[Discussion] Once Again Hopes That Are Expressed With Trade Ideas.

[TheGuardian_]

Within this forum there is every possibility, thought, hope, complaint and wish. Some even seem to be well thought out, reasoned and could make sense, even doable.

 

Each year and sometimes each month new needs arise, or, at least perceived to be new needs but in reality are just an old problem revisited.

 

Whether anyone at all agrees of when a rebuild started everyone can agree that there is one now.

 

The team is littered with AHLer's on the cusp of being regular NHLer's, they supposedly fight to make this 30th placed team, some of the older vets are paid way over their value and given  long term clause contracts, long in the sense of the player's age and bloated because these players are very useful in a playoff series but aren't huge contributors in getting to the playoffs, they are more.....complimentary players.

 

This season like last season there is a lot of hype over Horvat and Boeser, well really for 3 seasons now, this year might/probably see Elias Pettersson.

That makes only 4 NHL players in 5 years of drafting, so if this continues as it is going, well do the math, the team still needs at least 3 NHL high end quality forwards and if Groot comes back and if Hughes can play in the NHL, remember Subban could skate around players, had speed but size handicapped him and Hughes is smaller, then the team would still need 3 more top 5 dmen. Drafting only at this rate would see Horvat retire before a team is assembled.

 

So

 

Trades are needed and necessary. Teams do not want to trade the types of players the Canucks need but some will have to in order to keep their up and coming stars they have already invested so heavily in as to cause cap problems. Top players have been traded before they became stars or later, Sundin, Sequin, Carter, B.Hull, Kessel, Thorton, there aren't many but there are some.

 

So teams going into cap hell in the next 2 years, Edmonton, Toronto, SanJose, …….?

 

I am still liking the idea, hope, wish of landing Puljujarvi, I really think is doable and a win, win for both teams.   

 

 

 

 

[coastal.view]

that's it?

 

it's doable?

 

but how? um.. details please

because i completely doubt it is doable

[Solinar]

I'd love to have Pullujarvi on the team as well, and I think we could have pulled the trigger on a deal that would have made it work....before the pre-season hit and he went beast mode on us.  Now he is the answer to 2nd line scoring rw on Draisatl's line, and Rattie graduated to trigger man for 2 cerebral wingers on the top line.  I'd think you'd have to offer the moon if he continues on as he is.  Or be there when their D-line gets injured beyond repair.

[coastal.view]

22 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Within this forum there is every possibility, thought, hope, complaint and wish. Some even seem to be well thought out, reasoned and could make sense, even doable.

 

Each year and sometimes each month new needs arise, or, at least perceived to be new needs but in reality are just an old problem revisited.

 

Whether anyone at all agrees of when a rebuild started everyone can agree that there is one now.

 

The team is littered with AHLer's on the cusp of being regular NHLer's, they supposedly fight to make this 30th placed team, some of the older vets are paid way over their value and given  long term clause contracts, long in the sense of the player's age and bloated because these players are very useful in a playoff series but aren't huge contributors in getting to the playoffs, they are more.....complimentary players.

 

This season like last season there is a lot of hype over Horvat and Boeser, well really for 3 seasons now, this year might/probably see Elias Pettersson.

That makes only 4 NHL players in 5 years of drafting, so if this continues as it is going, well do the math, the team still needs at least 3 NHL high end quality forwards and if Groot comes back and if Hughes can play in the NHL, remember Subban could skate around players, had speed but size handicapped him and Hughes is smaller, then the team would still need 3 more top 5 dmen. Drafting only at this rate would see Horvat retire before a team is assembled.

 

So

 

Trades are needed and necessary. Teams do not want to trade the types of players the Canucks need but some will have to in order to keep their up and coming stars they have already invested so heavily in as to cause cap problems. Top players have been traded before they became stars or later, Sundin, Sequin, Carter, B.Hull, Kessel, Thorton, there aren't many but there are some.

 

So teams going into cap hell in the next 2 years, Edmonton, Toronto, SanJose, …….?

 

I am still liking the idea, hope, wish of landing Puljujarvi, I really think is doable and a win, win for both teams.

that's it?

 

it's doable?

 

but how? um.. details please

because i completely doubt it is doable

[Salacious Crumb]

31 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Within this forum there is every possibility, thought, hope, complaint and wish. Some even seem to be well thought out, reasoned and could make sense, even doable.

 

Each year and sometimes each month new needs arise, or, at least perceived to be new needs but in reality are just an old problem revisited.

 

Whether anyone at all agrees of when a rebuild started everyone can agree that there is one now.

 

The team is littered with AHLer's on the cusp of being regular NHLer's, they supposedly fight to make this 30th placed team, some of the older vets are paid way over their value and given  long term clause contracts, long in the sense of the player's age and bloated because these players are very useful in a playoff series but aren't huge contributors in getting to the playoffs, they are more.....complimentary players.

 

This season like last season there is a lot of hype over Horvat and Boeser, well really for 3 seasons now, this year might/probably see Elias Pettersson.

That makes only 4 NHL players in 5 years of drafting, so if this continues as it is going, well do the math, the team still needs at least 3 NHL high end quality forwards and if Groot comes back and if Hughes can play in the NHL, remember Subban could skate around players, had speed but size handicapped him and Hughes is smaller, then the team would still need 3 more top 5 dmen. Drafting only at this rate would see Horvat retire before a team is assembled.

 

So

 

Trades are needed and necessary. Teams do not want to trade the types of players the Canucks need but some will have to in order to keep their up and coming stars they have already invested so heavily in as to cause cap problems. Top players have been traded before they became stars or later, Sundin, Sequin, Carter, B.Hull, Kessel, Thorton, there aren't many but there are some.

 

So teams going into cap hell in the next 2 years, Edmonton, Toronto, SanJose, …….?

 

I am still liking the idea, hope, wish of landing Puljujarvi, I really think is doable and a win, win for both teams.   

 

 

 

 

Have you been hanging out with apollo and drinking the optimism Kool-Aid? 

 

I don’t think that aside from Eriksson and Archibald that we have any bonafide NHL’ers.

 

Jeez, give your head a shake - the Canucks will never have a post season birth again, ever, Might as well jump on another teams bandwagon.

 

I’m all in in Montreal to win it all.

[luckylager]

I see poolparty being a bit of a conflict piece, long term. And in order to get him we'd have to give up young, quality players.

And we can't do that

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, coastal.view said:

it's doable?

Who Alf?  He's married.  Wait, you're talking about a hockey trade?  Oops.

[The Lock]

I love how we just talk about trades like it's easy to do. Yeah, let's just trade player x for player y because "it's necessary".

 

Okay, what if the other team doesn't want to do that deal? What if they or even us have other plans? People on this forum here often claim they aren't treating the league like it's one of the EA sports games, but with a lot of the threads here, I kind of wonder if they are treating things that way anyway.

 

The necessity of trades does not make a trade feasible. It does not make a trade happen. It does not really translate to much of anything really other than individual wants disguised as "necessary transactions that need to take place because my opinion is right and damn if anyone else thinks otherwise".

[Toews]

We overestimate the return that we will get for some of our pieces. We have some useful pieces that will fetch value on the market. Tanev being one of those assets, he will be in demand but that doesn't mean someone will trade an established talent that is 7-10 years younger than him and in team control for a lot longer. Contenders want to add to their lineup, not make a lateral move. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

I think a great many of us have over estimated when and how long it takes prospects to mature and be ready for the NHL in a way that will create an impact, by seeing Bo and Brock have good first seasons. But the truth of the matter is that we just lost 2 players that were albeit at the end of their careers, still world class players, in the sense that teams playing against them would still have to use quality defenders against them.

 

Now, in this particular moment in time, we now have a team, that will have as a 1st line a 1b line, and by that, I mean we have no elite or generational players on in. In addition, we have no elite 2 line players, we have in fact either a veteran 2nd line, which should be a 3rd line, or a young not completely developed second line...In either case, our 2 top lines will have their work cut out for them this year.

 

Our defense, is much the same, as both Tanev and Edler are 2/3 players, and IMO, there is nothing close to them in quality, as the remaining defensemen are more in the light of 4/5 type defensemen.

 

This is not to slag our prospects in any way, and their arrival is coming soon, but the simple fact is that our prospects are a year or two away from being impact players, (this is aside from Pettersson, who will being playing an offensive role on the PP), but in general, other than Pettersson, all other prospects will need time to mature in Utica for some time, if not least the season, or injury callup.

 

I do not see this as a negative, as we are close, but what I see is a team that will struggle this year scoring goals, which put us right back near the bottom. For one more year.

 

IMO, management should always look for team improvements, and taking cap and moving veterans for the long haul may be the only option at the TDL, but that will only go to show you us just how poorly our veterans are thought about around the league.

 

Do we over-react and trade away a Tanev or Edler and be left with a hole, or move a Sutter and have no defensive center, or even move a Goalie...………….well the question for me is,,,,,what is the return, and who is our replacement? But in saying all that...……..we are not getting a premier offensive prospect (19 to 22) player...….no chance in hell.

 

Let us give this some time and see where we are near the TDL

[kenhodgejr]

I think we shouldn't look at acquiring any wingers until our defence issues are solved

[Alflives]

8 hours ago, kenhodgejr said:

I think we shouldn't look at acquiring any wingers until our defence issues are solved

EXACTLY this.  We are fine up front.  We need more talented young D-men.  Or one older guy like BIG BUFF.  

[Hairy Kneel]

Where are our drafted D men?Are they all taking 5 years to develop? 

seems we draft D men and they disappear.

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

Any trade the Canucks make at this point should involve a defenseman or a goalie.

[TheGuardian_]

11 hours ago, coastal.view said:

that's it?

 

it's doable?

 

but how? um.. details please

because i completely doubt it is doable

Doable, but not for free. It would take a young player/prospect/picks, maybe retention, take back salary and a vet dman. Apart from Boeser, Horvat and Pettersson JP is a huge upgrade on the rest.

11 hours ago, luckylager said:

I see poolparty being a bit of a conflict piece, long term. And in order to get him we'd have to give up young, quality players.

And we can't do that

 

He would be an huge upgrade for all but 2/3 young players, Edmonton has two or three other young players that are also upgrades but not in JP's level.
 

10 hours ago, The Lock said:

I love how we just talk about trades like it's easy to do. Yeah, let's just trade player x for player y because "it's necessary".

 

Okay, what if the other team doesn't want to do that deal? What if they or even us have other plans? People on this forum here often claim they aren't treating the league like it's one of the EA sports games, but with a lot of the threads here, I kind of wonder if they are treating things that way anyway.

 

The necessity of trades does not make a trade feasible. It does not make a trade happen. It does not really translate to much of anything really other than individual wants disguised as "necessary transactions that need to take place because my opinion is right and damn if anyone else thinks otherwise".

That is all that happens here, talk, that is why I posted sometimes topics make sense, BTW this is ALL EA sports stuff regardless of the absurdity of the suggestions, this forum just expresses posters hopes/wishes in a sometimes more realistic explanation.

10 hours ago, Toews said:

We overestimate the return that we will get for some of our pieces. We have some useful pieces that will fetch value on the market. Tanev being one of those assets, he will be in demand but that doesn't mean someone will trade an established talent that is 7-10 years younger than him and in team control for a lot longer. Contenders want to add to their lineup, not make a lateral move. 

You are very correct, there is a lot of over estimation of talent by posters, that is one reason a few posters doggedly are posting "wait 2 or 3 years for the prospects", they are one's that see how bad the team is and how long it could take before respectability to return, unfortunately they also are overrating prospect talent and underestimating team needs but by promoting the prospects so much they are acknowledging just how far this team needs to go.

Why teams trade talent, money and cap constraints. Edmonton just experienced Tanev shutting down the best player in the world in a mean nothing game only two Canucks have done that Tanev and Groot, Edmonton needs a good shutdown or stay at home dman so Nurse, Klefbom or Larrsson can be more offensive minded, they could use another player with playoff experience especially on defence.

 

[TheGuardian_]

18 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Any trade the Canucks make at this point should involve a defenseman or a goalie.

Edler has a clause contract and would be a rental likely with a condition attached to his deal, Tanev was given a clause contract as well both would need to agree.

Edmonton could use DiPietro or Demko.

 

Idea,

 

Tanev (retain 1/2 salary), DiPietro, Joulevi 

for

Puljujarvi, Sekera (clause), Benson, pick(s) 2nd and/or 3rd - 2020

[vannuck59]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Edler has a clause contract and would be a rental likely with a condition attached to his deal, Tanev was given a clause contract as well both would need to agree.

Edmonton could use DiPietro or Demko.

 

Idea,

 

Tanev (retain 1/2 salary), DiPietro, Joulevi 

for

Puljujarvi, Sekera (clause), Benson, pick(s) 2nd and/or 3rd - 2020

No to that trade

[coastal.view]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Doable, but not for free. It would take a young player/prospect/picks, maybe retention, take back salary and a vet dman. Apart from Boeser, Horvat and Pettersson JP is a huge upgrade on the rest.

 

ah there we go

the details

sweet

i'm sure the oilers will find that offer

fills their existing needs quite well

 

can you be any vaguer  ??

what a waste of time

[TheGuardian_]

10 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I think a great many of us have over estimated when and how long it takes prospects to mature and be ready for the NHL in a way that will create an impact, by seeing Bo and Brock have good first seasons. But the truth of the matter is that we just lost 2 players that were albeit at the end of their careers, still world class players, in the sense that teams playing against them would still have to use quality defenders against them.

Prospects that will become impact players are usually only in development for one and at the most 2 years if at all, the length of time seems to indicate the level and impact they will have in the NHL, dmen are an exception sometimes but even most good ones are no more than 2 years, more than that is in the 5/6 spots.

 

The amount of unfair expectations that will be loaded on Bo and Boeser, even unintentionally, could have negative consequences of varying degrees from performance to attitude.

 

This management group has known for 5 years that they didn't have replacements for the Sedins but have used 50% of top 10 picks for dmen. Well it could be fun to watch Boeser and Pettersson get experience

 

I hope they don't just trade for some other team's older 3rd liner and try to sell him as a rebuilding cornerstone, upgrading players on this 2nd worst team in the league should/would not be a stretch but are those players good enough for the money to play the same position on a top ten team? 

[TheGuardian_]

43 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

No to that trade

Why?

35 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

 

ah there we go

the details

sweet

i'm sure the oilers will find that offer

fills their existing needs quite well

 

can you be any vaguer  ??

what a waste of time

Tanev (retain 1/2 salary), DiPietro, Joulevi 

for

Puljujarvi, Sekera (clause), Benson, pick(s) 2nd and/or 3rd - 2020

 

Someone already posted no. No reason was provided.

 

Why would Edmonton do it?

Tanev - Klefbom/Benning - Tanev can carry Klefbom/Benning or Nurse by himself

Nurse - Larsson

Edmonton gets a pretty solid top 4 defence and 2 years of Tanev at 2.2 mil and he will still have value, in 2 years

Dipietro as back up next year and OJ as a 1rst round selection PR "bling" to make it look better, years to evaluate winners and losers. 

Cap control - they already have Ratti for secondary scoring, JP will need a substantial bump so will Talbot.

 

Canucks obviously get two centers under 22, one who already has NHL poise.

The exchange of picks has to do with PR stuff, could be conditional swapping of picks like for each round of playoffs the Canucks pick closer to first round starting at an exchange of 3rds/4ths. The Nucks trade their 3/4 for Oilers, no playoffs, Oilers go 2 rounds then Oilers 2nd - Canucks 4th, if Oilers win the cup in two years then it becomes their 1rst (#31 overall) for Canucks 3rd (likely 60/70's)