Rob_Zepp Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: Honestly, Zepp, this is a cop out. What IS your reply to this? It's a legitimate statement. I watched that all playout...some of it at the rink. No one said "conspiracy against"...those are your words. "Lack of accountability" is more like it. This league has been failing to adequately address matters for years and it's still a work in progress. Any other workplace would have it done by now but the ability to let things slide and explain them away is a huge injustice to the players who'll be hurt by way of that. I was at the Avs game and was noticing a lot of stuff that isn't just hockey...it's dirty. They were embarrassed by Calgary and it was going that way again so, obviously, emotion was taking over. That has to be kept in check...it's anger management stuff. Please quit doing this...using ridiculous diversions to avoid answering questions. And just noticed that post, above. I give up, you're desperate. I generally respect your opinion (still do), just not when you throw out this garbage. I'll wait to see if you respond in a serious way or not. Speaks volumes when you don't.... Deb, if you want me to agree that the Canucks are treated differently by the league you won't get that. There is no "tactic" but when some go to the extreme and imply that there is a conspiracy against the Canucks, how can you respond seriously to that? I apologize if my twisted sense of humour gets in the way sometimes (often) but some of these posters seem to really believe that the league has it out for the Canucks. How can anyone believe that?! Back to the point, if you want me to agree that the league could do more to clean up the game, I am 100% there. That is what I don't get here - I am 100% behind anyone who is all about getting the crap out of the game that can injure but I will never agree that somehow Vancouver's players are targeted more than any other team's "stars" or that the league, or even teammates, don't do as much to protect them as is in place for any other team. That is the only place you will lose me as I don't buy it for a second. So which is it? Clean up the game or is it something specific to Vancouver (which seemingly MANY in this and similar threads seem to believe and seemingly with sincerity)? We are either in violent agreement or you have me lost in wondering how someone can think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squamfan Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 SOME ONE SHOULD DARREN MCCARTHY HIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 38 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Deb, if you want me to agree that the Canucks are treated differently by the league you won't get that. Some go to the extreme and imply that there is a conspiracy against the Canucks, how can you respond seriously to that? Back to the point, if you want me to agree that the league could do more to clean up the game, I am 100% there. That is what I don't get here - I am 100% behind anyone who is all about getting the crap out of the game that can injure but I will never agree that somehow Vancouver's players are targeted more than any other team's "stars" or that the league, or even teammates, don't do as much to protect them as is in place for any other team. That is the only place you will lose me as I don't buy it for a second. So which is it? Clean up the game or is it something specific to Vancouver (which seemingly MANY in this and similar threads seem to believe and seemingly with sincerity)? We are either in violent agreement or you have me lost in wondering how someone can think that. More of the same so I'm not going to bother beyond: The league is inconsistent and, if they truly want to get serious about eliminating the dirty stuff that puts players at risk, they can (and will). You imply a lot of other stuff but that's it, in a nutshell for me. You assuming that implications are being made may be your issue, not everyone else's. You block out any legitimate argument as a result. You still didn't really answer the stuff about Moore/Bertuzzi. But I couldn't honestly care less as it's not that important to me to have you on board with my thinking. Or even to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Just now, debluvscanucks said: More of the same so I'm not going to bother beyond: The league is inconsistent and, if they truly want to get serious about eliminating the dirty stuff that puts players at risk, they can (and will). You imply a lot of other stuff but that's it, in a nutshell for me. You assuming that implications are being made may be your issue, not everyone else's. You block out any legitimate argument as a result. You still didn't really answer the stuff about Moore/Bertuzzi. But I couldn't honestly care less as it's not that important to me to have you on board with my thinking. Or even to get it right. wow. Sure. Apologies for having the opinion that the league could do more but that the league isn't picking on any one particular team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 49 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: More of the same so I'm not going to bother beyond: The league is inconsistent and, if they truly want to get serious about eliminating the dirty stuff that puts players at risk, they can (and will). You imply a lot of other stuff but that's it, in a nutshell for me. You assuming that implications are being made may be your issue, not everyone else's. You block out any legitimate argument as a result. You still didn't really answer the stuff about Moore/Bertuzzi. But I couldn't honestly care less as it's not that important to me to have you on board with my thinking. Or even to get it right. The deal with MGM and gambling will change a lot how the game is called, they will demand some consistency. Before Bettman the players knew the tendencies of various refs, some called a lot of trips, some very tight and some let a lot go but there was consistency, none of this late game penalties for the winning side, penalties could be very lopsided. Mind you the players did manage the refs somewhat, if a guy got very one sided or pulled a stunt like what happened to Burrows, that guy might see a lots of pucks being cleared around him or find himself with the puck in his skates, players and refs spent time together and talked missed or bad calls. Anyway MGM will change "game management" who knows maybe the refs start running themselves again instead of the NHL telling them how to make calls, when to make calls..... pretty sure if the refs ran themselves the Buffalo/Dallas cup would not have been won with the skate in the crease followed up with lame excuse of a rule change just for that one game that wasn't told to Buffalo. Rome would not have been suspended for the playoffs …...that stuff should be in the past. More cameras, quicker replays and penalties (or not) via wifi all to make betting safe. The Moore/Bert stuff, the league also really dropped the ball, ya Bert did it, it had a bad outcome, but IMO there was tons of blame, Avalanche Coach, saw player being hunted, should have benched him, League should have suspended Moore for his hit on StLouis in the numbers head first into the boards, they dragged there feet "looking" into it before deciding. Moore ruined Nasund's career, never the same after. Bure on Chara, ended Chara, Keith on Daniel, Daniel wasn't the same for 4 years. But I think teams still need the "policemen" to reduce concussions, a stiff note from the NHL isn't stopping open season on star players, these guys aren't playing at staged fights, that would not be their primary job but they would have a small reputation for not wanting to plss off. Lucic has the fighting reputation but he also has 485 points. Still open season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 5 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: the league could do more If we leave it here without the footnotes, we're good. The rest is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 4 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: Bure on Chara, ended Chara, Keith on Daniel, Daniel wasn't the same for 4 years. I wish. (Although I don't hate Chara, I do hate that team so....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNucks1 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: I wish. (Although I don't hate Chara, I do hate that team so....) lol i think he meant churla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanlet Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 17 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: I forgot that that league was out to get the Canucks. First rule of any conspiracy is don’t forget about the conspiracy. Do you disagree that the league mishandled the Naslund incident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, TNucks1 said: lol i think he meant churla He did, but a girl can dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Xanlet said: Do you disagree that the league mishandled the Naslund incident? And, they've had 14 years since to get it right...but are still footdragging and "unsure" at times. That's not good leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Here's what I vividly remember about the "incident". Our star captain was taken out...leveled..head shot that left him in hospital, dazed and confused. The league knew there'd be retaliation but....it drew people in. They promoted that "the teams were out for blood". It was part of pre game montages. Was a huge rivalry that had been on simmer but now was a rolling boil....boiling over. The league went....to watch from the stands?!?! And boy, did they get an eyeful. That game was ridiculous...out of reach, yet there was Moore out there. Granato, mouthing off from the bench. Heated exchanges all over the place. And Bert was Nazzy's friend. He grabbed Moore by the jersey and blindsided him. Not without warning, because a tug on your jersey lets you know..but he chose NOT to turn and the rest is ugly history. A dogpile ensued and I'm fully convinced that likely did more damage than that one, gloved punch. Moore and his parents tried to sue. The league is still doddling. Still explains and misses things and...takes time now to check a number, but not to see why a guy is on his hands and knees on the ice away from the play. You're damned if you do/don't in respect to retaliation. This team is obviously still shell shocked by it because, well, we have history written about us and it's not in a good way. But things were supposed to change. I, personally, am still waiting. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Xanlet said: Do you disagree that the league mishandled the Naslund incident? They have mishandled many issues for sure. I wasn't close to the "Naslund incident" so assume it wasn't optimal. My guess it wasn't the only issue mishandled that season and also that if Naslund had been similarly impacted while playing for any other team, the level of handling/mishandling would not have been any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 So it's ok then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 11 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: They have mishandled many issues for sure. I wasn't close to the "Naslund incident" so assume it wasn't optimal. My guess it wasn't the only issue mishandled that season and also that if Naslund had been similarly impacted while playing for any other team, the level of handling/mishandling would not have been any different. The problem is there was nothing illegal about it. It was two players pursuing a loose puck from different directions on a collision course. They could see each other and both knew the other was coming hard for the puck. Moore swept the puck away and braced for contact. Naslund realizing he was losing the race reached as far forward as he could extending himself into a low awkward and vulnerable position just before contact. It was an ugly hit but you can't suspend a player for doing nothing illegal. The only thing mishandled was by Bertuzzi. He was face to face with Moore trying to talk him into dropping the gloves. Moore turned and skated away and the sucker punch followed. Bert should have just dropped the gloves and grabbed Moore when they were face to face. Why bother giving him the choice? I can only guess he was trying to avoid the instigator penalty. Stupid considering the game was already lost. Who would have cared about an extra 2 minutes in an already lost game? Nobody. And vigilante justice would have been served. Most here don't like my opinion of the hit. But were I in Moore's position I wouldn't have done anything different in pursuing a loose puck. Naslund on the other hand made a really poor choice putting himself in such a vulnerable position. Even if he'd made contact with the puck first he would have got creamed in that position. Had he stayed upright I think Moore would have taken more of the impact. Just a lot of poor choices through the whole ordeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 15 hours ago, debluvscanucks said: So it's ok then? Of course it isn't ok. Very few human mistakes are "ok" but, as humans, particularly adult ones, you try and learn from them and move on. Has the NHL learned enough? Probably not. However, a question a few (most certainly you included) seemingly refuse to answer is do people feel the Canucks are purposefully mistreated by the NHL. Once again, I say unequivocally I do not believe that to be the case. While some appear unfair to any of the teams at times, to believe there is a conspiracy against any particularly NHL franchise(s) by the league in terms of officiating and/or disciplinary action just seems so far beyond credible to me. I understand not all believe but I know people can believe in some pretty interesting things (look at who gets elected out there). So, NO, it is not OK but it is, in my opinion, fully understandable. If that opinion is so offensive that it takes this many pages and retorts then clearly I have severely underestimated how some people feel the Canucks's membership as an NHL franchise is somehow treated in a lesser manner than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Baggins said: The problem is there was nothing illegal about it. It was two players pursuing a loose puck from different directions on a collision course. They could see each other and both knew the other was coming hard for the puck. Moore swept the puck away and braced for contact. Naslund realizing he was losing the race reached as far forward as he could extending himself into a low awkward and vulnerable position just before contact. It was an ugly hit but you can't suspend a player for doing nothing illegal. The only thing mishandled was by Bertuzzi. He was face to face with Moore trying to talk him into dropping the gloves. Moore turned and skated away and the sucker punch followed. Bert should have just dropped the gloves and grabbed Moore when they were face to face. Why bother giving him the choice? I can only guess he was trying to avoid the instigator penalty. Stupid considering the game was already lost. Who would have cared about an extra 2 minutes in an already lost game? Nobody. And vigilante justice would have been served. Most here don't like my opinion of the hit. But were I in Moore's position I wouldn't have done anything different in pursuing a loose puck. Naslund on the other hand made a really poor choice putting himself in such a vulnerable position. Even if he'd made contact with the puck first he would have got creamed in that position. Had he stayed upright I think Moore would have taken more of the impact. Just a lot of poor choices through the whole ordeal. Soooo wrong, Naslund was reaching for the puck and Moore, you could almost say dove into him, Moore leaned into his hit at about 30 degrees and his feet left the ice, impact was the head, because Naslund was stretched out his head was lower and Moore adjusted his shoulder down to the same level. After this, lesser but similar hits were suspensions, Moore didn't make a play for the puck anymore than Keith did when he hit Daniel. Torres got suspended when he and Eberle both touched the puck at almost the same time but small Ebele was reaching and Torres was standing, his was a reputation suspension. Moore did fight, he chose Matt Cooke instead of Brad May, Cooke wasn't known for being good at fighting and was much smaller than himself. The rest of the night he was avoiding the Nucks challenges, in the room the players knew how badly Naslund was hurt I still believe the league could have defused sentiments some with a suspension as Moore was awaiting a Colorado coach could have benched him, the excuse of he benched others to prevent the Nucks from targeting the star players isn't valid. Moore Keith Matheson Is this so bad? They aren't just goons Could use a little more of Miller and this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 47 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: So, NO, it is not OK but it is, in my opinion, fully understandable. If that opinion is so offensive that it takes this many pages and retorts then clearly I have severely underestimated how some people feel the Canucks's membership as an NHL franchise is somehow treated in a lesser manner than others. To be fair, being on the west coast 3 hours behind reduces the number of fans awake or their awake time to process things that happen here, it isn't just poor calls which don't get as much attention and therefore less scrutiny it is also the star players which receive less respect as well. Those fans that are getting their information 2nd or 3rd hand rely upon the bias of the region. Sort oflike the 2010 playoffs when the media started calling the Nucks cheaters (at what I don't know) and dive artists. Out here it was obvious the Sedins were anything but. Unfortuenatey that bias infiltrated league opinion as well, they are no more immune to the effects of poor 2nd and 3rd hand biased info, hence it is popular that Rome can be suspended for being 0.2 secs late on a hit to a player that has been hit similarly 3 times earlier and Raymond could get his back broken when the puck hadn't arrived yet, 2+ ft away, with only a minor penalty called. Those dirty cheating Sedins deserved having their heads used as speedbags,YAAAAA!!!! The ordinary working fan back east, is not likely awake to witness for themselves and/or add to any complaints of a lack of seeming bias so without the mainstream media and a backlash from a large number of fans things can slip. We are just on the wrong coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: Soooo wrong, Naslund was reaching for the puck and Moore, you could almost say dove into him, Moore leaned into his hit at about 30 degrees and his feet left the ice, impact was the head, because Naslund was stretched out his head was lower and Moore adjusted his shoulder down to the same level. After this, lesser but similar hits were suspensions, Moore didn't make a play for the puck anymore than Keith did when he hit Daniel. Torres got suspended when he and Eberle both touched the puck at almost the same time but small Ebele was reaching and Torres was standing, his was a reputation suspension. Moore did fight, he chose Matt Cooke instead of Brad May, Cooke wasn't known for being good at fighting and was much smaller than himself. The rest of the night he was avoiding the Nucks challenges, in the room the players knew how badly Naslund was hurt I still believe the league could have defused sentiments some with a suspension as Moore was awaiting a Colorado coach could have benched him, the excuse of he benched others to prevent the Nucks from targeting the star players isn't valid. Moore Keith Matheson Is this so bad? They aren't just goons Could use a little more of Miller and this guy I haven't rewatched the Moore and Keith hits in a long time because I haven't really wanted to relive it. On the Moore hit, clear head shot. Naslund saw Moore coming last second and tried to avoid contact, but Moore leaned into him ensuring that he made contact. Avoidable injury for Naslund (and Moore in the future aftermath), but Moore took advantage of Naslund being in a vulnerable position. I would say most people that do not play with that intent to injure mentality would not have made the same play. Crawford's reaction on the bench was priceless after what I suppose was a ridiculous explanation from the ref. As for Keith, that was an absolutely disgusting play. Had no intention to play the puck, which is fine because the play could've been going fast and he simply didn't see Daniel not touch the puck. The disgusting part was he could have just laid the hit on the body and knocked him over and I could justifiably see it not even being an interference penalty. The crowd would've loved it and it would've been fine on both sides in the end. Keith was head hunting though and straight elbowed him in the head. I don't know what Daniel could've said or done to warrant that type of action on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, theo5789 said: Had no intention to play the puck, which is fine because the play could've been going fast and he simply didn't see Daniel not touch the puck. Watch again, the puck is 15 to 18 feet up in the air and past them both already. Moore's lean and elbow lead insured the contact. Most brutal vengeance hit, playoffs, whistles in the pockets one shift Bure was elbowed,high sticked, blindsided and boarded then he did this Canucks put Odjick in for the next 2 games, penalties go down and Canucks finish out the series. BTW Bure isn't manhandled the last 2 games vs Dallas. The younger bigger Canucks rolled over Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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