Man Games Lost

[Gurn]

36 minutes ago, GritGrinder said:

I've always thought the whole extra travel excuse was lame and this chart pretty much proves that. Look at some of the teams who traveled LESS than 2000 miles than the Canucks over the entire season. Nashville, Vegas, Winnipeg, San Jose, Tampa. 2000 miles isn't even ONE full coast to coast flight, basically 4 hours in the air,  so why didn't it effect the teams mentioned as hard as the Canucks?

Total over all miles is one aspect of travel; however how many miles you travel at one time is another. Add in time zone differentials, short times between games on the road and a few other travel related issues  and the picture could/would be more complete.

[aGENT]

Poorer teams tend to have less puck possession = having to play harder/take more physical abuse = more injuries.

 

Exasperated even further with injuries and a lack of depth to cover them, making you an even poorer team, making the issue exponentially worse, etc, etc. Vicious spiral.

 

Add to that our travel and some bad luck and voila.

[Tre Mac]

22 minutes ago, gurn said:

Total over all miles is one aspect of travel; however how many miles you travel at one time is another. Add in time zone differentials, short times between games on the road and a few other travel related issues  and the picture could/would be more complete.

Agreed.  Take for instance the Canucks finished a 6 game road trip in the east and their first game back was a 4pm start local time.  It must've been really hard for their internal clocks to adjust to that.  Whereas some eastern teams play 10-20 road games but still sleep in their own beds at night. 

[DS4quality]

3 hours ago, Comethockey said:

Why was Reid Boucher recalled. Who was injured last night?

Travis Green's ego

[Glug Datt]

some injuries are just bad luck, every team gets them. but some guys are just injury prone like Salo.. Sutter, edler and Tanev seem to miss significant time every year.

edler and Tanev are among the oldest on the team, but injuries aren't guaranteed for older players around the league.. they are the 1st pairing on D, but that also isn't consistent reasoning.. they log a ton of minutes, but so do other players.. 

I think our regulars on the injured list are there because of a combination of travel, fatigue, age, position and the type of game they play. 

would they get injured as much playing for another team? impossible to say.. maybe a trade would change things, but I doubt it.. 

[oldnews]

They did address this on the most controllable level - by adding more depth - and veteran, hard minutes depth - in Beagle, Schaller, Roussel....

 

It's not simply man-games lost - it's also a matter of who they are losing.  Continually it is top pairing defensemen - and middle pairing defensemen lol - and top 6 forwards - and their shutdown centers.

 

What makes the particular losses that much more difficult to deal with is when you have overlapping losses - ie both Sutter and Beagle - or both Edler and Tanev - or both Tanev and Gudbranson - or both Sutter and Horvat......No team can really 'prepare' or sustain competitiveness over long periods when they face these kind of crucial, overlapping losses that really expose them at key positions.

 

Anyhow - I have no complaints - I liked the depth they entered the season with, particularly in their bottom six forward group and the number of NHL ready skilled forwards they have.

The one area I wondered if it might make sense to sign another veteran UFA was in the depth D area - particularly with Hutton entering the season an uncertainty - I looked at the option of re-signing Sbisa as a reasonable option to potentially replace Del Zotto - may have meant waiving one of the two, but often teams can't make it to opening night without losing a D to injury and the Canucks are always candidates for multiple D injuries.

 

The rest - is just plain luck.  Period.  Not on any medical or training staff, nothing to do with the team's systems, etc - simply b.s. bad luck.  Hard for people to accept that fact (hoping to gain some measure of control over this) - but 'it is what it is'.

[GritGrinder]

9 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

Agreed.  Take for instance the Canucks finished a 6 game road trip in the east and their first game back was a 4pm start local time.  It must've been really hard for their internal clocks to adjust to that.  Whereas some eastern teams play 10-20 road games but still sleep in their own beds at night. 

So then shouldn’t they have been used to games starting at 7pm EST since their previous games were at the same time..? Sorry bud but that’s a completely illogical argument.

[GreyHatnDart]

11 hours ago, GritGrinder said:

I've always thought the whole extra travel excuse was lame and this chart pretty much proves that. Look at some of the teams who traveled LESS than 2000 miles than the Canucks over the entire season. Nashville, Vegas, Winnipeg, San Jose, Tampa. 2000 miles isn't even ONE full coast to coast flight, basically 4 hours in the air,  so why didn't it effect the teams mentioned as hard as the Canucks?

I wouldn’t consider mileage as important as timezone changes. My personal experience is it’s far harder on your body in that respect. 

[GritGrinder]

9 minutes ago, GreyHatnDart said:

I wouldn’t consider mileage as important as timezone changes. My personal experience is it’s far harder on your body in that respect. 

SJ and Vegas are in the same time zone...so why didn’t they fold like a cheap suit like the Canucks did last year..?..Like I said..lame excuse...

[Tomatoes11]

12 hours ago, Rindiculous said:

Personally, I think Gillis was one of our best GM's of all time.  Drafting aside, he knew how to sign players, trade players for value, and take care of his players the best he could.  He was a analytical GM who analyzed every single part of the game.  I agree it was time to go after the Torts era, and he isn't the GM for a rebuilding team, but for a competitor, he knew how to get every inch out of his team and push them over the top.  He won our first two President's Trophies of all time.

Shhh, don’t let the Benning lovers see this. 5 years into the rebuild and we are still a team that loses 7 in a row is all Gillis fault apparently and not the GM running the team for the last 5 years. Lol

 

Apparently going for broke for our first and only cup wasn’t the right move and we should have hoarded draft picks when we were contenders. 

 

I agree though, if we won that SCF game 7 both him and Luongo would have had statues outside GM place rather than be the whipping boys for the Benning lovers.

 

 

[406in604]

54 minutes ago, GritGrinder said:

SJ and Vegas are in the same time zone...so why didn’t they fold like a cheap suit like the Canucks did last year..?..Like I said..lame excuse...

Fold like a cheap suit? 

[smokes]

Bring the sleep doctors back in, if I remember right, that was when they were mostly healthy

[GreyHatnDart]

2 hours ago, GritGrinder said:

SJ and Vegas are in the same time zone...so why didn’t they fold like a cheap suit like the Canucks did last year..?..Like I said..lame excuse...

Did they also have the injuries that we did? No? Oh. 

 

There’s lots out of context with your way of thinking imo. You can’t expect a rebuilding team, one of the younger teams in the league, to have our travel, our schedule, missing 2 top 6 scorers, 2 important centreman, and our number 1 dman AND our tandem goaltender to all be out at the same time and not lose games.

 

Take your job for example (whatever that may be). Say you have 20 guys doing a job, and 6 of them take leave at the same time, so you fill their positions with lesser trained, lesser skilled workers. Does production stay the same? Obviously not. 

 

Nothing I have said hasn’t been said on here numerous times around these forums. It’s pointless to be pissed off that we’re struggling right now. Did you have some kind of Stanley cup expectations for this team this season? I’d certainly hope not. 

 

 

[GreyHatnDart]

2 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Shhh, don’t let the Benning lovers see this. 5 years into the rebuild and we are still a team that loses 7 in a row is all Gillis fault apparently and not the GM running the team for the last 5 years. Lol

 

Apparently going for broke for our first and only cup wasn’t the right move and we should have hoarded draft picks when we were contenders. 

 

I agree though, if we won that SCF game 7 both him and Luongo would have had statues outside GM place rather than be the whipping boys for the Benning lovers.

 

 

LOL. 

 

In today’s NHL, you may notice the strongest teams year after year are typically ones that have drafted well. Obviously there’s trades and free agent signings to buff holes in their lineup, but for the most part, are drafted and developed internally. 

 

Gillis left us with literally nothing of value in our cupboard draftwise, save Horvat and so far this season, Hutton. Even acquiring the pick for Horvat was a massive f*ckup on the organizations part, seeing as how badly we screwed up with two outstanding goalies. 

 

Yes, Gillis was excellent at some things, but even contractually I wouldn’t praise him as a god. He handed out NMC’s and NTC’s like crazy, to the likes of players like Chris Higgins, to save a few dollars to get under the cap. While this was a good move at the time, in hindsight, it handcuffed future moves for Benning in that he couldn’t make appropriate or fair trades because of those contracts. Don’t even get me started on the 10 million dollar Sundin contract. 

 

Gillis also inherited a huge part of that contending core. He didn’t build that team from scratch, or even close. But sure okay, whatever fits your narrative. 

 

EDIT: I just realized I didn’t address the rest of your post. There wasn’t necessarily any need to “hoard” draft picks, but I don’t recall a single trade Gillis made involving picks that didn’t turn out to be a blunder. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. 

 

I’m not sure what “Benning-lovers” you mean, but Luongo has never been a whipping boy of mine, that’s for damn sure. Only time I can recall ever thinking anything negative about him was his public comments regarding Tim Thomas in that final. I think it served nothing other than to spark an already fired up Bruins squad, and had no business being spoken to the media. 

[Dungass]

9 hours ago, oldnews said:

The rest - is just plain luck.  Period.  Not on any medical or training staff, nothing to do with the team's systems, etc - simply b.s. bad luck.  Hard for people to accept that fact (hoping to gain some measure of control over this) - but 'it is what it is'.

Except for the fact there is a statistical trend.  If it was plain, bad rotten luck, our man games lost to injury would have fluctuated over the past four years.  Instead, we've lost more man games to injury than any other team by a wide margin.  Again, luck would have us moving up and down the chart.  

 

If there is a trend, then there's a cause.  What that cause is, I really don't know.  Like most things in life, and especially medicine, it's probably a combination of factors, as others here have suggested, including travel and the way certain players play.  

 

When I see the numbers in front of me, I don't want to ignore it and pretend we're just hard done by.  In fact, I think Jimbo and team have tried to address the issue with the change over in the medical team and bringing in the Beagle, Schaller, and Roussel.  But that clearly hasn't fixed the problem, so.... keep looking for solutions.  Don't pretend though, the problem doesn't exist.  

[406in604]

6 hours ago, smokes said:

Bring the sleep doctors back in, if I remember right, that was when they were mostly healthy

Oxygen beds and Fortnite 

[Tre Mac]

10 hours ago, GritGrinder said:

So then shouldn’t they have been used to games starting at 7pm EST since their previous games were at the same time..? Sorry bud but that’s a completely illogical argument.

lol, whatever man no need to be sorry.

[RogersTowell]

Other teams have been better at taking away our time and space than we have been at taking away their time and space.  Results in more time in the D zone, more taking hits along the board, more shots that need blocking.  Improve the system and more particularly the execution to reduce injuries.  You don't do a good job of taking away time and space by stopping pumping your legs and reaching with your stick.  Pump your legs and get caught up with the play.  Don't leave the point men so completely open all the time so they can wind up for the slapper.  This is mostly the wingers job and they do a terrible job of it lately.  When we send the puck back to the point, other teams don't leave a big gap that allows the D to T up a big shot.  We end up either trying to pass with little time and space or wristing the puck on net or sending it around the boards.  We give other teams too much time.

 

 

[oldnews]

6 hours ago, Dungass said:

Except for the fact there is a statistical trend.  If it was plain, bad rotten luck, our man games lost to injury would have fluctuated over the past four years.  Instead, we've lost more man games to injury than any other team by a wide margin.  Again, luck would have us moving up and down the chart.  

 

If there is a trend, then there's a cause.  What that cause is, I really don't know.  Like most things in life, and especially medicine, it's probably a combination of factors, as others here have suggested, including travel and the way certain players play.  

 

When I see the numbers in front of me, I don't want to ignore it and pretend we're just hard done by.  In fact, I think Jimbo and team have tried to address the issue with the change over in the medical team and bringing in the Beagle, Schaller, and Roussel.  But that clearly hasn't fixed the problem, so.... keep looking for solutions.  Don't pretend though, the problem doesn't exist.  

A statistical trend does not, however, indicate a controllable factor - and it doesn't even indicate a trend that will persist. 

It could in fact be 'luck' - bad luck - over an extended period - but I have no doubt that other uncontrollable factors - ie fatigue, travel and play, etc have some impact.

The idea however, that this can be hung on training or medical staff - is absurd wadr.

[Rob_Zepp]

On 11/22/2018 at 6:59 AM, Tre Mac said:

 

Just replying to a thread asking on opinions about why this team has so many injuries, not sure what you're problem is.  Tell you what, I'll put you on ignore and you can do the same for me - and we'll be cool.  Same with this guy:

 

 

Cheers

What?  Can't hear you....oh, due to that ignore thing.