(our own) Richard Brodeur vs Wayne Gretzky

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

It was unbelievable.  Glenn Anderson was their 6th best player.  7th if you want to argue Andy Moog.

A result of a FANTASTIC scouting job in their amateur scouting department (as well as some astute trading by their GM).

 

Then for whatever reason, they got "normal" and couldn't draft the save their lives for a long period of time.

 

Had to laugh about Glen Sather crying about other teams with unlimited funds being so hard to compete with; then when he got the Rangers gig and the King Solomon secret vault of gold, he spent money like a druken soldier with nothing to show for it. 

[Kevin Biestra]

32 minutes ago, City-in-state-of-emergency said:

Every morning I look at my aging, stain collecting autograph jersey of Richard and think to myself would anyone in Vancouver remember the King. He is such a great guy too if you get to see him around downtown. I wonder how well he would fair in today's game as he was considered to be a top 10 goaltender of the 80s. 

 

He is also great oil painter in Vancouver side note dont think Gretz or Mario can compete with him n that scale 

 

 

If he had been playing for the Islanders or Oilers of the 80s, it would be King Richard that is in the Hall of Fame.  He was certainly good enough to play behind those teams and at least get them three of their four Cups in that decade.  Of course, he would have needed the Oilers to reach their peak two or three years earlier, as Richard was past his best by 1986 or so.

 

He backstopped the Nordiques to the WHA's version of the Stanley Cup, and his performance in the 1972 Memorial Cup is arguably the greatest goaltending display in the history of the tournament.

 

I think he's one of a fairly small number of goalies (guys like Mike Liut) where you could swap them in for Fuhr or Billy Smith and be guaranteed to not lose more than one of their Cups.  Pretty crazy that two of the goalies in that small group were actually the backups for the dynasty teams themselves (Glenn Resch and Andy Moog).

 

We only got King Richard in the first place because he was THIRD on the Islanders depth chart behind Smith and Resch.

[N7Nucks]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I saw them all, but Gretz was far beyond even Mario.  

Mario was the Ovi and Gretz was the Crosby? Ovi is a bit more of a beast, but Crosby is just unreal in the hockey sense department.

[elvis15]

6 hours ago, luckylager said:

It's not even close. The Oilers of the 80's were head and shoulders above the current Coil. 

 

No contest

Yup, and Gretz was better than McDavid.

 

But the Canucks were pretty poor in the 80s during Gretzky's prime. No surprise he scored a lot of goals during that time.

[luckylager]

3 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

Yup, and Gretz was better than McDavid.

 

But the Canucks were pretty poor in the 80s during Gretzky's prime. No surprise he scored a lot of goals during that time.

It's crazy to think that if McDavid was playing on that Oilers team he would have been a second line winger. There's no chance he'd take Kurri's place on Wayne's wing and as much as I hate Messier, he was a better centreman than McD is.

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

As a younger guy it definitely makes me sad I never got to see Gretzky or Super Mario or Bure.  

What McDavid does with the puck at high speed has only been done once before, and that’s Bure...thing is he’s even faster, maybe not accelerating Bure was at top speed in two steps, but in three McDavids there, and in four he’s past what Bure could do.  So enjoy the McDavid show, it’s a shame he doesn’t have much help, it would be nice if we could get a rivalry going with them at some point.  

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, stawns said:

I saw them all, but Gretz was far beyond even Mario.  

Gretzky owns four of the most incredible single seasons records, you could pick anyone of them and go head to head with Mario’s (I pick his 92 goals) best season, which was shortened because he was coming back from radiation treatment, but what he did that year was just a miraculous.  He came back a dozen or so points behind the leading scorer, and within a few short weeks caught up and passed him (Lafointaine?, Gretzky was also out with back ailments) , and went on a torrid pace right through to the end with a Stanley Cup.  Can’t remember exactly the point percentage, but an entire season would have surpassed even Gretzkys 215 points, it was just sick. 

 

Growing up with the Oilers every kid was a fan too, we still loved our Canucks, especially given they went to the final, but that team was the most exciting hockey before it since.  One year (86 I believe) they had almost two lines of players sent to the all-star game, both Moog and Furh, Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Anderson, Linesman, Coffey, Lowe and I think Huddy(I’m missing one) and Sather.  Just ridiculous, and back then players were picked on merit alone, none of this funny business today that each team sends someone, like getting a participation ribbon, you know everyone’s a winner. 

 

As a a side note Calgary was pretty darn good too, they worked hard at matching Edmonton player for player (except no alien for Gretzky), and when the Oilers faltered they went to the final in their stead, winning once and losing once (thanks to Roy, one of the most underserving teams ever to do that, the 93 team was the other).

[smokes]

7 hours ago, luckylager said:

Wayne did something special every shift.

 

oooohhhh that's why everyone compares Petey to him

[luckylager]

24 minutes ago, smokes said:

oooohhhh that's why everyone compares Petey to him

IMO, it's more to do with the way he sees and uses the ice + teammates. Deceptive little look offs, blind passes, unexpected shots... His skating posture is also very similar to Wayne's. 

 

I haven't drawn the comparison yet. I see why some do, but I won't.

 

Elias is a gift to hockey, but a different player than Gretzky. Elias has a way better shot... Lol

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Gretzky owns four of the most incredible single seasons records, you could pick anyone of them and go head to head with Mario’s (I pick his 92 goals) best season, which was shortened because he was coming back from radiation treatment, but what he did that year was just a miraculous.  He came back a dozen or so points behind the leading scorer, and within a few short weeks caught up and passed him (Lafointaine?, Gretzky was also out with back ailments) , and went on a torrid pace right through to the end with a Stanley Cup.  Can’t remember exactly the point percentage, but an entire season would have surpassed even Gretzkys 215 points, it was just sick. 

 

Growing up with the Oilers every kid was a fan too, we still loved our Canucks, especially given they went to the final, but that team was the most exciting hockey before it since.  One year (86 I believe) they had almost two lines of players sent to the all-star game, both Moog and Furh, Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Anderson, Linesman, Coffey, Lowe and I think Huddy(I’m missing one) and Sather.  Just ridiculous, and back then players were picked on merit alone, none of this funny business today that each team sends someone, like getting a participation ribbon, you know everyone’s a winner. 

 

As a a side note Calgary was pretty darn good too, they worked hard at matching Edmonton player for player (except no alien for Gretzky), and when the Oilers faltered they went to the final in their stead, winning once and losing once (thanks to Roy, one of the most underserving teams ever to do that, the 93 team was the other).

 

The mid 80s Oilers were terrifying.  Linseman as your...10th? best player...

 

I just looked at the 91 Penguins as well.  Six (already in) Hall of Famers in that lineup, plus Jagr (guaranteed) and Barrasso (should get Vachoned soon).  And that's not counting prime Kevin Stevens, prime John Cullen, Ulf "the knee disintegrator" Samuelsson, etc.

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, luckylager said:

It's crazy to think that if McDavid was playing on that Oilers team he would have been a second line winger. There's no chance he'd take Kurri's place on Wayne's wing and as much as I hate Messier, he was a better centreman than McD is.

 

The only players better than McDavid would have been Gretzky and maybe Coffey.  I think he might have just ended up on Gretzky's left wing, and we would have seen Wayne break 250 points in a season.

[danjr]

Wayne had a great shot, and a great slapper....No one will ever have a better backhand.  Only person better with accuracy was Mike Bossy.

 

The Oilers of the 80's crushed the Canucks time after time.  I know there was a 13 - 0, a 11 - 0 and a few other's that were as embarrassing.  Though we eventually beat them 11 - 0.

 

Mario was awesome, but Wayne so far ahead of him.  Small things Wayne could do, other's couldn't.  99 would watch a puck ring around on the boards high.  He'd bat it down and have it drop right at his feet.  Hand eye was amazing.  Did he not score #500 against the Canucks on a baseball swing?

 

The Great One would get the puck shorthanded and skate circles through the opposing team just to eat time off the clock.  No one was as elusive as Gretzky.  You could not hit him, he had precognition.  Do your self a favour and dig into his stats. He changed the game.  The 4 on 4 Oilers rule.  They were just to lethal.  Embarrased every other team.

[luckylager]

10 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

The only players better than McDavid would have been Gretzky and maybe Coffey.  I think he might have just ended up on Gretzky's left wing, and we would have seen Wayne break 250 points in a season.

I'm not so sure. Kurri had a better shot than McD.

Think of how lethal his shot would have been if he used these composite cheater sticks.

Kurri was a full on snipe show. Ovie quality shot.

[Toyotasfan]

Common trivia question is who Gretzky scored his first goal against, Glen Hanlon / Canucks.

Maybe Peterson should remind Mike Smith next time they play that he made him a trivia question.

[Kevin Biestra]

26 minutes ago, luckylager said:

I'm not so sure. Kurri had a better shot than McD.

Think of how lethal his shot would have been if he used these composite cheater sticks.

Kurri was a full on snipe show. Ovie quality shot.

 

I said left wing.  Kurri would have stayed on the right, and McDavid on the same line would have been impossible to pass up, especially if you wanted to keep Messier for faceoffs on the second line.

 

Semenko could learn to play defense or something if Gretzky really needed protecting in real time.  Not like a defenseman would really be needed with a Gretzky McDavid Kurri line.

[luckylager]

9 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I said left wing.  Kurri would have stayed on the right, and McDavid on the same line would have been impossible to pass up, especially if you wanted to keep Messier for faceoffs on the second line.

 

Semenko could learn to play defense or something if Gretzky really needed protecting in real time.  Not like a defenseman would really be needed with a Gretzky McDavid Kurri line.

I dunno if you remember hockey in those days.

You absolutely needed to have a goon playing forward and a goon on D when two elite players were on the ice together.

McD would have been playing on Messier's wing. His speed and flash would have been entirely unnecessary on Gretzky's wing.

[Kevin Biestra]

53 minutes ago, luckylager said:

I dunno if you remember hockey in those days.

You absolutely needed to have a goon playing forward and a goon on D when two elite players were on the ice together.

McD would have been playing on Messier's wing. His speed and flash would have been entirely unnecessary on Gretzky's wing.

 

I know I'm flirting with some Chelios-on-Propp style action with that line, but I'd always have McSorley out there on D.  Maybe the Messier line would be the greatest net benefit though.

[stawns]

17 hours ago, IBatch said:

Gretzky owns four of the most incredible single seasons records, you could pick anyone of them and go head to head with Mario’s (I pick his 92 goals) best season, which was shortened because he was coming back from radiation treatment, but what he did that year was just a miraculous.  He came back a dozen or so points behind the leading scorer, and within a few short weeks caught up and passed him (Lafointaine?, Gretzky was also out with back ailments) , and went on a torrid pace right through to the end with a Stanley Cup.  Can’t remember exactly the point percentage, but an entire season would have surpassed even Gretzkys 215 points, it was just sick. 

 

Growing up with the Oilers every kid was a fan too, we still loved our Canucks, especially given they went to the final, but that team was the most exciting hockey before it since.  One year (86 I believe) they had almost two lines of players sent to the all-star game, both Moog and Furh, Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Anderson, Linesman, Coffey, Lowe and I think Huddy(I’m missing one) and Sather.  Just ridiculous, and back then players were picked on merit alone, none of this funny business today that each team sends someone, like getting a participation ribbon, you know everyone’s a winner. 

 

As a a side note Calgary was pretty darn good too, they worked hard at matching Edmonton player for player (except no alien for Gretzky), and when the Oilers faltered they went to the final in their stead, winning once and losing once (thanks to Roy, one of the most underserving teams ever to do that, the 93 team was the other).

It was such a great Era for hockey, and for Canadian teams.  Unmatched rivaliries, at least in my lifetime.

[Gollumpus]

15 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I said left wing.  Kurri would have stayed on the right, and McDavid on the same line would have been impossible to pass up, especially if you wanted to keep Messier for faceoffs on the second line.

 

Semenko could learn to play defense or something if Gretzky really needed protecting in real time.  Not like a defenseman would really be needed with a Gretzky McDavid Kurri line.

I recall Tikkanen played a lot on Gretzky's RW. He was a fast, aggressive and physical checker, who had a scoring knack. He was also able to draw attention to himself (agitate) which helped give room to his line mates. While McDavid may be fast, and is certainly gifted with a lot of offensive capability, I don't know if he could fill the rest of the bill.

 

                                                                                    regards,  G.

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, Gollumpus said:

I recall Tikkanen played a lot on Gretzky's RW. He was a fast, aggressive and physical checker, who had a scoring knack. He was also able to draw attention to himself (agitate) which helped give room to his line mates. While McDavid may be fast, and is certainly gifted with a lot of offensive capability, I don't know if he could fill the rest of the bill.

 

                                                                                    regards,  G.

 

Yes, between Tikkanen, Linseman and Glenn Anderson, there was plenty of reason for opponents to be distracted and pissed off.  I don't know how they could even concentrate on hockey while trying to decipher what Tikkanen was saying.