Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

The Canucks Defense (Discussion)


Recommended Posts

So, I writing a comment about the Canucks LW problems and how there are some good LW/C prospects in the 1st round of the 2019 draft, and I keep thinking, what about the Canuck defense, what about the Canuck defense...………..well it is a mess...………...no kidding!

 

So, I thought I would bring this up for discussion, and say my piece , and hear from my fellow CDCers……….so please say your piece after I have said mine. I would love to consider it.

 

I would be the first admit that you can not go into a season without a veteran presence on your Defense, and it is probably wise to only add a rookie or 2, in any one single season. In saying that, 

I am very disappointed in the entire defensive group collectively, and I feel that major changes are in order for us to move forward, and upward, once the season ends...……..

 

It is not that Edler is not a decent player, or that Tanev can't defend, or that Hutton and Stecher have not improved, or even that Gudbranson hasn't raised his game, but collectively, the group can not play a game where we say...wow, we just would not let them in! Nor can I say that we ever say, well the defense won that one.....it just doesn't happen.

 

So, I am writing this season off, as an assessment and development year, and suggesting a complete revamping of the defense.....some of which was most likely going to happen anyways...……….

 

What I would like to see, is a UFA signing (Karlsson or Myers), a KHL signing (Tryamkin), and hopefully some advancement in our prospect pool...…….and moving out some Dmen not named 

Pouliot and MDZ, which I think will be dealt by not renewing their contracts or TDL deals, if anyone would actually take them. I would like to see Edler moved at the TDL, and re-signed this

summer and brought back as a real #3/4, and Tanev be moved at the draft. We need a change, a revamp, and to send a message that we are not satisfied with how we are playing.

 

In the end, I would like our Defense to get younger, more mobile, and more offensive. This I think may happen in some regard with the addition of Hughes this summer, but I believe we must go

further, as we need to change attitude as much as anything...…..

 

I am not saying that my opinions are the only way to go, but what I will say, is we need a change, with offense being focussed on from the back end......and now more that at any time, Benning has to start drafting defenseman in the earlier rounds, to build a strong defensive stable......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see D chasing players into the corner boards at the goal line, way too often.  The D and forwards just all collapse to the net when the other team touches the puck.  These guys are all professional hockey players.  And they are playing what they are taught.  And what they have been taught, clearly does not work.  If those doing the system design are unwilling to change, or, unable to adapt, I think you know where I am going with this...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok for our defense i see this as our only route. MDZ and Edler are UFA's this summer so you trade them for  picks or assets that you can get at the dealine ( ie. possibly 2 2nds for Edler and 1 2nd for MDZ realistically). This now will leave us with Hutton and Pouliot as the 2 remaining from roster LD. This would leave space for Juolevi and hopefully Hughes with the team next year and Tanev and Gudbranson as the veteran presence on the right side. I would also like to see Gagner moved this year for a pick or prospect for a team in the hunt for the cup. It's time for us to see what we have in Olli next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, xereau said:

I see D chasing players into the corner boards at the goal line, way too often.  The D and forwards just all collapse to the net when the other team touches the puck.  These guys are all professional hockey players.  And they are playing what they are taught.  And what they have been taught, clearly does not work.  If those doing the system design are unwilling to change, or, unable to adapt, I think you know where I am going with this...

Exactly. At what point do people start asking about the systems that Baumgartner is using?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keep Hutton.

OJ and Hughes.

Would also like to see Edler come back and essentially have those 4 for left D with maybe Hughes playing some right side.

Right sided D, I think Stetcher would be the only one I want back and even then wouldn't be terribly upset if he was moved..  

I think we are stuck with Gudbranson.

If OJ and Hughes are here unlikely to see Chatfield or Brisebois up as too many rookies.

I really wouldn't want to see a big name UFA here, may need to move some pieces around and see if can come up with someone complimentary.

I guess bringing Tanev back makes sense especially if Edler moves on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This league is humbling. Was just reading a thread about Thomas Chabot(OTT boards)..they get this kid at #18 OA!!!.

 

On pace for over 80 pts, at the age of 22..only 4 guys have done it: Orr, Potvin, Coffey & Leetch! Now that's a franchise that picked Karlsson at #15 OA!

(for laughs?)

Boston had THREE 2015 1st r picks(13, 14, 15) they spent on Debrusk, Zboril & Senyshen. Next picks are Barzal, Connor & Chabot! This should help all Canuck fans sleep well :^)

 

So D is such a crap-shoot at the draft. But where some franchises have hit multiple home runs(Nashville, Carolina), this area has probably been the franchise's most glaring, achilles heel. Which leaves us all praying at the altar for OJ & Hughes to pay out. We're due.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What we have:

Edler-Tanev

Hutton-Gudbranson

Stetcher-Del Zotto/Pouliot/Biega

 

What we need to be an average team:

 

Top-4 dman - Top-4 dman

Edler-Tanev (both are aging and will need replacing eventually)

Stetcher - Solid bottom pairing dman or PP specialist

 

What we need to be a good team: 

 

#1 defenseman in place of one of the top-4 dman above. 

 

We are a long way away from fixing this defense. By the time we find 2 good dmen, Edler and Tanev will be old and need replacing as well. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Exactly. At what point do people start asking about the systems that Baumgartner is using?

Last year, that's when I started complaining about Baumer.

 

I never really understood the loyalty hires of Clouts and Baumer because neither were particularly good pro's..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I believe the quality of the Canucks defence group requires extensive upgrading, I prefer to view the problems in our own end as a 5 man group issue. As a group, we give up way too much time and space to the opposition and this allows them to control the play in our end for extended periods of time. You see very few teams play this way in their own end as most teams take time and space away in an effort to force the play and create turnovers......I would like to see our team be aggressive in this manner as well. The other big issue in our end is the weak board play and winning board battles.Too many times the D chips the puck up the boards and our forwards fail to either chip the puck out or provide a quick outlet pass.....they need to be far stronger on the puck.

 

It would be generous in stating that we are not very good in our own end and killing penalties really illustrate the issues we have in this regard. Watch our PK be very passive in our end and do nothing other than attempt to take away passing/shooting lanes away. Teams that move the puck around quickly have a field day against our system. Watch the good PK teams and you will see them constantly being aggressive and force other teams to make the perfect plays under duress to be successful.

 

As I said earlier, we need personnel upgrades but I don't think we will see drastic improvements until we change the systems we want to play in our own end and get better play from our forwards in our end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When the team is on the upswing (likely starting next year) and they are perceived as a young and up coming team it will (or should) become a desirable destination for UFAs including defencemen.

 

If Hughes lives up to expectation, and they sign a UFA legit top 4 guy the D will be just fine.  

 

To this point it has not made sense to go out and spend big dollars on a top 4 d man.  Nor has it made sense to trade high picks to get one (would anyone be happy here if management had traded a first and two second rounders for a Hamonic calibre player?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

While I believe the quality of the Canucks defence group requires extensive upgrading, I prefer to view the problems in our own end as a 5 man group issue. As a group, we give up way too much time and space to the opposition and this allows them to control the play in our end for extended periods of time. You see very few teams play this way in their own end as most teams take time and space away in an effort to force the play and create turnovers......I would like to see our team be aggressive in this manner as well. The other big issue in our end is the weak board play and winning board battles.Too many times the D chips the puck up the boards and our forwards fail to either chip the puck out or provide a quick outlet pass.....they need to be far stronger on the puck.

 

It would be generous in stating that we are not very good in our own end and killing penalties really illustrate the issues we have in this regard. Watch our PK be very passive in our end and do nothing other than attempt to take away passing/shooting lanes away. Teams that move the puck around quickly have a field day against our system. Watch the good PK teams and you will see them constantly being aggressive and force other teams to make the perfect plays under duress to be successful.

 

As I said earlier, we need personnel upgrades but I don't think we will see drastic improvements until we change the systems we want to play in our own end and get better play from our forwards in our end.

You bring up some very good points and I would like to add to that. Our defense needs to have either of 2  main qualities to bring to the table: 1) Move the puck out of the zone efficiently before getting hemmed into the zone or 2) Be aggressive on the opposition and not allow them time and space to operate in the O'Zone. 

We have D men who do neither efficiently or consistently.

The third I would add is that we need veteran presence and lately Eddy is the only one that seems to able to do that. With Tanev or Guddy in the line up, the Dmen still struggled.

Next year we will have Hughes as our main puck mover and right now Eddy is our best option for a Veteran Dman who can manhandle the opposition in the Ozone.

Guddy is slow and not always aggressive and Tanev is not that aggressive and has been having trouble moving the puck out of the zone lately. The rest of the D are average at best and may not be around once the team improves in the very near future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Future D, IMO:

 

Hutton - Hughes (yep, I said it)

Juolevi - Tanev

Tryamkin - Stecher

Brisebois

Woo

 

Edler - 1st+

Gudbranson - 2nd+

Del Zotto - 3rd

Pouliot - 4th

 

And if Tryamkin decides not to come back that would easily be one of the smallest softest D-Core in the entire league. They might move the puck but they won't be moving any bodies. Even with Try that's a soft d-core overall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

So, I am writing this season off, as an assessment and development year, and suggesting a complete revamping of the defense.....some of which was most likely going to happen anyways...……….

 

What I would like to see, is a UFA signing (Karlsson or Myers), a KHL signing (Tryamkin), and hopefully some advancement in our prospect pool...…….and moving out some Dmen not named 

Pouliot and MDZ, which I think will be dealt by not renewing their contracts or TDL deals, if anyone would actually take them. I would like to see Edler moved at the TDL, and re-signed this

summer and brought back as a real #3/4, and Tanev be moved at the draft. We need a change, a revamp, and to send a message that we are not satisfied with how we are playing.

There are a lot of games to play. And we were competitive early. Much of what was our demise? 

 

Was having as many as 8 regulars out. Including on D.  And even then, we went a game or three before the wheels fell off. We probably have at least a run left in us? Once everyone is back...

 

But being completely fair to your point.  

 

> Our defence does deserve & needs more skill, acceleration with the puck from the back end. Ankle and lane breakers. Not just dangles. I don't think even Edler puts people in casts with his shot anymore. Does anyone on our D routinely beat their man? Send players screaming out of the way? Our top D man, Hutton, is on pace for 30 points. There are teams with more than one D approaching the 30 point level already. No weapons to speak of on D us Canucks. It is not adequate as it is, no. Mot at all. 

> Then a second time being fair; arguably our two best D at handing the puck? Are rookies that have not arrived yet. Juolevi & Hughes.

 

Gudbrandson was highly serviceable playing with Brian Campbell? A guy to handle & move the puck so Guddy could concentrate on clearing bodies. Just as an example. Edler, although admittedly starting to get grey in tooth? Was also better when he played with a puck mover like Ehrhoff.  Tanev is good regardless of whether he plays with a puck mover. Brisbois similarly looks as he will be a good 4D someday soon. Just don't expect any offense from his pairing unless you have him, like Tanev, again with a PMD.  It will be easier to say this if Tryamkin returns, but there are some parts where not really any perfection to speak of.

 

My point is yes, it could be considered bad. But will look better as Juolevi & Hughes arrive. Quinn Hughes in particular looks like he will be a game breaker. A guy who single handily will haul the puck ice. Smash neutral zone traps to gain the zone. And jump into lanes with the puck offensively.  

 

My next wish list guy on D is the next guy with a howitzer.  How good would it be to have Al MacInnes in his prime? Shea Weber... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking at who we have, I'd have to say that:

MDZ, Poulliott HAVE to go

Edler should

Stetch (maybe)

Looking at the potential UFA crop, well we all know Karlsson is the grand prize. But he most likely will want long term, and will cost mega $$$. Considering we will have some of our top forwards looking for raises by then, I really don't think we can afford the likely $10M+ contract he will want. Next is Tyler Myers; interesting thought there. If he would be willing to stay in the $6M area, and not a 6 year+ contract, I think he would be an attractive target.

 

MDZ = 3rd round, Poulliott = 4th/5th round. Edler = 2nd round + halfway decent prospect. Stetch (if) = 3rd/4th round

 

Just hypothetical then, next year:

Hughes - Myers

Hutton - Tanev

Joulevi/McEneny - Gudbranson

 

Year after should see Joulevi nail down his spot, with McEneny and Brisebois providing the 7-8 D man depth

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Father Ryan said:

Looking at who we have, I'd have to say that:

MDZ, Poulliott HAVE to go

Edler should

Stetch (maybe)

Looking at the potential UFA crop, well we all know Karlsson is the grand prize. But he most likely will want long term, and will cost mega $$$. Considering we will have some of our top forwards looking for raises by then, I really don't think we can afford the likely $10M+ contract he will want. Next is Tyler Myers; interesting thought there. If he would be willing to stay in the $6M area, and not a 6 year+ contract, I think he would be an attractive target.

 

MDZ = 3rd round, Poulliott = 4th/5th round. Edler = 2nd round + halfway decent prospect. Stetch (if) = 3rd/4th round

 

Just hypothetical then, next year:

Hughes - Myers

Hutton - Tanev

Joulevi/McEneny - Gudbranson

 

Year after should see Joulevi nail down his spot, with McEneny and Brisebois providing the 7-8 D man depth

Hutton is neither great offensively or defensively and I don't think he supplants Edler either with any kind of Veteran presence or defensive skill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Duodenum said:

What we have:

Edler-Tanev

Hutton-Gudbranson

Stetcher-Del Zotto/Pouliot/Biega

 

What we need to be an average team:

 

Top-4 dman - Top-4 dman

Edler-Tanev (both are aging and will need replacing eventually)

Stetcher - Solid bottom pairing dman or PP specialist

 

What we need to be a good team: 

 

#1 defenseman in place of one of the top-4 dman above. 

 

We are a long way away from fixing this defense. By the team we find 2 good dmen, Edler and Tanev will be old and need replacing as well. 

Realistically we have 1 of those top-4 dman, potentially even #1 in Hughes. Time will tell. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no doubt that our defense is a problem, but within the problem, what 2 defensemen are our biggest concerns?

I would say, without hesitation, that it is MDZ and Pouliot...….both UFA's at the end of the year...…….

Now, who were our biggest problem defensemen last year? And again, it was MDZ, Pouliot and Hutton, who has cleaned up his act considerably

And again, both MDZ and Pouliot are on their way out......by the very least the end of the season.....

Now, if for some reason, Benning Re-signs either one of them, then you will see me pissed, but I am just biding my time until the end of the year, for now.

 

I would like to see Benning bring up all 4 of our Current LHD prospects (Juolevi, Sautner, McEneny, and Brisebois) and platoon them, a couple games at a time

on our bottom 6, and have Benning not worry about the trivial value that might possibly be given at the TDL for either...…(God knows who would take them)

But with both Juolevi and Hughes supposedly coming on board next year, this may be the only time, to actually see them, although not an ideal time, but I think

that may take a couple of years to sort out, so the time may as well be now (now being in the next month or so)

 

So, what are the solutions to this years dilemma?  Well......

 

A.) Sign Tryamkin? Well, that makes the Right side a little more solid, no doubt, no guarantee he coming

B.) Bring in Hughes and Juolevi? Well, dressing 2 rookies on the left side, may be a little desperate, but it is a possibility

C.) Re-sign Edler....well that is probably a given at this point

D.) Sign lesser free agents to 4 year contracts.....they won't sign for free! But it depends on who and how much

E.) Sign high UFA's to man our starting Defense...watch out cap!!!!

F.) Trade for Dmen...….costly and flies in the face of our rebuild.....we would set back our rebuild further

G.) Resurrect waiver wire folly to and try and make wine out of water

 

I ask, what is the answer, really? What can happen to actually improve our defence, short term, that will not affect us long term...…..

 

It is the 11 million dollar question!

 

or is it

 

Suffer, and stay the course, and continue to draft...…..?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Offer sheet slater koekoe from Tampa.  Former 1 st round pick and cooper likes veterans not you young D. Has fallen out of favor with cooper as well..  my sons favorite team is Tampa so have watched him play a bunch and he can move the puck and has good instincts. Shouldn’t take much as Tampa is up against the cap..  currently on one year 875 deal.  Would be a great pick up for cheap (minus draft pick depending on offer). He could help speed the process by not waiting for draft picks to develop

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...