year or two to push for a spot on the team at which time the players brought in to fill the void can be moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 5 hours ago, oldnews said: The so-called 'hockey world' doesn't appear able to realistically evaluate players like this imo. ...or perhaps it has to do with the team signing them. When's the last time we heard accolades for any UFA signing by the Canucks? If the Leafs had signed Beagle, no doubt we'd be hearing about the arrival of a cup-winner and the "deepest center corps in the entire league." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: ...or perhaps it has to do with the team signing them. When's the last time we heard accolades for any UFA signing by the Canucks? If the Leafs had signed Beagle, no doubt we'd be hearing about the arrival of a cup-winner and the "deepest center corps in the entire league." I'll take the flips of UFAs Holm and Vanek for Leipsic and Motte every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 OK With our new 3 Free Agents .... what did we get exactly with the 3 ? I guess we will know more after 20 games..... A B C D E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Quote "Players that are great examples and play the game extremely hard, they help those young players to become really good pros – pros you can win with and not pros that are good NHL players but don’t win. We don’t want to be a team that just wants to get into the playoffs. We’re in this to win championships. How fast those players mature into that type of (winning) player will determine that. It’s so hard to win in the NHL. You have to have tough lessons to win. And you need support to do that. These guys (Beagle, Roussel and Tim Schaller) will help support those players on the ice and off the ice. They’ll help them during those tough lessons." - Travis Greenhttps://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-coach-green-impressive-prospects-linden-ownership/ Coach has spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Hutton Wink said: ...or perhaps it has to do with the team signing them. When's the last time we heard accolades for any UFA signing by the Canucks? If the Leafs had signed Beagle, no doubt we'd be hearing about the arrival of a cup-winner and the "deepest center corps in the entire league." Agreed, it was pretty clear those writers condemning the signings had no real knowledge of the team or the issues that needed to be resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenhodgejr Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 It pisses me off when I hear people talk about the contracts of these roll players. We need NHL players in our bottom 6 who can compete and battle on a nightly basis until our prospects are ready to take those spots. Gadjovich, Palmu, Jassek, Lind, and MacEwen are any where from 2-4 years before they make the NHL. These are the guys that will probably move into bottom 6 rolls. By the time they are ready for the NHL guys like Pettersson, Dahlen, and Gaudette will be seasoned and able to lead the team. We are paying these guys to fight for and protect our future star rookies while they get used to the NHL. Also having seasoned NHL guys is better for them to be around than guys like Gaunce, Archibald, Bouchier Beagle just won a cup and he is practically a motivational speaker. Roussel will hold people accountable even if he looses 9/10 fights. Schaller is for depth. I think green will appreciate having these options and the rookies will appreciate having some veterans they can lean on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Grit Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 The 3 signings are the main cog of a new culture shift which I'm sure GMJim decided upon right after the humiliation of suffering through our team turtle against Calgary in our last playoff appearance. Surely the very low point in Canuck history, topping a long list of past strong contenders. And, obviously Sedins could never be replaced like for like. The most intriguing value of our new 3 will be their intangibles, as many good folk here have already observed. As solid pros, they should provide accountability both on and off the ice, while helping MG drive his 200foot message home. Their responsible game might well relieve the constant pressure on our stressed out, unsettled D. The 3's playing style could add some missing inspiration for those on our roster still searching for their NHL 'game'. Might even shame Erikksson and Gagner into rediscovering theirs. None of the 3 appear to have signed simply for a payday, and I'm guessing Jim had these guys well vetted and lined up for this exact role, a while back. But even management and coaches can only speculate at this point, so let's enjoy our free fan pass to do the same. I sense the main beneficiary of our new signings to be Sutter, and wouldn't be at all surprised if he was handed the C. Another might be Leipsic. He looked at times last year to have a good mixture of skill, swagger and jam which might well flourish now under protection from his new wingmen. In addition I believe Motte has the wheels and psyche to thrive in the new culture and I've been surprised to see that view hasn't been shared in any other posts. I'm not seeing streaky players (Goldy for one) cutting it in our new team persona, and should be traded for picks, keeping their spots held open for blooding some of our in-form young guns. But, shipping any promising rookies down to Kalamazoo just to appease the log-jam of failures not making our Canucks roster would be a major error. Benning needs them steeling in the AHL, and right now. The media analysts' amateur-hour opinion of our 3 signings is downright offensive. Canucks enter the new season as one of the worst teams in the entire NHL, no getting away with it. I fail to see how a long-term expensive Tavares-like signing would have improved our lot in any way other than than a league place or two. As a long-suffering fan, I no longer have the stomach for watching the latest over the hill signing, here to go through the motions of pasturing out and padding his pension. Neither do I want to swallow any further trades for never-gonna-be's, newly released by frustrated rivals. Or read of their latest excuse like Goldyslag's recent "this year I'm really gonna try". The 3 signings felt they were worth more $ and we've agreed with them. If, in the event they arrive as advertised, and can elevate fellow teammate's performances then that in itself will be deem the contracts worth way more than any tv pundit wants to comprehend. And, if their 3 signings can push back the seemingly endless liberties taken nightly with our beloved innocent Canucks, then they'll all look like steals to us fans. Jim's nailed it here and not a moment too soon. Seattle's coming and will be cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fecklund Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Re: "grit" Gadj is a LW, Left shot Mac is a RW, Right shot That's two thirds of one helluva future 4th line if you ask me. Both guys have wheels, skill, and can throw 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, fecklund said: That's two thirds of one helluva future 4th line if you ask me. Both guys have wheels, skill, and can throw 'em. They are probably two years out yet from coming in and replacing Beagle, Roussel or Schaller but the future is looking much better than it did a couple of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 12 hours ago, Mo Grit said: The 3 signings are the main cog of a new culture shift which I'm sure GMJim decided upon right after the humiliation of suffering through our team turtle against Calgary in our last playoff appearance. Surely the very low point in Canuck history, topping a long list of past strong contenders. And, obviously Sedins could never be replaced like for like. The most intriguing value of our new 3 will be their intangibles, as many good folk here have already observed. As solid pros, they should provide accountability both on and off the ice, while helping MG drive his 200foot message home. Their responsible game might well relieve the constant pressure on our stressed out, unsettled D. The 3's playing style could add some missing inspiration for those on our roster still searching for their NHL 'game'. Might even shame Erikksson and Gagner into rediscovering theirs. None of the 3 appear to have signed simply for a payday, and I'm guessing Jim had these guys well vetted and lined up for this exact role, a while back. But even management and coaches can only speculate at this point, so let's enjoy our free fan pass to do the same. I sense the main beneficiary of our new signings to be Sutter, and wouldn't be at all surprised if he was handed the C. Another might be Leipsic. He looked at times last year to have a good mixture of skill, swagger and jam which might well flourish now under protection from his new wingmen. In addition I believe Motte has the wheels and psyche to thrive in the new culture and I've been surprised to see that view hasn't been shared in any other posts. I'm not seeing streaky players (Goldy for one) cutting it in our new team persona, and should be traded for picks, keeping their spots held open for blooding some of our in-form young guns. But, shipping any promising rookies down to Kalamazoo just to appease the log-jam of failures not making our Canucks roster would be a major error. Benning needs them steeling in the AHL, and right now. The media analysts' amateur-hour opinion of our 3 signings is downright offensive. Canucks enter the new season as one of the worst teams in the entire NHL, no getting away with it. I fail to see how a long-term expensive Tavares-like signing would have improved our lot in any way other than than a league place or two. As a long-suffering fan, I no longer have the stomach for watching the latest over the hill signing, here to go through the motions of pasturing out and padding his pension. Neither do I want to swallow any further trades for never-gonna-be's, newly released by frustrated rivals. Or read of their latest excuse like Goldyslag's recent "this year I'm really gonna try". The 3 signings felt they were worth more $ and we've agreed with them. If, in the event they arrive as advertised, and can elevate fellow teammate's performances then that in itself will be deem the contracts worth way more than any tv pundit wants to comprehend. And, if their 3 signings can push back the seemingly endless liberties taken nightly with our beloved innocent Canucks, then they'll all look like steals to us fans. Jim's nailed it here and not a moment too soon. Seattle's coming and will be cheaper. After following this team for the better part of the last 30 years, I have seen a number of "culture shifts" come and go. I have seen how much the leadership dictates how the team plays day in and day out. I don't believe younger fans will know how important this aspect of a team is. No doubt we have had "character" players on the team but we have gone through decades of the "gentlemanly" type leadership. Has this benefited us in any way or brought us any closer to a cup? I have been waiting since the end of the 94' season to get another chance at the cup. Lets not go back to 2011 please. This season is the first season where we have a chance to truly change the culture of this team. What better way to start then to bring one of the leaders who just won a cup onto the team. Has this team had any pushback other then Dorsett lately? Lets bring in a guy who will do that. I am not pushing for these guys to "protect" our young guys but more like pushing them to "teach" them how to stick up for themselves and have the wolfpack mentality instead of looking to see where the ref's are or where the teams "goon" is at. They don't have to be tough and fight all the time but they don't have to "turtle" all the time either. When this team was full of talent, the tendency was to "not try as hard" on lesser opponents. This drove me crazy for years. We would actually lose because the team took nights off on a regular basis. This should not be acceptable and the leadership should dictate whether this happens or not. If I am right, then we should see great improvements in these aspects of our game and it should provide very entertaining hockey. The big question is how much the young guys will learn from these guys or do they just do their own thing. I am very confident Bo and Boes have a good start on building character I am hoping the other young prospects follow suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 On 2018-09-08 at 7:47 PM, mikeyman109 said: The posters who understand that the kids will need not only protection but some veteran presence around them to become better NHL players get the need to sign these types of players. We cant play Petterson Dahlen and even Boeser and Horvat without someone to respond should things go ape. Rousell Beagle and Schaller play the game with a little sandpaper and thats been missing in my opinion since 2012 when Lapierre and Torres left. Regardless of 9 spots up front what is holding back spots from the kids has nothing to with these three signings. Its more the Erikssons, Gagners etc and as such its up to the kids to displace them and give Benning every reason to either trade them or waive them to make room for a player that has earned it. This is the crux of the whole issue. The young players must give Benning the reason to move a veteran to make room for them. Its their responsibility, not managements or the coaching staff. The young player must show that they are bette4r than the current option. No player will be gifted a spot nor should they be. To make the team you will have to play at your best all the time or now there is someone else who may take your job. What player thought they were a lock?? The whole idea of having this type of competition for spots on the roster is no one can feel comfortable. This will create better players and thus a better team. this is exactly what we want. Great to see4 the uoung players showing up. Now they have to outplay the veterans. The push back and need to protect teammates is what they bring IMO. Beyond that, we need to teach our younger guys how to initiate too. The players that need to have some support in this manor are Jake and Bo. Both are big, strong players, but need to develop an edge. Jake and Bo playing with chips on their shoulders is a shift that could have long lasting positive results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 10 hours ago, Phat Fingers said: The push back and need to protect teammates is what they bring IMO. Beyond that, we need to teach our younger guys how to initiate too. The players that need to have some support in this manor are Jake and Bo. Both are big, strong players, but need to develop an edge. Jake and Bo playing with chips on their shoulders is a shift that could have long lasting positive results. It will be easier for the more skilled players to play with an edge if they have someone on the team who can back it up. It creates a bit more space for everyone when you have a Rousell out there taking the attention away from the younger players. I dont think we want Horvat taking on all comers at this time as he is way too valuable out on the ice and not in the penalty box. Virtanen is a big boy with skill and can take care of himself. Maturity will go a long way to developing an "Edge" as you call it. The prospect that plays with the edge is Gaudette. Skill with a bit of snarl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said: The prospect that plays with the edge is Gaudette. Skill with a bit of snarl. I am really hoping that he makes the team... This kids got game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I finally figured out why they got these three characters, it's so we have them to expose during the expansion draft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said: I am really hoping that he makes the team... This kids got game! If he plays the same way he did in the Young Stars tournament he will make the team. I noticed a couple things about him 1 His stride is a lot better. His skating is smoother and he is faster because of it. 2 his drive to be around the net and go to the dirty areas. 3. His hands are gold. Deflection goals are something we have not seen enough of. This would be lethal on the power play. Im not saying he is Toni Tanti but he is good with the deflections., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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