(Article) Winnipeg Jets timeline led to Linden's dismissal

[oldnews]

Quote

Canucks were trying to accelerate things by signing Ryan Miller, Loui Eriksson and a bunch of other free agents while trading for players who were intended to help now.

Benning’s first two lottery picks, Jake Virtanen and Olli Juolevi, have also set the rebuild back. They could still develop into impact players for the Canucks which would change a lot of things. But, at the risk of stating the obvious, they’re not there yet.

This first bolded part is the usual idiocy.

When you don't have prospects, you fill those spots with placeholders.  Period.

 

The second line is even more idiocy.   If the entire article is about 'not rushing' the rething, what exactly was "set back"?   Those are two very critical, excellent pieces in this team's future.

If they're following the long-game Jets trajectory, we're not whining about expecting early returns on these players - it's the long game that matters and they're both outstanding pieces.

 

Laughable contradiction from one line to the next.   The kind of amateurish effort we've come to expect from that rag.

[lmm]

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I'm not saying they wouldn't still be good (or at least further ahead than we are), but if they had ended up with Juolevi, Jost, Brown or Nylander instead of Laine, would they be good enough to be considered the blueprint of a successful rebuild by Aquaman?

you can play the "what if" game all day.

If they did not get Laine they may have gotten Dubois, Tkachuk or Sergachev, maybe Puljujarvi developes better in the Peg.

What if one of the 4 teams ahead of Vancouver picked Pettersson? Maybe we end up with Makar, Glass or Vilardi?

The maybes could go on forever.

[Archie the grim]

3 hours ago, xereau said:

The Hobey Baker Award winner drafted in the 5th round isn't deep draft success?  Come on...

Granlund for Shinkaruk?  Total win.  Most flexible forward on the team, for a nobody.

Gudbranson for McCann? Total win.  McCann is floundering.  Guddy is showing us why he was picked so high.

Burrow for Dahlen?  Potential core star for a guy that retired 12 months later?  LOL.

Horvat's contract is quickly becoming the top value deal in the whole league.

Benning isn't perfect but come on man...

The Hobey Baker award winner still hasn’t scored a goal in the NHL. I’m hopeful that he will turn out to be a good player but still is a question mark. Granlund for Shinkaruk, it looked like Granlund was going to be a useful player last year, this year not so much. It wasn’t Gudbranson for McCann, Benning also sent 2nd and 4th picks. Dahlen is another I hope will do good,  but he hasn’t been a regular at the AHL level. Horvat is gold, no argument there. But look at some of the others contracts he signed, not too good. Nobody is going to hit a home run with every draft pick, but he has missed some good ones. He has drafted Boeser and  Pettersson, both excellent picks .but overall I’d give him an F.

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, Archie the grim said:

The Hobey Baker award winner still hasn’t scored a goal in the NHL. I’m hopeful that he will turn out to be a good player but still is a question mark. Granlund for Shinkaruk, it looked like Granlund was going to be a useful player last year, this year not so much. It wasn’t Gudbranson for McCann, Benning also sent 2nd and 4th picks. Dahlen is another I hope will do good,  but he hasn’t been a regular at the AHL level. Horvat is gold, no argument there. But look at some of the others contracts he signed, not too good. Nobody is going to hit a home run with every draft pick, but he has missed some good ones. He has drafted Boeser and  Pettersson, both excellent picks .but overall I’d give him an F.

Here's one for you:

 

[Warhippy]

54 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

The paramount point here is the Jets owner is likely the richest man in Canada. I'm not sure if he follows hockey but his patience is founded on no need to turn a profit from the Jets.  Aquaman is not on the same page as David Thompson. There is no rush because Thompson bought the team because of philanthropic / community wishes. As pointed out in the article JB really blew the first couple of drafts, you can't do that and still expect quick success. Virtanen might be showing signs of turning things around similarly Juolevi. They may become NHL regulars ( likely will ! ) but when you are drafting with that high a pick most are looking for star type players. They thankfully hit the jackpot with Boeser, Pettersson and probably Hughes. For my own part I tend to believe JB's saving grace will be Brackett. The more rope this guy gets the better off the club will be ( I hope they have him signed long term )

 

Linden may well have been onto the recipe for success, but, he had the opportunity and input during his years there and didn't step up. He was a rookie in the job and that was clear. His loss is not great and neither will the loss of JB unsurmountable. I hope Brackett stays the rest  are interchangeable. The flaw in the future of the Canucks is the inability to add pieces with FA signings or trades  

No...no he didn't.

 

People keep repeating this but it just isn't true

 

His first draft produced 3 players who will all have played more than 100 games and the jury is still out on Demko and tryamkin.

His second draft  Has produced Boeser, Brisebois and Gaudette.  1 star 2 potential 100 game players.

His third draft, Juolevi and Lockwood, both projecting very very well

The Petterson draft?  The Hughes Draft?  Both appear to be great drafts in their own rights.

 

By comparison

 

2014 saw Bennett and Dal Colle go before Virtanen, Fleury right behind him then Ritchie and Perlini who were also slated as top 10 possible players.  Not even mentioning the potential 1st overall that was Reinhardt who has been moderately disappointing and the rumour of trade possibilities.  Thus far only vancouver did well of the top 10 drafting teams outside of the 1st round

 

2015 saw a number of dismal picks thus far in the top 15, while he nailed the Boeser pick 

 

2016 Vancouver was 1 measly ball away from winning the Matthews lottery.  But in retrospect of the players slated to go top 12 OJ was arguably the highest ranked D man, Puljujarvi is a disappointment, Bean and McCleod aren't even playing yet, Sergachev gets sheltered starts on the highest offensive team in the league Keller has fallen off a cliff and the majority of people would rather sodomize a cactus than see Tkachuk on their team.  

 

Again outside of the first round in those two years.  Of the teams that drafted top 10.  The Hurricanes and Canucks have had the only significant looking success outside of the first round.

 

When people say "he flubbed his first two drafts" they never ever seem to consider what he did outside of his first pick let alone what other teams did.  His drafting has been in the upper tier of the league since he took over and compared to the other teams that drafted in the top 10 in the same time period, he's been hands down better

 

 

[Warhippy]

15 minutes ago, Archie the grim said:

The Hobey Baker award winner still hasn’t scored a goal in the NHL. I’m hopeful that he will turn out to be a good player but still is a question mark. Granlund for Shinkaruk, it looked like Granlund was going to be a useful player last year, this year not so much. It wasn’t Gudbranson for McCann, Benning also sent 2nd and 4th picks. Dahlen is another I hope will do good,  but he hasn’t been a regular at the AHL level. Horvat is gold, no argument there. But look at some of the others contracts he signed, not too good. Nobody is going to hit a home run with every draft pick, but he has missed some good ones. He has drafted Boeser and  Pettersson, both excellent picks .but overall I’d give him an F.

Since you conveniently  somehow missed my response to your summation I will refer you back to it and expect your no doubt expert analysis of why it's wrong.

 

Please don't keep us waiting

 

3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

More...blunders than wins?

 

Aside from the Eirksson signing and possibly the Gudbranson trade.  What blunders are you speaking of?  Please list them

 

His drafting?  I dunno about that, because by the numbers his drafting is actually league leading in the top 5 of the entire NHL in his tenure.  Virtanen, McCann, Forsling all NHL players.  tryamkin will/would be a 100 game NHL player if he returns without question.  Boeser looks like a top 6 player, Gaudette trending upwards very well, Brisebois looks solid.  Juolevi is doing everything right, Lockwood is on fire,  Petterson was just named the unanimous front runner for the calder, Lind and Gadjovich are marinating in the AHL, DiPietro is slated to be one of the starting goalies again for team Canada and Rathbone is no slouch either at this stage.  Without once mentioning what some are calling the steal of the draft in Hughes last year 

 

He is overseeing a very quality crop of home grown, drafted and developed players for the first time in club history and took a bottom 5 prospect pool and has turned it in to a top 5 prospect pool in the league 

 

NCAA players go where the money and ice time is.  Kerfoot was given top dollar and is playing with some brilliant talent that was not on the cancuks last year.  Schulz opted for Edmonton and how'd that work out for him?  His nephew?  Where is he playing again?  Oh yes also Edmonton for top dollar and regular ice time.  Things the canucks could not give him and how's his career projecting?  Out of the three you mentioned Schultz almost flamed out of the league before Pitts obtained him, benning is meh and Kerfoot was almost never going to come here.  Just because an NCAA player is available doesn't mean he's coming to Vancouver.

 

Hamhuis was old and slow, he handcuffed Benning by saying he was coming back here.  Dallas did Vancouver dirty with that deal and lol, look what it cost them?  Sure we got nothing for Hamhuis but Dallas coughed up big anyways and got nowhere for it.  Matthias was and IS still soft as butter for a big boy.  That shoulder injury obviously gave the team pause and Benning didn't want to give him term.  Big deal.  Aside from The Eriksson signing everything he has done has actually turned out pretty well in terms of signs and trades.  Unless you don't like Dahlen, Motte, Goldobin and Leipsic.  Oh or the picks he obtained which turned in to some pretty promising draft picks

 

His trading has been fine.  Aside from Forsling and maybe Gudbranson he has effectively won most of his trades.  Unless you want Shinkaruk back that is.

 

Honestly.  if you're going to spout the same tired crap we've effectively disproven now about 3 dozen times on this board just save yourself the trouble.  We get it.  You're looking at the RIGHT NOW and you don't like the standings and 3 weeks ago you were saying plan the parade route like a deluded Leafs fan.  Some of us know where this team is, where it's headed and what the timeline really looks like.  So unless you have an original argument just save yourself the time and don't bother typing it out

 

[aGENT]

17 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Here's one for you:

 

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Please don't keep us waiting

My favourite part, Granlund (arguably our best F this year not named Horvat or Pettersson) 'hasn't been a useful player this year'.

[stawns]

47 minutes ago, oldnews said:

This first bolded part is the usual idiocy.

When you don't have prospects, you fill those spots with placeholders.  Period.

 

The second line is even more idiocy.   If the entire article is about 'not rushing' the rething, what exactly was "set back"?   Those are two very critical, excellent pieces in this team's future.

If they're following the long-game Jets trajectory, we're not whining about expecting early returns on these players - it's the long game that matters and they're both outstanding pieces.

 

Laughable contradiction from one line to the next.   The kind of amateurish effort we've come to expect from that rag.

that article was a face palm for exactly what you stated...........the Canucks did not have enough pieces to put an NHL calibre team on the ice, nor the young draft picks to fill in spots, so JB was left with no choice but to sign guys who would, at least, give them a fighting chance.

[PhillipBlunt]

11 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

No...no he didn't.

 

People keep repeating this but it just isn't true

 

His first draft produced 3 players who will all have played more than 100 games and the jury is still out on Demko and tryamkin.

His second draft  Has produced Boeser, Brisebois and Gaudette.  1 star 2 potential 100 game players.

His third draft, Juolevi and Lockwood, both projecting very very well

The Petterson draft?  The Hughes Draft?  Both appear to be great drafts in their own rights.

 

By comparison

 

2014 saw Bennett and Dal Colle go before Virtanen, Fleury right behind him then Ritchie and Perlini who were also slated as top 10 possible players.  Not even mentioning the potential 1st overall that was Reinhardt who has been moderately disappointing and the rumour of trade possibilities.  Thus far only vancouver did well of the top 10 drafting teams outside of the 1st round

 

2015 saw a number of dismal picks thus far in the top 15, while he nailed the Boeser pick 

 

2016 Vancouver was 1 measly ball away from winning the Matthews lottery.  But in retrospect of the players slated to go top 12 OJ was arguably the highest ranked D man, Puljujarvi is a disappointment, Bean and McCleod aren't even playing yet, Sergachev gets sheltered starts on the highest offensive team in the league Keller has fallen off a cliff and the majority of people would rather sodomize a cactus than see Tkachuk on their team.  

 

Again outside of the first round in those two years.  Of the teams that drafted top 10.  The Hurricanes and Canucks have had the only significant looking success outside of the first round.

 

When people say "he flubbed his first two drafts" they never ever seem to consider what he did outside of his first pick let alone what other teams did.  His drafting has been in the upper tier of the league since he took over and compared to the other teams that drafted in the top 10 in the same time period, he's been hands down better

 

 

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

My favourite part, Granlund (arguably our best F this year not named Horvat or Pettersson) 'hasn't been a useful player this year'.

Pretty sure we could trade for Hunter back for Granlund and it would be done before the name was off Bennings lips

 

Hunter Shinkaruk
Left Wing
Born Oct 13 1994  -- Calgary, ALTA 
Height 5.11 -- Weight 180 -- Shoots L


Selected by Vancouver Canucks round 1 #24 overall 2013 NHL Entry Draft

                                            --- Regular Season ---  ---- Playoffs ----
Season   Team                        Lge    GP    G    A  Pts  PIM  GP   G   A Pts PIM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010-11  Medicine Hat Tigers         WHL    63   14   28   42   24  14   4   5   9   0
2011-12  Medicine Hat Tigers         WHL    66   49   42   91   38   8   2   9  11   6
2012-13  Medicine Hat Tigers         WHL    64   37   49   86   44   8   3   3   6   8
2013-14  Medicine Hat Tigers         WHL    18    5   11   16   29  --  --  --  --  --
2014-15  Utica Comets                AHL    74   16   15   31   28  23   4   2   6   4
2015-16  Utica Comets                AHL    45   21   18   39   18  --  --  --  --  --
2015-16  Vancouver Canucks           NHL     1    0    0    0    0  --  --  --  --  --
2015-16  Stockton Heat               AHL    17    6    6   12    2  --  --  --  --  --
2015-16  Calgary Flames              NHL     7    2    1    3    2  --  --  --  --  --
2016-17  Stockton Heat               AHL    52   15   20   35   20   5   2   1   3   4
2016-17  Calgary Flames              NHL     7    0    1    1    2  --  --  --  --  --
2017-18  Stockton Heat               AHL    63   17   15   32   30  --  --  --  --  --
2018-19  Laval Rocket                AHL    16    1    4    5    8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
         NHL Totals                         15    2    2    4    4

 

VS

 

Markus Granlund
Center
Born Apr 16 1993  -- Oulu, Finland 
Height 6.00 -- Weight 180 -- Shoots L


Selected by Calgary Flames round 2 #45 overall 2011 NHL Entry Draft

                                            --- Regular Season ---  ---- Playoffs ----
Season   Team                        Lge    GP    G    A  Pts  PIM  GP   G   A Pts PIM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2010-11  Finland U-20 National Tea   Mesti   6    3    3    6    6
2010-11  HIFK Helsinki               SM-li   2    0    0    0    0
2011-12  HIFK Helsinki               SM-li  47   15   19   34   18   3   0   0   0   0
2011-12  Kiekko-Vanta                Mesti   1    0    0    0    0
2012-13  HIFK Helsinki               SM-li  50   10   20   30   18   5   1   2   3   4
2013-14  Abbotsford Heat             AHL    52   25   21   46   22   4   2   3   5   2
2013-14  Calgary Flames              NHL     7    2    1    3    0
2014-15  Calgary Flames              NHL    48    8   10   18   16   3   0   1   1   0
2014-15  Adirondack Flames           AHL    21    9    8   17   14
2015-16  Stockton Heat               AHL    12    5    4    9   10
2015-16  Calgary Flames              NHL    31    4    3    7    8
2015-16  Vancouver Canucks           NHL    16    2    1    3    6
2016-17  Vancouver Canucks           NHL    69   19   13   32   14  --  --  --  --  --
2017-18  Vancouver Canucks           NHL    53    8    4   12    8  --  --  --  --  --
2018-19  Vancouver Canucks           NHL    23    4    6   10   12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
         NHL Totals                        247   47   38   85   64   3   0   1   1   0

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

What?  I've been married a decade, gotta spice things up my man

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, Warhippy said:

What?  I've been married a decade, gotta spice things up my man

Well played, Hippy. Well played. Ouch!

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

that article was a face palm for exactly what you stated...........the Canucks did not have enough pieces to put an NHL calibre team on the ice, nor the young draft picks to fill in spots, so JB was left with no choice but to sign guys who would, at least, give them a fighting chance.

Pffft come on man.

 

it totally worked for Buffalo, Edmonton, Toronto (pre matthews) Carolina and Arizona the last 10 years

[Warhippy]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Well played, Hippy. Well played. Ouch!

It's an Okanagan delicacy though

 

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

It's an Okanagan delicacy though

 

I was just reading up on the prickly pear cactus on the Okanagan Xeriscape Association's website. I love the foliage color:

 

 

[Gaudette Celly]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Short of Eriksson (and even he's not as bad as the sentiment surrounding him), inconsequential and none were particularly attempts to 'rush' anything (short of perhaps the *yawn* Vey move). They were vets largely brought in to support the existing team and give insulation to the ACTUAL rebuild/youth. Precisely what they have done and continue to do.

Over four years into his running the team now, when the Benning haters are left with bringing up Linden Vey as an example of his incompetence it's a defacto capitulation that they have nothing.  I can hear it now, "Canucks just won the cup in four straight; Pettersson, Boeser, and Demko dominant... yeah but Benning blew a 2nd on Linden Vey.  And that Eriksson contract, the Corrado fiasco, he should stick to scouting.  Totally set back the rebuild but he just got lucky, we need a real GM."

[-DLC-]

I'm of the "never look back" club.  Just don't see a point.

 

Knew Linden was being brought in, mostly, to wow the fans.  To have them clamber on board and sell tickets.  It's sad that he wasn't respected more for his expertise than he was a figurehead.  He's worth more than that.

 

With that, makes sense.  Problem is, it does suggest owners who won't trust in their staff and have their own ideas.  $$ driven.

 

One thing I wish our fans would take away from this read that jumped out at me:  “What everyone has to understand is when you’re bringing in young players there are going to be ebbs and flows,”

 

The quick to decide'ers throw players under the bus too quickly here.  Patience is required.  You just don't know what players "are" until you've got a good enough sample size to assess them.  Peaks and valleys are part of being human.

[Warhippy]

31 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I was just reading up on the prickly pear cactus on the Okanagan Xeriscape Association's website. I love the foliage color:

 

 

The desert and scrubland in osoyoos is an amazing place to be if you really like that kind of landscape.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

The desert and scrubland in osoyoos is an amazing place to be if you really like that kind of landscape.

I love the Okanagan. It's beautiful there.

 

I've just never seen foliage color referred to as "very spiny".

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

No...no he didn't.

 

People keep repeating this but it just isn't true

 

His first draft produced 3 players who will all have played more than 100 games and the jury is still out on Demko and tryamkin.

His second draft  Has produced Boeser, Brisebois and Gaudette.  1 star 2 potential 100 game players.

His third draft, Juolevi and Lockwood, both projecting very very well

The Petterson draft?  The Hughes Draft?  Both appear to be great drafts in their own rights.

 

By comparison

 

2014 saw Bennett and Dal Colle go before Virtanen, Fleury right behind him then Ritchie and Perlini who were also slated as top 10 possible players.  Not even mentioning the potential 1st overall that was Reinhardt who has been moderately disappointing and the rumour of trade possibilities.  Thus far only vancouver did well of the top 10 drafting teams outside of the 1st round

 

2015 saw a number of dismal picks thus far in the top 15, while he nailed the Boeser pick 

 

2016 Vancouver was 1 measly ball away from winning the Matthews lottery.  But in retrospect of the players slated to go top 12 OJ was arguably the highest ranked D man, Puljujarvi is a disappointment, Bean and McCleod aren't even playing yet, Sergachev gets sheltered starts on the highest offensive team in the league Keller has fallen off a cliff and the majority of people would rather sodomize a cactus than see Tkachuk on their team.  

 

Again outside of the first round in those two years.  Of the teams that drafted top 10.  The Hurricanes and Canucks have had the only significant looking success outside of the first round.

 

When people say "he flubbed his first two drafts" they never ever seem to consider what he did outside of his first pick let alone what other teams did.  His drafting has been in the upper tier of the league since he took over and compared to the other teams that drafted in the top 10 in the same time period, he's been hands down better

 

 

+1 just for sodomize a cactus.