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Who owns most of the US Debt? The US itself does.


SabreFan1

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I've tried to explain this to people on CDC in different threads in the past, but nobody understands me when I try to explain that most of the US debt is held domestically. 

 

Everyone thinks that the rest of the world fuels the US debt which isn't true.

 

Here's an easy to read article that I just ran across that explains it in simple terms.

 

https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124

 

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Zerohedge today with an article that you've spent 6 trillion on wars since 2001..Thanks a bunch. Didn't someone call out "WMD" in a shrill voice? Even for thread topics.."You're with US or against us"? Is that the way?

 

The real question is what happens to world debts/global currencies when the unwashed masses lose faith in the values their respective govt's claim they hold?

Edited by Nuxfanabroad
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1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Good thing you have a guy in charge who has some expertise in walking away from debt and leaving others in holding the bag right Sabrefan1?:P

No kiddin'.  This one came out today on the NY Times:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/business/economy/trumps-tax-cut-was-supposed-to-change-corporate-behavior-heres-what-happened.html

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8 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Zerohedge today with an article that you've spent 6 trillion on wars since 2001..Thanks a bunch. Didn't someone call out "WMD" in a shrill voice? Even for thread topics.."You're with US or against us"? Is that the way?

 

The real question is what happens to world debts/global currencies when the unwashed masses lose faith in the values their respective govt's claim they hold?

I understand your response about the wars and I'm already ranting and raving about unnecessary Pentagon spending in another thread.

 

The rest I'm not sure what you're trying to say.  Can you re-word it?

 

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3 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

It actually happened the first time they tried it.  I think it was Andrew Jackson that ended them.

Yup. And he got run out of town for it. 

 

Then JFK tried too. And we will know what happened there. 

 

No one has been brave enough since. I am not American, but I believe those 2 are part of select few who really tried making a difference in that position. 

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12 minutes ago, RRypien37 said:

Yup. And he got run out of town for it. 

 

Then JFK tried too. And we will know what happened there. 

 

No one has been brave enough since. I am not American, but I believe those 2 are part of select few who really tried making a difference in that position. 

This should wig you out a bit.  I have an ancestor who was heavily involved in the first attempt at creating a federal reserve.

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51 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

I understand your response about the wars and I'm already ranting and raving about unnecessary Pentagon spending in another thread.

 

The rest I'm not sure what you're trying to say.  Can you re-word it?

 

It doesn't matter what you're "ranting & raving" about..so many people have been needlessly slaughtered, & places destroyed. Meanwhile, probably 99% of the media originating from where you are, just wastes one's time. The NYT for example..prob the only thing I'll read there(recent yrs) are obits, for they are somewhat tricky to lie about.

 

Catherine Austin Fitts(& some Mich U Prof) have a number of interviews claiming the US has some 21 trillion(same as their debt) unaccounted for. Some Gregory Hunter interviews have discussed this subject extensively. Whom are we to believe? Guv't bean counters? Disingenuous media? At this rate, "Alice In Wonderland" will double as your nation's historical documentary. Deep, dark rabbit hole.

 

The good news? If China & Russia's influence continue rising, maybe a multi-polar world will create some(prob temporary) geopolitical balance. The west has jumped the shark, & if the global community lose faith in their main currencies, no one can really say how badly a crash might look.

 

************************************ My views? *******************************(doesn't matter, but some might play 'shoot the messenger', anywhoo)

 

^The above is mostly general info/opinions I've heard/read on various sites. Yesterday listened to an interesting Nov 13th interview(recommended) with Greg Hunter & John Rubino(youtube). These two men seem level-headed, rational, conscientious & honest. I really enjoyed their intelligent discourse.

 

There are still reasonable people out there analyzing some of the matters you allude to. Down the road, the big Guv will probably strangle all these sources on the 'net, I would imagine...

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1 hour ago, SabreFan1 said:

This should wig you out a bit.  I have an ancestor who was heavily involved in the first attempt at creating a federal reserve.

Damn you and your elitist blood line. You better be bathing in money. :ph34r:

 

Was he part of the Jekyll Island Meeting? 

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3 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

It doesn't matter what you're "ranting & raving" about..so many people have been needlessly slaughtered, & places destroyed. Meanwhile, probably 99% of the media originating from where you are, just wastes one's time. The NYT for example..prob the only thing I'll read there(recent yrs) are obits, for they are somewhat tricky to lie about.

 

Catherine Austin Fitts(& some Mich U Prof) have a number of interviews claiming the US has some 21 trillion(same as their debt) unaccounted for. Some Gregory Hunter interviews have discussed this subject extensively. Whom are we to believe? Guv't bean counters? Disingenuous media? At this rate, "Alice In Wonderland" will double as your nation's historical documentary. Deep, dark rabbit hole.

 

The good news? If China & Russia's influence continue rising, maybe a multi-polar world will create some(prob temporary) geopolitical balance. The west has jumped the shark, & if the global community lose faith in their main currencies, no one can really say how badly a crash might look.

 

************************************ My views? *******************************(doesn't matter, but some might play 'shoot the messenger', anywhoo)

 

^The above is mostly general info/opinions I've heard/read on various sites. Yesterday listened to an interesting Nov 13th interview(recommended) with Greg Hunter & John Rubino(youtube). These two men seem level-headed, rational, conscientious & honest. I really enjoyed their intelligent discourse.

 

There are still reasonable people out there analyzing some of the matters you allude to. Down the road, the big Guv will probably strangle all these sources on the 'net, I would imagine...

Not willing to stick to the topic I see.  If you want to talk to me about war, we already have a thread going for that.  Right now I'm peeved off in the thread at the Pentagon pushing for even more money.

 

I'll check out the YouTube channel you listed.

 

The government has tried to back channel ways to control the internet a couple of times.  It continually failed.  Had it passed, it likely wouldn't have made it past the courts afterward.

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6 minutes ago, RRypien37 said:

Damn you and your elitist blood line. You better be bathing in money. :ph34r:

 

Was he part of the Jekyll Island Meeting? 

He was dead by the time that rolled around.  I occasionally vacationed there when I was younger though.  The place is lousy with resorts and squirrels.

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2 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Zerohedge today with an article that you've spent 6 trillion on wars since 2001..Thanks a bunch. Didn't someone call out "WMD" in a shrill voice? Even for thread topics.."You're with US or against us"? Is that the way?

 

The real question is what happens to world debts/global currencies when the unwashed masses lose faith in the values their respective govt's claim they hold?

This is why stinky money goes into real estate.

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2 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

I understand your response about the wars and I'm already ranting and raving about unnecessary Pentagon spending in another thread.

 

The rest I'm not sure what you're trying to say.  Can you re-word it?

 

Decoder ring perhaps?

Edited by CBH1926
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So 6 trillion $ in needless wars, yet we should be interested who the domestic/or Intl debt is owed to? Perhaps your weapons companies.. so great for the economy/war-biz?

 

How many women & children killed before people get their priorities straight? How many shoes must be hurled at feckless, clueless, intolerable puppets?

 

Sorry..don't wanna click onto the tainted pablum(in original post) offered up from a subservient, lackey, disingenuous media.

1 hour ago, SabreFan1 said:

Not willing to stick to the topic I see.  If you want to talk to me about war, we already have a thread going for that.  Right now I'm peeved off in the thread at the Pentagon pushing for even more money.

 

So I'd contend it IS germane to your topic. Where is debt created in the first place? Why?

 

Then the question of why the US dollar was the world's reserve currency? Inextricably linked to the sale(OPEC) of daily world oil in US $. In 2016 I started reading more articles discussing these agreements amongst countires like Israel, Saudis, US..& others like Japan, that would agree to gobble up Treasury bonds. I heard analysts openly lament the US(as a nation) had gotten fat using oil as a F***ing credit card(maintaining their US $ reserve status), since the early 70's!

 

All these nations nestled under a military umbrella. All to keep the status quo going.

 

Now the world(collectively) is about 250 Trillion in debt! Many countries are beginning to openly question/challenge a system that dates from the early 70's.

 

This house of cards will come down sooner or later. They kicked the can down the road, 10 yrs back..now kicking it in circles in a cul-de-sac. Doesn't really matter whether ones debt is inside or out.

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17 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

So 6 trillion $ in needless wars, yet we should be interested who the domestic/or Intl debt is owed to? Perhaps your weapons companies.. so great for the economy/war-biz?

 

How many women & children killed before people get their priorities straight? How many shoes must be hurled at feckless, clueless, intolerable puppets?

 

Sorry..don't wanna click onto the tainted pablum(in original post) offered up from a subservient, lackey, disingenuous media.

So I'd contend it IS germane to your topic. Where is debt created in the first place? Why?

 

Then the question of why the US dollar was the world's reserve currency? Inextricably linked to the sale(OPEC) of daily world oil in US $. In 2016 I started reading more articles discussing these agreements amongst countires like Israel, Saudis, US..& others like Japan, that would agree to gobble up Treasury bonds. I heard analysts openly lament the US(as a nation) had gotten fat using oil as a F***ing credit card(maintaining their US $ reserve status), since the early 70's!

 

All these nations nestled under a military umbrella. All to keep the status quo going.

 

Now the world(collectively) is about 250 Trillion in debt! Many countries are beginning to openly question/challenge a system that dates from the early 70's.

 

This house of cards will come down sooner or later. They kicked the can down the road, 10 yrs back..now kicking it in circles in a cul-de-sac. Doesn't really matter whether ones debt is inside or out.

*edit* OK.  I found your 250 Trillion number.  I'll read up on it.  https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-lehman-debt/

 

What YouTube conspiracy videos and conspiracy websites do you visit?  There isn't anywhere near $250 Trillion in the entire world's economy.  There's roughly $80-$85 Trillion with just under half of that as reserves (cash).  You can't owe what never existed in the first place.

 

Yes.  It does matter if the debt is internal or external especially if the US ever unilaterally cancelled it.  Cancel the internal debt, you'll hurt the world for a handful of years, but there would be time to transition to a new world economy and/or new central currency.  Cancel the external debt, all countries would immediately stop loaning the US funds and goods, and they would have to scramble as fast as possible to replace the US dollar as the central currency and in the meantime, the US would lose allies and chaos would ensue.

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Global debt has increased 100% in the last 10 years. Rather than taking their medicine governments and Central banks decided to plunge into more debt to stave off the unthinkable. Now just imagine what things would look like if it hadn't? Not a pretty picture.

 

Of all countries the most screwed is Japan. When this goes up in flames they'll be the first shoe to drop. What's going on there with their debt levels is mindbogglingly irresponsible.

 

Bank of Japan's balance sheet now larger than country's GDP

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan's central bank has become the first among G7 nations to own assets collectively worth more than the country's entire economy, following a half-decade spending spree designed to accelerate weak price growth.

 

The 553.6 trillion yen (3.79 trillion pounds) of yen assets the Bank of Japan holds are worth more than five times the world's most valuable company Apple Inc. <AAPL.O> and 25 times the market capitalisation of Japan's most valuable company Toyota Motor Corp. <7203.T>.

 

They're also bigger than the combined GDPs of five emerging markets -- Turkey, Argentina, South Africa, India and Indonesia.

Central bank data released on Tuesday showed how much the BOJ has amassed over 5-1/2 years of what it calls "quantitative and qualitative" easing policy.

 

The BOJ has become the world's second central bank after the Swiss National Bank and the first among Group of Seven countries to own a pool of assets bigger than the economy it is trying to stimulate.

 

Japan's nominal gross domestic product for the April-June, the latest data available, was an annualised 552.8207 trillion yen. The reading for July-September, due on Wednesday, is expected to show a contraction after natural disasters.

 

While some analysts credit its unique policies with lifting the economy out of decades of deflationary pressures, the BOJ has had little success meeting its two percent inflation target or reviving domestic demand and growth.

 

Some investors see the BOJ's inflation target as too ambitious and one that has forced it to keep buying a massive amount of bonds and stocks even as other major central banks have started to remove crisis-era policy accommodation.

 

At the same time, the aggressive asset purchases in recent years now mean the BOJ owns about 45 percent of the 1 quadrillion yen Japanese government bond (JGB) market, crowding out banks and other investors.

 

"The Bank of Japan's policy is clearly not sustainable. The BOJ would suffer losses if it would have to raise interest rates to, say, two percent," said Hidenori Suezawa, a fiscal analyst at SMBC Nikko Securities. "Also, in case of emergencies, such as a natural disaster or a war, the BOJ won't be able to finance government bonds any longer."

 

The BOJ's assets started ballooning when Governor Haruhiko Kuroda took the helm at the central bank in early 2013, vowing that such steps would boost Japan's inflation to two percent in two years.

 

That inflation target has proved elusive, barring a brief spike in prices after a sales tax hike in 2014. (Interactive chart on Japan's battle with deflation

 

https://www.euronews.com/2018/11/13/bank-of-japans-balance-sheet-now-larger-than-countrys-gdp

 

******************************

 

Keep an eye on Japan for a preview of what the global debt implosion will look like. Whatever shape it takes it is sure to make 2008 look like a picnic.

 

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23 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

So 6 trillion $ in needless wars, yet we should be interested who the domestic/or Intl debt is owed to? Perhaps your weapons companies.. so great for the economy/war-biz?

 

How many women & children killed before people get their priorities straight? How many shoes must be hurled at feckless, clueless, intolerable puppets?

 

Sorry..don't wanna click onto the tainted pablum(in original post) offered up from a subservient, lackey, disingenuous media.

So I'd contend it IS germane to your topic. Where is debt created in the first place? Why?

 

Then the question of why the US dollar was the world's reserve currency? Inextricably linked to the sale(OPEC) of daily world oil in US $. In 2016 I started reading more articles discussing these agreements amongst countires like Israel, Saudis, US..& others like Japan, that would agree to gobble up Treasury bonds. I heard analysts openly lament the US(as a nation) had gotten fat using oil as a F***ing credit card(maintaining their US $ reserve status), since the early 70's!

 

All these nations nestled under a military umbrella. All to keep the status quo going.

 

Now the world(collectively) is about 250 Trillion in debt! Many countries are beginning to openly question/challenge a system that dates from the early 70's.

 

This house of cards will come down sooner or later. They kicked the can down the road, 10 yrs back..now kicking it in circles in a cul-de-sac. Doesn't really matter whether ones debt is inside or out.

 

10 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

*edit* OK.  I found your 250 Trillion number.  I'll read up on it.  https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-lehman-debt/

OK.  I get the gist of what you're saying and the gist of the article.  That number is based on what every man, woman, child, government, and business owes.  That means that for every $1 in existence there's over $3 claimed on it.  The same goes with things like gold.  A bank could have 20 pounds of gold in it's vault, but it will sell 5 times that in claims on it.

 

Welcome to the world of fiat currency where things like money and precious items are worth what powerful people say they are.  Is it a house of cards, yes.  Will it eventually collapse?  Who knows, this has never been tried before on such a large scale.

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4 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Global debt has increased 100% in the last 10 years. Rather than taking their medicine governments and Central banks decided to plunge into more debt to stave off the unthinkable. Now just imagine what things would look like if it hadn't? Not a pretty picture.

 

Of all countries the most screwed is Japan. When this goes up in flames they'll be the first shoe to drop. What's going on there with their debt levels is mindbogglingly irresponsible.

 

Keep an eye on Japan for a preview of what the global debt implosion will look like. Whatever shape it takes it is sure to make 2008 look like a picnic.

Japan had little choice.  It's economy was in trouble for quite some time and the only way that it was going to see daylight was by taking out massive debt.  I still remember in the 1980's when everyone thought that Japan was going to own everything by the turn of the century.  It turns out that we had the wrong Asians in mind.  The Chinese are going to jump ahead of the US in GDP in the next 10-15 years.

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