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Focus has to be on Defense... and someone to pair with Hughes


*Buzzsaw*

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It's great to see the progress the team is making... definitely makes going to a game or watching a special experience.

 

We can all see the offensive potential of the Canucks making a giant leap forward, but the defense on the other hand is still a work in progress... and in some ways, in decline.

 

Right now Canucks have two 'good' pairs... Edler/Tanev are our 1/2, and Guddy/Hutton are our 3/4.  Stecher tries hard, and can move the puck and skate, but he has problems with bigger forwards, and can't score.. although he does add helpers.  Pouliot is a big question mark.  He has better physicality than Stecher, but poor decision making... could end up better than Stecher, but he could end up worse.  Biega, bless his Bulldog heart, is a #7 and Del Zotto is a #8.

 

Edler will likely be gone in 2-3 years.  Tanev in 2-5.  (depending on if he becomes chronically injury prone)  That leaves Guddy/Hutton, neither whom are 1/2's.

 

Essentially the Canucks need to develop FOUR new defensemen over the next 2-4 years... two complete pairs.  And they need to find a 1/2.

 

Who are the prospects:

 

Quinn Hughes:

 

With the likely arrival of Hughes either at the end of the season or next year, we should see a real offensive upgrade on the D... potentially the same effect Pettersson has had on the forward lines...  but likely not too much of a defensive upgrade.  Hughes is definitely elite offensively, extra-ordinary skating and acceleration, awesome puck handling, can likely QB the PP, but in the defensive end of the rink will have problems dealing with big physical forwards who can carry the puck, gain possession in the O-Zone and start to cycle.  Essentially his development arc is likely to be a better skating, but less physical version of PK Subban.  Ideally Hughes needs to be matched with a big strong stay at home defenseman who can provide the physicality.  Potential to be a #1 if paired properly.  Will likely start as one of the 5/6, with a place on the #2 PP.  Could move up fast.  Needs to be sheltered from predatory heavy forwards who could end his career early.

 

Olli Juolevi:

 

Question mark with his injuries... but likely will recover... many other players have had long careers after similar surgeries.   However, the injuries may have lowered his top end potential from #2 to #3.  At the very least, he will probably need an extended development period in Utica.... probably at least half of next year's season.  The good news is a lot of his skills are related to his hockey IQ and decision making... which is still there.  Potential to be an excellent #3 or a decent #2.  Good size, 6' 3", 205 lbs, but not dominant physically.  Will start in Utica next year.

 

Jett Woo:

 

Still only 18, but showing excellent potential.  Not a dominant sized player, but is good size and growing at 6' and 203 lbs and uses his physical strengths well.  Has an edge... which will give bonuses in the playoffs.  Improved scoring this year... not elite, but a solid contributor.  Probably should have a year to develop in Utica... but could have some games with the Canucks if they unload Del Zotto and one of the other D.  Odds are he will start in Utica next year.

 

Nikita Tryamkin:

 

The big question.  Would be playing in at least the #5 position if he was still with the Canucks... maybe #4 were it not for his mis-handling by Willie D, as well as his own personal independent thinking.  Overwhelmingly dominant physically.  Frightening to play against, even for large opposing forwards.  Makes any forward with an eye to a rush down the left boards think twice.  Capable of putting players out of the game with one hit.  Solves all Canuck's issues with intimidation against their skilled forwards with one signing.  Great reach, can clear the net front with ease.  Surprisingly mobile... a good skater for his size... reminds me of Larry 'Big Bird' Robinson with his ability to come around his net, gain speed and carry the puck up through the neutral zone and into the O-Zone.  Not particularly soft hands... not a real goal scorer, but decent passer.  Big weakness... doesn't turn well if the opposing forward gets by him.  But he can learn from experience and with his reach make sure that doesn't happen often.  Will likely play better in the smaller N American arenas than the European ones.  Potential to be a #2 if paired with Hughes.  Ready to start in the 3/4 or 5/6 now.

 

The Rest:  Don't really consider any of the other Defensive prospects as likely to stick.  Jack Rathbone has skill, but not better than Hughes... and with Hughes a lock to make the team, don't need another smurf.  Brisbois is a little light for his height... and not showing enough potential to be anything more than a #6.  Brassard likely a 7/8, Utenen a long shot.

 

From my perspective, the team has the potential to replace the current 5/6 with Hughes/Tryamkin... and that should be Benning's #1 priority this off season.  Do whatever it takes to get the big Russian over here from the KHL.   Make deals, pay his salary, offer players, get the job done.

 

We are almost certain to see Quinn Hughes make the team from training camp... maybe he will get 10 games at the end of this season.  Almost certainly he has the skills to start in the NHL.  But for his development to go ahead properly, he needs to have a big physical defenseman to as a partner.  That of course, could be Edler, or even Gudbranson, but preferably those players stay with their existing partners.  It would be much better to see him start off with Nikita Tryamkin as his partner... give them the opportunity to grow together without the pressure of Hughes being on the 1/2 pair in his first season.

 

Benning needs to get the Tryamkin deal done.  All logic points to the combination of the big physical Russian and the elite creative American as being the next potential dominant defensive pair in the league.

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You may be underselling our D and D prospects @*Buzzsaw*

 

Not that we're out of this world. Or play off hardened and dangerous. We are playing hard. We are playing competitively as a D crew. 

 

We are missing the adrenaline lifting speed and skill of a pure PMD. Which appears solidly in the rear view mirror approaching in Hughes. And Rathbone is a decent candidate as well. That guy who slash to retrieve loose pucks faster than others would be under pressure. Then lug it out without effort?  Will take a lot of the battle and stress of what is otherwise not a bad crew in our end. Pouliot and Stecher are plausible as 3rd pair D.  

 

That same PMD should suddenly unleash breakouts and odd man rushes that will suddenly see productivity from guys like Gaudette, Goldobin, Motte & Virtanen. Could easily add 15 or 20 goals to the bottom of our line up. And even easier achieve 20 extra goals from Pettersson, Bo & Brock, when you consider being able to break in from the point, both 5 on 5 & on the PP. 40 extra goals, a whole lot of speeding up &. And attacking in the other end can make the defensive effort of many D seem better?

 

Fingers crossed, yes re-adding Tryamkin would then give us 2, including Guddy, guys who can seriously clear the net. And both can skate.  I believe you are under rating Brisbois. He's 6'3'' and training, playing with pro's. Has put on twenty lbs since being drafted. And will probably be 210 lbs in 2 years. He can also skate.  Teams like Tampa routinely turns 6'3'' & 6'5'' guys who can skate, teach them how to use their stick, break up plays & make productive NHL'ers of them. Not that I am predicting he will be an all star, or horse on a second pair.  But all you need from a 3rd round pick is a steady body. If he spends a few years on our 3rd pair, I'll be happy!

 

Rathbone can flat out hammer the puck! And fly, has some agility beating checks as well. Still just 19 and having a killer NCAA season as a difference maker for his team at Harvard. He's a bigger version of Grzylcyk in Boston. Or Torey Krug??  

 

Yes adding Erik Karlsson or Tyler Myers next off season would be a huge implant.  But we are not a dead horse to be flogged. We're an improving defensive team. Just need to keep drafting guys like Woo, Brisebois, Rathbone, Tryamkin in rounds 2 through 4. So there are enough the % ages round up instead of down. 

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You make some solid points. 

I'm here strictly to talk about Jett though. He may not be a huge person, but the kid is an absolute truck. He rarely loses battles down low and if he catches anyone with their head down, he's going to run them over. Also - if Jett doesn't make the Canucks next year he is ineligible to be sent to Utica. Due to the NHL - CHL agreement he has to return to Moose Jaw.

While I agree with your point that he's showing great potential now, I think Jett could be ready or very close to next season. His stat line isn't awful but we have a Matt Dumba lite in Jett Woo. 50 point seasons may be a stretch, he could and probably will be a 30-40 point d-man with an old school physical side.

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I totally agree with a draft heavy defense pool,I feel it will help get the Canucks more of a chance to find a defense man of epic skills,you know that NORRIS TROPHY WINNING HORSE OF A DEFENSE MAN WHO SEEMS TO BE OUT ON THE ICE FOREVER.

A crusher,a passer,a boomimg shot from the point,and the guy who brings us closer and brings us over the edge, to our first Stanley Cup.

 

YES,PLEASE!

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I hope the Canucks put another offensively talented d-man with Hughes and adopt a 5 man attack when he and his partner are on the ice.  In order for that to be successful though Demko will need to be solid in net to stop the inevitable odd man return rushes that type of attack sometimes allows the opposing team.

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Edler is a no 2 d man

Tanev is a no 3 d man 

Hutton is a no 4/5 d man 

Guddy is a no 5 d man 

stetcher is a no 5 d man

poluiot/MDZ/Biega are no 7 d men

 

so

 

Edler—-

Hutton - Tanev

—-  Stetcher or Guddy 

nect year? 

Edler Tanev

Hutton Stetcher 

Hughes Guddy 

 

thats a bit stronger then this year

i really feel Guddy needs to be 3rd pair abs he may match well with Hughes (size, stay st home, protection)

 

we we need a true no 1 D man and then ppl slide into the right place 

 

This summer:

To VAN

Doughty 

 

To LA

hutton

stetcher 

2020 1st, 2nd 

Lind 

 

Elder Doughty

hughes Tanev

Juolevi Guddy  

 

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2 hours ago, Jaku said:

You make some solid points. 

I'm here strictly to talk about Jett though. He may not be a huge person, but the kid is an absolute truck. He rarely loses battles down low and if he catches anyone with their head down, he's going to run them over. Also - if Jett doesn't make the Canucks next year he is ineligible to be sent to Utica. Due to the NHL - CHL agreement he has to return to Moose Jaw.

While I agree with your point that he's showing great potential now, I think Jett could be ready or very close to next season. His stat line isn't awful but we have a Matt Dumba lite in Jett Woo. 50 point seasons may be a stretch, he could and probably will be a 30-40 point d-man with an old school physical side.

I would not disagree with your assessment of Jett Woo's physicality... I consider him to be someone in the model of Kevin Bieksa...  not the biggest guy, but extremely strong on his feet.  And his willingness to mix it up with just about anyone is also a characteristic he shares with Kevin.

 

But I do not think he is a #1 or #2 D...  he will be a solid contributor, but likely in the middle pair.

 

I didn't realize he was required to stay in the CHL for another year... that is too bad, because I think what he needs is a year in the AHL.  Playing in the NHL in a low minute role in the 5/6 or sitting on the bench as #7 is not what he needs and I think staying in the CHL would mean he would not be challenged as much as would be best for his development.

 

 

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i think with the D we have coming we will be ok. If Hughes is even close to what he's projected to be and joulevi becomes even a 3-4 pairing guy, plus tanev edler and guddy that's a pretty solid top 5. Then you're left with Hutton, pouliot  stetcher, biega, and that doesn't even include woo, rathbone, utonen, and many more in the pipe. They won't all make it, but they won't all need to. Sure it'd be nice to have the second coming of Chris pronger, but I wouldn't feel uncomfortable with a top 6 of what we'll have to work with 

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13 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

I would not disagree with your assessment of Jett Woo's physicality... I consider him to be someone in the model of Kevin Bieksa...  not the biggest guy, but extremely strong on his feet.  And his willingness to mix it up with just about anyone is also a characteristic he shares with Kevin.

 

But I do not think he is a #1 or #2 D...  he will be a solid contributor, but likely in the middle pair.

 

I didn't realize he was required to stay in the CHL for another year... that is too bad, because I think what he needs is a year in the AHL.  Playing in the NHL in a low minute role in the 5/6 or sitting on the bench as #7 is not what he needs and I think staying in the CHL would mean he would not be challenged as much as would be best for his development.

 

 

Send him to europe

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30 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

Edler is a no 2 d man

Tanev is a no 3 d man 

Hutton is a no 4/5 d man 

Guddy is a no 5 d man 

stetcher is a no 5 d man

poluiot/MDZ/Biega are no 7 d men

 

so

 

Edler—-

Hutton - Tanev

—-  Stetcher or Guddy 

nect year? 

Edler Tanev

Hutton Stetcher 

Hughes Guddy 

 

thats a bit stronger then this year

i really feel Guddy needs to be 3rd pair abs he may match well with Hughes (size, stay st home, protection)

 

we we need a true no 1 D man and then ppl slide into the right place 

 

This summer:

To VAN

Doughty 

 

To LA

hutton

stetcher 

2020 1st, 2nd 

Lind 

 

Elder Doughty

hughes Tanev

Juolevi Guddy  

 

Never happen.

 

For one... LA won't willingly trade Doughty... they will make every effort to sign him.

 

For two, if for some reason Doughty forced a trade, he would ask for one to a contender... Canucks are not there yet.

 

For three, what you are offering from Van would be laughed at.

 

Finally if Vancouver ever managed to sign Doughty, it would cost them $11 Million and blow the CAP to pieces when Pettersson, Boeser and Hughes have to be signed.  We'd end up losing one or two of them.

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Goood point op.defininely a position that needs strength,(ballls).do we haven’t? Some nights yes but we need more concistency from the  blue line Hughes and who else cuz Hughes alone,no matter how goood he is isn gonna be enough that why talk of trading Edler is nonesense

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Long term D if everything works out

 

Juolevi - Woo

Hughes - Gudbranson

Rathbone - Tryamkin

Brisebois - Chatfield

Stecher

 

Rathbone may have a longer path, but looks promising. Brisebois may have his spot until he is ready or maybe we hang onto Hutton. Tryamkin is questionable if he will return, so Chatfield may take his spot or maybe Stecher hangs on to it. Maybe even keep Tanev if healthy. I have Stecher as an extra because he seems like he could take on a Biega type role later in his career where he would be ready to go whenever he's called upon, but I also think he's the type of guy that would fit the bottom pairing on a team with a very strong top 4 like how Nashville runs their defense.

 

This is just what we currently have and we could still look towards future draft picks and maybe a signing or two because not all prospects will reach their potential.

 

If we want to go with a young D group earlier though, then I personally believe we need some stability in net. So hopefully Ian Clark continues his magic with Markstrom and Demko develops as planned and takes over. I still feel that if we want to ensure stability in goal and allow a younger group to get in earlier then we should look into signing Bobrovsky if the cap numbers work out.

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You guys forget that  free agency exists. 

Its entirely possible that we don't need all our rookies to pan out to help Hughes on the back end, rather, we fill the holes in free agency.

Edit: 

I just realized, Erik Karlsson is going to be a UFA this year.

Karlsson + Hughes anyone?

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On 12/30/2018 at 10:46 PM, Sandro17 said:

You guys forget that  free agency exists. 

Its entirely possible that we don't need all our rookies to pan out to help Hughes on the back end, rather, we fill the holes in free agency.

Edit: 

I just realized, Erik Karlsson is going to be a UFA this year.

Karlsson + Hughes anyone?

I would pass on Karlsson.

Please draft and develop.

  maybe Tyler Myers I would take if we could get him. no 11 million dollar players please we will have to sign Boeser and Petey soon enough

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free agency, trades, drafting ... roster building never stops. it's fluid. the potential problem tlexists now, but might not by july 10th when we've been through another half season, trade deadline, draft, and free agency. 

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On 12/30/2018 at 9:10 PM, PrinceGeorgeGoon said:

We also have to think about another expansion team and who to protect. Hopefully when we land the #12 pick this year we take the BPA and it's a stud defence prospect. 

Yeah that's been bothering me, expansion teams should not be allowed to cherry pick as much as that and have a killer team and be ahead of the average team that has to build and build and build which pisses me off but i digress, so by that time when seattle comes calling it'd make sense to have Tryamkin come in after that and have hughes, ollie, and 1 other so we have our 2 top pairings protected. 

 

Oh yeah, i just moved to PG a month ago now...  gawd i didn't miss the snow all these years 

 

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11 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Yeah that's been bothering me, expansion teams should not be allowed to cherry pick as much as that and have a killer team and be ahead of the average team that has to build and build and build which pisses me off but i digress, so by that time when seattle comes calling it'd make sense to have Tryamkin come in after that and have hughes, ollie, and 1 other so we have our 2 top pairings protected. 

 

Oh yeah, i just moved to PG a month ago now...  gawd i didn't miss the snow all these years 

 

Alcohol will get you through the winters up there.  :emot-parrot:

Our future D looks good.  I think JB goes after EK July .1st. 

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Alcohol will get you through the winters up there.  :emot-parrot:

Our future D looks good.  I think JB goes after EK July .1st. 

Well alcohol and i dont get along so 420 it is lol

Ummm i think signing EK would be a huge mistake, unless the cap goes to 100 mil+ because as another poster mentioned, we still need to sign Boes and Pete and that won't be cheap.

 

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