Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Public vs Private School Education


ReggieBush

Public vs Private School Education  

65 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

I read an interesting article in the Vancouver Sun today

 

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/op-ed/beth-green-private-schools-form-an-important-part-of-b-c-s-school-system

 

 

Spoiler

 

It’s about time we recognized a simple fact about B.C. education. The province’s independent schools are a positive complement to public schools.

While not identical in their methods or environments, both help to achieve the common good purpose of educating the public. And new research is now establishing how independent schools contribute to educating the whole person, not just academically but socially.

We can now confidently say that B.C.’s independent school graduates cultivate diverse social ties, are active and engaged members of their communities, are committed to the well-being of their neighbours and are ready to give of both time and resources. And, as a bonus, they generally look back on their high school days positively. It so happens they also feel more strongly than public school grads do that they’re prepared to face real life.

This more complete look at provincial school outcomes comes thanks to the newly published B.C. findings of the 2018 Cardus Education Survey. It compares B.C.’s public school graduates to grads from Catholic, Evangelical Protestant and non-religious independent schools. Controlling for things like family background and income, we’re able to isolate the effect that schools have on students. The results are telling.

Take civic engagement. Many Canadians worry about the loss of civility in our culture, the decline in how welcoming our country is and a drop in charitable giving. There’s evidence that B.C. independent schools are helping to counteract those negative trends.

B.C.’s Protestant schools seem to shine in developing students who grow to be generous adults. Of all grads in B.C., they’re most likely to donate money to help others.

Non-religious independent schools, meanwhile, produce graduates who are 2.2 times more likely than public-school grads to volunteer. That’s a strong sign of social engagement. Religious independent school grads also display diverse social ties.

Evangelical Protestant school graduates are just as likely as public-school grads to have a friend who is gay or lesbian, a recent immigrant, of a different race, a co-worker, has a university degree, makes more than $100,000 annually, or makes less than $25,000 annually. Catholic independent school grads are almost identical to the evangelicals in this area.

B.C. independent schools don’t just help shape student character. They also help in other, more pragmatic, ways.

Non-religious and Catholic independent schools seem to excel in preparing graduates for careers. Their graduates reported average incomes up to $16,000 higher than public or evangelical Protestant grads. The non-religious and Catholic independent school grads were also more likely to attend university or a graduate program. Evangelical Protestant and public school grads were tied on that score.

And B.C. independent schools of all types seem to be doing well in preparing students for “real life.” Survey respondents (all of whom are aged 24 to 39) rated their former high schools on how those institutions prepared them for things like work, post-secondary school, and religious life. Now at least six years out of high school, those who graduated from an independent school felt more strongly than their public-school counterparts that their school had prepared them well.

The findings are clear. Independent schools are a productive and positive part of the B.C. education system, educating more than one in 10 students. Independent enrolment continues to grow, providing the province with a cost-effective means of meeting a diverse set of schooling needs. So, it’s not surprising that 61 per cent of British Columbians said in 2017 that they supported full or partial government funding for religious schools.

B.C.’s independent and public schools are complementary parts of one education system. They can and should learn from each other. The sooner we recognize this, the better the province will be able to improve education for everybody.


 

 

 

As a relatively recent graduate of a Vancouver Catholic school I can say that I am not surprised in the slightest at the findings, especially in regards to career/university prep.

 

Basically I created this thread to get CDC's opinion on a couple things, and to discuss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the votes so far speak for themselves.  Most people go to public, but believe that private school can provide a better learning environment even without government funding. Religious classes should be optional IMO

 

I am curious how much on average private school costs - does it go up significantly for higher grades ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am fine with a course on religion as long as it is expansive and covers a wide variety of religions. It would obviously also have to be a theory course rather than an applied one. I would want my kid to learn about different religions but I don't want him/her reciting verses from their favorite religious publication.

 

PS: I misread the question. I attended public school in high school but I attended private schools for the most part before then. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

Why should private schools receive government funding?

In my opinion they should receive government funding because they are still teaching kids who will go on and become parts of society. I don't think they should receive full funding, but at least partial.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, ReggieBush said:

In my opinion they should receive government funding because they are still teaching kids who will go on and become parts of society. I don't think they should receive full funding, but at least partial.

But there’s a free option available already paid for with tax money. If you decide your kid should go to private school because it’s a better education then you should foot the bill. To me it’s kinda like public vs private health care. If you wanna go the private route because you think it’s better that’s fine, it’s your prerogative, but you foot the bill. It shouldn’t be my responsibility as a tax payer to put your kid through it. What about the less affluent portion of our population? They don’t have a hope in hell of sending their kid to private school barring scholarship. I can’t imagine how much of a piss off it would be to be in that position. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Typically it costs between $15-20k per year to send a child to private school (at least the ones where my friends sent their kids to).  Also, the child has to take an entrance exam prior to being admitted to the school.  Just because you have the cash, doesn't mean your child is automatically granted admission. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

Why should private schools receive government funding?

Not all private schools are equal.

 

My wife teaches at a small private school in Victoria that only accepts students that have learning disabilities.  It's not some fancy high and mighty institution.  They get some funding from the government and the parents pay a small tuition.  They make up the difference with fundraisers like you would see from any public school PAC.

 

Pulling public funding would destroy this school and all the kids that it helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

Why should private schools receive government funding?

I'm in full support of public schooling, but every child is allotted a cost when they attend public school (say $6000).  If a child ends up going to private the costs to public education decreases by that $6000.  I'm not totally against a fraction of that going to private schools as it is saving the public system something.

 

As for religion, like @Chicken.said, it should be optional and teach it in high school.  Religious studies can be pretty interesting.  DO NOT try to mix it with Science though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

regarding the poll question above regarding whether government funding should be allocated to private schools, you all need to know a couple of things (from someone who put his kids through private school).

 

1. Government funding is limited, not sure what it is now but a few years ago is was 50% of the funding per student of what would go to a public school district. So if a SD gets $6000/kid/yr, the private school only gets $3000/kid/yr. I believe these numbers are somewhat higher now, probably closer to $7K/3.5K public/private

 

2. This means that private schools are in one way actually providing cheaper education to society, from a tax payer perspective.

 

3. People might not like the private school existing, but ending any private school funding at all actually stand a reasonably good chance of actually RAISING education costs... weird huh. Particularly for small non-high end private schools (the vast majority), parents make significant financial sacrifices to send their children there, for whatever reason (better perceived education, religious beliefs etc.). If the public funding is entirely removed, a significant number of those kids will end up in public schools, at the full $6K/yr. Plus there is the required ancillary costs (is there sufficient public schools/space to hold them?)

 

4. There is a segment of society that would like to outlaw private and homeschool education (how dare they attempt to teach something different than what the societal engineers want!). In 2015, these students totaled around 85K in BC. It's probably higher now, it keeps going up. So consider the costs of adding approx 90K students to the public system. How many schools is that? 100+. How many teachers? Lots. How much will it cost at in adding the approx $3K/ year per student? around 270 million per year additional tax dollars.

 

Real dollars folks.

 

GB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Chicken. said:

I think the votes so far speak for themselves.  Most people go to public, but believe that private school can provide a better learning environment even without government funding. Religious classes should be optional IMO

 

I am curious how much on average private school costs - does it go up significantly for higher grades ? 

I believe for me it was around $800-$1000 a year or so per child, but there were discounts for sending multiple children.

 

It's worth noting that I didn't go to some prestigious private school, just a regular Christian school.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

I'm in full support of public schooling, but every child is allotted a cost when they attend public school (say $6000).  If a child ends up going to private the costs to public education decreases by that $6000.  I'm not totally against a fraction of that going to private schools as it is saving the public system something.

 

As for religion, like @Chicken.said, it should be optional and teach it in high school.  Religious studies can be pretty interesting.  DO NOT try to mix it with Science though.

this is actually incorrect.

 

If a child goes to a private school, that private school receives 50% of the amount a public school would get. The remainder is funded by the parent.

 

Thus private schools save approx 50%, not the full amount. This is still significant though, as in 270 million significant, approx.

 

GB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Greybeard said:

this is actually incorrect.

 

If a child goes to a private school, that private school receives 50% of the amount a public school would get. The remainder is funded by the parent.

 

Thus private schools actually SAVE the tax paper money.

 

GB

That is kind of exactly what I said.  I stated if a child goes to private it saves the public school system $6000 (as a rough guess to the amount) and that I'm not opposed to the private system getting a fraction of that (1/2 is a fraction).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, BPA said:

Typically it costs between $15-20k per year to send a child to private school (at least the ones where my friends sent their kids to).  Also, the child has to take an entrance exam prior to being admitted to the school.  Just because you have the cash, doesn't mean your child is automatically granted admission. 

Public schools are great in BC .  No need to pay for private.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Toews said:

I am fine with a course on religion as long as it is expansive and covers a wide variety of religions. It would obviously also have to be a theory course rather than an applied one. I would want my kid to learn about different religions but I don't want him/her reciting verses from their favorite religious publication.

 

PS: I misread the question. I attended public school in high school but I attended private schools for the most part before then. 

I have long wanted this.  A course on world religions would be a great way to help diminish negative stereotypes, help people better understand other people's positions and ultimately help reduce the amount of hatred towards each other (in theory anyways).  I wouldn't even be opposed to having local preachers/ministers/imams/rabbis/etc come teach their perspective.  Ignorance of other people's beliefs is a huge problem we have in our culture and we have even made talking about religion culturally inappropriate.  

 

I wouldn't think a high school class would get into gritty details of theology or memorizing verses from scriptures.  I would imagine it to be more of a broad perspective.  Learn the basics of what the religion speaks about life, choices, sin, afterlife, meaning of life, humanity's purpose, basic moral teachings, origins of the religion...not memorizing verses or practicing prayer, or doing any rituals.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't need private school for a great education in BC, or most of Canada for that matter. Your kid isn't going to be appreciably smarter. But sometimes there are programs where it does make sense, like if your kid has a performing talent and then something like Stratford Hall on Commercial Drive might be something to look at if you have the bucks. 

 

But in my experience with people I've met through work, etc. private schools in BC particularly on the west side or west van are about making and keeping career contacts, and sheltering your little bugger from the real world. 

 

By no means should private school get a cent of taxpayer money tho. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Cpt.Clutch said:

I have long wanted this.  A course on world religions would be a great way to help diminish negative stereotypes, help people better understand other people's positions and ultimately help reduce the amount of hatred towards each other (in theory anyways).  I wouldn't even be opposed to having local preachers/ministers/imams/rabbis/etc come teach their perspective.  Ignorance of other people's beliefs is a huge problem we have in our culture and we have even made talking about religion culturally inappropriate.  

 

I wouldn't think a high school class would get into gritty details of theology or memorizing verses from scriptures.  I would imagine it to be more of a broad perspective.  Learn the basics of what the religion speaks about life, choices, sin, afterlife, meaning of life, humanity's purpose, basic moral teachings, origins of the religion...not memorizing verses or practicing prayer, or doing any rituals.  

I would prefer my kid learn Math , Science or even welding ...... than  religion......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

regarding the poll question above regarding whether government funding should be allocated to private schools, you all need to know a couple of things (from someone who put his kids through private school).

 

1. Government funding is limited, not sure what it is now but a few years ago is was 50% of the funding per student of what would go to a public school district. So if a SD gets $6000/kid/yr, the private school only gets $3000/kid/yr. I believe these numbers are somewhat higher now, probably closer to $7K/3.5K public/private

 

2. This means that private schools are in one way actually providing cheaper education to society, from a tax payer perspective.

 

3. People might not like the private school existing, but ending any private school funding at all actually stand a reasonably good chance of actually RAISING education costs... weird huh. Particularly for small non-high end private schools (the vast majority), parents make significant financial sacrifices to send their children there, for whatever reason (better perceived education, religious beliefs etc.). If the public funding is entirely removed, a significant number of those kids will end up in public schools, at the full $6K/yr. Plus there is the required ancillary costs (is there sufficient public schools/space to hold them?)

 

4. There is a segment of society that would like to outlaw private and homeschool education (how dare they attempt to teach something different than what the societal engineers want!). In 2015, these students totaled around 85K in BC. It's probably higher now, it keeps going up. So consider the costs of adding approx 90K students to the public system. How many schools is that? 100+. How many teachers? Lots. How much will it cost at in adding the approx $3K/ year per student? around 270 million per year additional tax dollars.

 

Real dollars folks.

 

GB

Nice post.  I hadn't thought that private schools got public funding, and could understand them not getting any, but your comments make a lot of sense.  Since the logic behind taxpayer-funded schooling is because everyone benefits from the educated society, it seems perfectly fair for those schools to get that extra support.  Especially given the report OP mentions, and there is a noticeable difference in the societal outcomes by private school grads.

 

On top of that, I would support vouchers to help lower income kids get into better schools.  Why should wealthier families get all the benefits?

 

Even Sweden has government funding for private schools, in many cases to the point where there is no tuition costs for the family.  I'm not sure we need to go that far (fully-funded), but something that improves choice, especially for lower-income families, should be a good thing.

 

I had some great teachers back when I was in school, but also a decent share of duds.  It is really unclear to me why teachers can get tenure.  Seems indefensible to me, but I don't recall having that discussion with any of my teacher friends over the years, so there might be some good reasons out there I just haven't heard about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...