[Discussion] Our Weakest Link: Defense. Can We Afford to Lose Forwards for D Via Trades?

[khay]

I don't think we can afford to lose a player of Horvat's caliber because we don't have anyone with his skillset.

 

Horvat is as fine as you get for playing down low, net front presence on PP. If he gets a position in front of the net with his stick down, I don't think there are many defenders that can box him out. He is strong on the boards. No defender wants to get in his way when he is on one of his bull rushes. And his body is built pretty thick and that means he is durable. All these characteristics are very favourable for us in the playoffs. 

 

As you say, we may consider trading him is if we are sure that Gaud can replace him. Gaudette will be great for us no doubt, but IMO, he is more like Kesler whereas Bo is built more like Messier. Messier was known as moose for a reason and he was great in the playoffs. I think Bo will be valuable to us in the playoofs like Messier was to the Oilers-Rangers. If we trade Bo, I think he will be dearly missed in the playoffs.

 

EP-Bo-Gaudette as our center depth with EP having Gretzky like vision, Bo having Messier like grit and strength to go along with skill, and Gaud being skilled and yet agitating player like Kesler.

 

Besides, Hughes is a dynamic D and Juolevi is a fine PMD. I think we will be fine.

 

 

[canuktravella]

 petersson horvat gaudette beagle as our 4 centers will be great next yr watch sutter moved at deadline for picks or a decent d prospect 

[khay]

1 hour ago, coolboarder said:

 

Depth will take a hit once Edler become a free agent, MDZ's contract expires at end of this season and Pouliot is given his last chance to prove himself and we don't know what Hutton can bring and he is slow to making a decision when it comes to breakout passing.   Tanev and Gudbransen will be with us for a few more years and we have spots to fill.  Hughes is not a guarantee as NHL game is faster and bigger than the NCAA.   Juolevi is one I can see filling up as soon as this season with injury call-up.   We still need only one top 4 D or a top D and Hughes might be top D.   We are short for D depth in case of injury next season.   Would one D in a trade make a big difference to our development and team system in the current season?

I think there is high probability that Edler re-signs. His wife is from here and as long as we give him a decent offer, he will accept it.

 

Tanev may be traded in the off season since he will hit UFA in 2020. Hopefully we re-sign him in 2019 summer.

 

Gud will be around.

 

Stecher should get better with time.

 

Yes, MDZ, Pouliot, and Hutton are likely gone. 

 

Juolevi will make NHL debut this season.

 

At least one of Woo, Briesbois, Tryamkin, and Chatfield should be on the roster at some point.

 

NHL game being fast won't be an issue for Hughes but sure, it remains to be seen if he can handle the strength of NHL forwards. But if we ever make a big decision such as trading Horvat, it better be after we get some confirmation that Hughes won't pan out as #1D.

 

Hughes

Juolevi

Edler

Tanev (hopefully)

Stecher

Gud

Woo/Briesbois/Chatfield/Tryamkin

 

It seems to me that all we need is to sign a depth defenceman or two

 

 

[DarkestThought]

The forwards are young and and we shouldn't trade this year for defence maybe next year if some of our prospects don't pan out for their roles..

 

Cough Virtanen.. jk

[48MPHSlapShot]

It may be something to consider down the line, but not until we know what we have with our forward group. Gaudette is a great prospect, but hasn't proven much at the pro level yet. For all we know he could pull a Cole Cassels on us. Or someone could surprise us and end up a way higher end player than we expect. Point is we don't know what we have yet, and we'll be in a much better position to address our defensive needs in a year or two when we have a better idea of just what our prospects actually are.

[rizzuto&hatoum]

Per Yahoo's top 300, Horvat is rated the 38th best centre. The D's in his neighbourhood include Keith, Petry, Green, Klefbom,  The ESPN list is similar.

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Top-300-Yahoo-Pos.-Eligibility-no-Projections.pdf

 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, coolboarder said:

I have no confidence toward him if I were them.

 

I don't even want a GM job.  The thread is all about feedbacks and ideas how to stabilize the D via the trades.

If we get Jack Hughes next draft, then I’d be open to doing what Columbus did (moving RJ) for a top young number one D like Seth Jones.  I don’t know who that young D would be, but under those circumstances, I’d move Bo.  So if we get Jack Hughes, who would be a D man we would expect for Bo?  I think the guy would need to be the level of Provorov.  

[*Buzzsaw*]

That's right.... we want to trade away our #2 Center and top scorer two years ago cause he isn't burning up the league in the first two games. 

 

This is a REBUILD...  that means you don't start trading away all your good young players for an established veteran... for one, there are no cheap available D's on the market.

 

No, JB needs to continue what he is doing... drafting D and looking around for other young prospects.

 

Canucks are not contenders... it is not a case of them needing just one more piece to compete.  This is a longterm process.

 

 

[VanGnome]

3 hours ago, coastal.view said:

these so called theoretical positions are soooo weak 

 

if you think sutter or horvat will fetch a top d man (and not just a prospect who requires additional development)

please identify the player you target and explain why his team would entertain such a deal

otherwise this is wishful thinking

The Johansen for Jones trade is the most obvious precedent. Both were young, up and coming stars in both of their respective positions. When we objectively look at it as fans we are not taking into account what the management of each respective team is thinking vis a vis their needs, their future plans and direction. Only they can know that information, so when we say "X player will never get a player of Y caliber" it's only looking at it from the perspective of the surface level details.

Another recent example is Hall for Larsson, we honestly do not know what Chiarelli was thinking, what his thought process was at the time. So I'm unwilling to rule out any possibility, no matter how remote we all think it might be.

Horvat has a lot of potential still, is still just 23 and this year will be a big indicator to see if he continues to progress or if he's reached his peak. Remember we all thought his "ceiling" was less than where he is now, both in terms of raw skill and ability.

I agree that Sutter will not fetch us the return we need, you need to give quality to get quality, however I am not at all convinced that the Canucks pro scouting is not nearly good enough to warrant even considering trading Horvat. For now, the only trades we've won, are those where we've acquired young unproven players (Dahlen, Motte, Granlund), and in relative terms to what we've given up to acquire them we've definitely won those trades. However trading Horvat represents a major blockbuster level trade, and we haven't seen enough "B tier" trades to be confident in the returns we get for the players we trade out of that magnitude.

[samurai]

Tanev has played great the last 2 games but at the level he always gets injured.  I like Tanev but the nucks if they get a good offer should move him.  And I mean a good offer.  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

I don't see you anyone can pencil in Gaudette as the #2C for the Canucks when he's played a grand total of 7 professional games (two of them at the AHL level).  Could he in the future?  Sure, but remember he's only one year younger than Horvat & tell me which has accomplished more at the NHL level.

[billabong]

i look at our D and just want to shake it like a etch a sketch and start over again

 

move del zotto and hutton for sure and maybe tanev and/or edler at the deadline then re-sign him in the summer

 

 

 

[wildcam]

3 hours ago, the grinder said:

you would be stupid to trade Horvat  when we have hughes coming in next year 

I agree why even think about trading Bo? We trade Bo for a top D man we are still not making the playoffs.

We have to remember only 2 yrs away and we have D help coming, Juolevi should be a # 5 guy after Xmas

and we have Hughes next season...Would trade Sutter before trade deadline and get a young D man in return..

 

Have to keep on rebuild path and we will have a very good team in 2 yrs...Exciting but no stupid trades to try and make playoffs it will hurt rebuild..

 

[Rob_Zepp]

3 hours ago, coolboarder said:

 

 

I don't even want a GM job.  The thread is all about feedbacks and ideas how to stabilize the D via the trades.

And this post is saying to be patient and let the draft picks develop and avoid trading away up and coming elite forwards.   I repeat, don’t make short-sighted moves as the process based upon patience is working just fine.

[Lancaster]

Best not to make any rash decisions for this season, as this is still a rebuilding year.

 

If next season, Hughes decides to turn pro and comes as advertised, OJ becoming the player he's supposed to be when drafted, and Tryamkin wants back in the NHL.... suddenly a lot of the defensive issues will be gone.  

 

The only trades that would make sense is if the Canucks trade a young struggling forward for a young struggling defenseman in a lateral trade.

[Rim Jobson]

Defense is definitely 1 weak link on this team; however I would say goaltending is the weakest. We are currently employing one average NHL backup and one AHL backup.

 

Hopefully Demko and or DiPietro evolves into the starter we so desperately need because we just simply dont possess the offence needed to overcome our current netminders' shortcomings.

[vannuck59]

36 minutes ago, Rim Jobson said:

Defense is definitely 1 weak link on this team; however I would say goaltending is the weakest. We are currently employing one average NHL backup and one AHL backup.

 

Hopefully Demko and or DiPietro evolves into the starter we so desperately need because we just simply dont possess the offence needed to overcome our current netminders' shortcomings.

Once again its not our goaltending its our defense .

[BigTramFan]

I think we need to be patient and see how our young D prospects develop.

 

If there is one thing we could do to stabilise things it would be to go after someone like Myers as a UFA. Don’t want to give up young talent to do this, but using some cap on a top UFA when we should have quite a lot available due to being: unlikely to keep MDZ on the books, unlikely to resign Edler to his current salary, and may trade Tanev in his last year.

 

Here is a rough plan to get it done without trading Horvat...

 

At 2019 TDL trade MDZ and bring Juolevi up, run with:

Edler Gudbranson

Hutton Tanev

Juolevi Stecher

(Pouliot Biega)

 

2019/20 season:

Resign Edler for 2 years @$4m

Get Tyler Myers in FA for 6 years @$8m

Sign Q Hughes

Trade Pouliot

 

Opening night lineup:

Edler Tanev

Hughes Myers

Juolevi Stecher

(Hutton Gudbranson)

 

Trade Tanev at TDL 2020, new lineup after TDL:

Hughes Myers

Edler Stecher

Juolevi Gudbranson

(Hutton Biega)

 

2020/21 season:

May be able to add Tryamkin, Woo, Rathbone, Chatfield, Brisebois...

Look at trading Edler, Guddy...

[J.I.A.H.N]

I think you have to take a look at the whole picture

 

1. We have a pretty good stable of young forwards

2. We have a pretty strong future group of Defensemen

3. Our rebuild is not over yet....give us this year and next, then if you can't see the light of day, then make a big trade

 

So ………….

Thought  #1, which no one has answered me as of yet. Can Tryamkin's contract be bought out?

Thought #2 We keep Horvat

Thought #3 We draft Kappo

 

How does our Defense look when our forwards mature, and always have the puck...……...

 

Hughes   Tryamkin

Edler       Gudbranson

Juolevi     Tanev

Briseboise  Stecher

Saunter    Chatfield

 

To me this seems like a pretty decent top 10 Defensive Pool

 

My dream is we move Baertschi (2nd), Sutter (2nd), MDZ (4th), Hutton (3rd), Pouliot (3rd), Nilsson(7th), Biega(5th) all for picks at the TDL, yes some will be for high picks, I don't care

 

Graduate who we can, and  bring back Tryamkin, sign Hughes, and hopefully bring up Guadette and Demko all at the end of the year

 

As for Horvat for a better Dman...…..I would rather just continue the rebuild

 

But Value? Horvat = Trouba………….IMO, but neither are going anywhere

[Ghostsof1915]

4 hours ago, rizzuto&hatoum said:

Per Yahoo's top 300, Horvat is rated the 38th best centre. The D's in his neighbourhood include Keith, Petry, Green, Klefbom,  The ESPN list is similar.

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Top-300-Yahoo-Pos.-Eligibility-no-Projections.pdf

 

Where was Hall in relation to Larsson?