Houston, we have a disconnect

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, Silky mitts said:

Clean hit or not or whatever you always always back up your star player. Especially your rookie, lack of a response just declares open season on ep, teams are not scared to hurt this guy.  Anytime he is touched you send a MESSAGE. Look at even today Keller was hit and OEL and galchenyuk no hesitation jumped the guy right away, these aren’t even goons or known fighters , it’s called having your teammates back which the team has not shown . Disappointing.

 

 

I just can't believe this team has come to a point where post game, the media questions a play and our guys adjudicate whether the play was dirty, had bad intent, or was an accident. 

 

Who the eff cares? 

 

Your rookie star is laying on the ice. The natural reaction would be to pummel whoever is beside him. 

 

This whole trying to make sense of the play watching post game videos reeks of either cowardice or an unwillingness to stick up for a team mate. 

 

Maybe the blood thirsty fan base and the public outrage is further causing an issue and having a negative effect where the players dont want to feel like goons who dance at the whims of the fans. 

 

[TheRealistOptimist]

EP himself said it wasn't a dirty play. That should be the end of it. 

 

Would we love to have a player like Tom Wilson on our team...of course but he's pretty rare this days. 

 

We still need "skill" players on this team as you can see not just "brawn", once Petey went out we weren't very good. If you can get big guys with skill great but don't force the issue. We've been doing fine without an enforcer for the majority of the season.

 

Also, can you believe those soft a** Winnipeg Jets didn't destroy Sidney Crosby for injuring Ehlers today...no reaction whatsoever. Doesn't matter the context of the play, he directly injured one of their Star players. Man that team needs to give their head a shake and figure it out or else guys are going to be taking runs at all their players. When the play is innocent and doesn't warrant retaliation because there was no intent to injure, than 9 times out of 10 there won't be retaliation. It doesn't matter how tough the team is.

[canucksnihilist]

14 hours ago, Zach Parise said:

In canucks players eyes, that wasnt "dirty" to them, "dirty" is like a cheap shot to stetcher to the head, is what "dirty" looks like in their eyes.

What does “target” look like in their eyes?

[smokes]

16 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I purposely stayed away from the discussion last night over Petey's 2nd injury of the year to try to get some perspective on whats going on with this team.

 

On the one hand, there's no doubt that this team is a harder opponent to play against than its been in years with the additions of Beagle and Roussel, and Bo taking big strides.

 

On the other, there's a real perception of the team being "unwilling" to engage physically in the sense of retaliation or protection. Travis Green clearly doesn't think thats a problem.

 

So in an attempt to add something new to the discussion, Ill put this out there: what are we as a fan base missing? what is it that we don't understand thats leading to so many of us feeling like the team is abandoning guys like Petey and Baer? why is there a disconnect here between what so many of us want to see and what Green's plan is? 

 

 

It's always been the Canucks way though. Take the high road. Remember how much abuse the Sedins took? It was always take the high road and hope for a PP instead of a scrum. We don't need to protect our stars per se as much as we need agitators to ruffle up their stars. We need a modern day Cook, Ruutu, Burrows or a Kesler (loudmouth ability) who can get under the other star's skin.

[Drop Em]

40 minutes ago, smokes said:

It's always been the Canucks way though. Take the high road. Remember how much abuse the Sedins took? It was always take the high road and hope for a PP instead of a scrum. We don't need to protect our stars per se as much as we need agitators to ruffle up their stars. We need a modern day Cook, Ruutu, Burrows or a Kesler (loudmouth ability) who can get under the other star's skin.

Did you ever think that one of the reasons why star players like the Sedins got targeted was BECAUSE we had those agitators? The other team knew that for the most part, those guys weren't going to back up all of their talk/agitating by dropping the gloves, so they'd target the Sedins because they were the stars and knew they were more valuable to the team. And they also knew that they had pretty much nobody to stick up for them and they wouldn't stick up for themselves, so they were the ones who were easy targets.

 

And we have Roussel who is similar to Burrows. Roussel is tougher and Burrows had better offensive instincts, but they both can't/couldn't keep their mouths shut and use/used that to try and antagonize the opposition. We need guys who are going to let the other team know that if our stars get targeted and abused, that the same thing will happen to their stars.....and more importantly we need guys who will and can follow through with it and not just talk about it.

[MikeyBoy44]

I posted on a thread earlier that this might be due to the Canucks bad rep in the Kes,Burr amd Bieksa days. Perhaps what we are seeing is a call from management saying to keep it toned down to rebuild it's reputation? Probably way off, but it's a theory.

[EdgarM]

8 hours ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

EP himself said it wasn't a dirty play. That should be the end of it. 

 

Would we love to have a player like Tom Wilson on our team...of course but he's pretty rare this days. 

 

We still need "skill" players on this team as you can see not just "brawn", once Petey went out we weren't very good. If you can get big guys with skill great but don't force the issue. We've been doing fine without an enforcer for the majority of the season.

 

Also, can you believe those soft a** Winnipeg Jets didn't destroy Sidney Crosby for injuring Ehlers today...no reaction whatsoever. Doesn't matter the context of the play, he directly injured one of their Star players. Man that team needs to give their head a shake and figure it out or else guys are going to be taking runs at all their players. When the play is innocent and doesn't warrant retaliation because there was no intent to injure, than 9 times out of 10 there won't be retaliation. It doesn't matter how tough the team is.

As you can see, the "skill" players are not going to stay in the line up unless we have some "brawn" in the line up.

Isn't Byfuglien out of the Winnipeg line up with injury? 

[EdgarM]

7 hours ago, smokes said:

It's always been the Canucks way though. Take the high road. Remember how much abuse the Sedins took? It was always take the high road and hope for a PP instead of a scrum. We don't need to protect our stars per se as much as we need agitators to ruffle up their stars. We need a modern day Cook, Ruutu, Burrows or a Kesler (loudmouth ability) who can get under the other star's skin.

This DID NOT WORK during the 2011 playoffs. We were embarrassed and the PP went something like 3/32.

[JM_]

8 hours ago, smokes said:

It's always been the Canucks way though. Take the high road. Remember how much abuse the Sedins took? It was always take the high road and hope for a PP instead of a scrum. We don't need to protect our stars per se as much as we need agitators to ruffle up their stars. We need a modern day Cook, Ruutu, Burrows or a Kesler (loudmouth ability) who can get under the other star's skin.

that is what Roussel does imo, pretty effectively most of the time, but without the violence inflicted like Cooke did later in his career. 

[JM_]

6 hours ago, MikeyBoy44 said:

I posted on a thread earlier that this might be due to the Canucks bad rep in the Kes,Burr amd Bieksa days. Perhaps what we are seeing is a call from management saying to keep it toned down to rebuild it's reputation? Probably way off, but it's a theory.

its an idea tho. There's clearly an effort from this management group to do things a certain way. You don't see any whining in the media by Benning, ever. 

[JM_]

16 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

In a nutshell, I think it's twofold.

 

I think the team wants to wipe the slate clean, start fresh and establish an identity that sheds itself of the past baggage.  The Burr/Kes/Rome/Torres/Lappy image of being rats and scoundrels.  The infusion of youth, skill and speed and a new direction.

 

I also feel they don't want to be seen as 'soft' and whining and complaining is part of that.  They don't do much of that and I'm proud that they don't.  However, there is another element to being soft and that's being the good boys of the league who don't mix it up.  The Sedins got a bad rap for not engaging and so it's a double edged sword.

 

I think they're trying, hard, to just play a good, clean game.  Unfortunately, in league of inconsistency and constant error, there's hardly any payoff or reward for being "good".  Sure, two points on the board is the focus but sometimes it's just got to stray from the gameplan to stand your ground.  We stayed the course last game but still lost.  I'd hoped that they'd be slamming them into the boards every chance they got.  Creating chaos in the crease, etc.  "Mixing it up" without "fighting".

I do think thats part of it for sure. 

 

The league inconsistency is frustrating, but thats been there since forever. Thats why you need to police the game yourselves at times. Maybe what some of us are perceiving as unwillingness to engage at times is a directive and buy-in by the guys to just play to win but unfortunately it comes off as letting teams off the hook for dirtbag plays.

 

In this latest thing with EP, it does look like two baby deers getting tangled up and there clearly is no intent to injure (unlike the Floria game), but regardless I'd like players to have it in the back of their mind that contact like that on EP or Boeser means they'd better keep their heads up for the rest of the game, and I don't think this team sends that message often enough. 

 

 

 

 

 

[stawns]

13 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I do think thats part of it for sure. 

 

The league inconsistency is frustrating, but thats been there since forever. Thats why you need to police the game yourselves at times. Maybe what some of us are perceiving as unwillingness to engage at times is a directive and buy-in by the guys to just play to win but unfortunately it comes off as letting teams off the hook for dirtbag plays.

 

In this latest thing with EP, it does look like two baby deers getting tangled up and there clearly is no intent to injure (unlike the Floria game), but regardless I'd like players to have it in the back of their mind that contact like that on EP or Boeser means they'd better keep their heads up for the rest of the game, and I don't think this team sends that message often enough. 

 

 

 

 

 

I think they don't care what people outside the dressing room think because they are a tight, cohesive group who have bought into the program top to bottom.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

I think they don't care what people outside the dressing room think because they are a tight, cohesive group who have bought into the program top to bottom.

no doubt. Maybe the program needs a tweak now and then to protect your stars though? 

[EdgarM]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

no doubt. Maybe the program needs a tweak now and then to protect your stars though? 

We probably need another "Prust"  demotion but we are just too low on the depth chart for team toughness. I am sure JB is going to address this when he is given the chance and Schaller is as good as gone when JB is able to off load him to someone.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

no doubt. Maybe the program needs a tweak now and then to protect your stars though? 

Just not the way the team is built.  I think Benning sees the future of the league, which is quickly moving away from hits and frontier justice, and he and TG are trying to get ahead of that game and get the kids in that mind set now

[EdgarM]

26 minutes ago, stawns said:

Just not the way the team is built.  I think Benning sees the future of the league, which is quickly moving away from hits and frontier justice, and he and TG are trying to get ahead of that game and get the kids in that mind set now

Several shots to both Hank and Danny's heads over the years say this "is quickly moving away from hits and frontier justice" is not very accurate. The "Goons" are gone but the "Cheap shot artists" have moved right in.

[TheRealistOptimist]

3 hours ago, EdgarM said:

As you can see, the "skill" players are not going to stay in the line up unless we have some "brawn" in the line up.

Isn't Byfuglien out of the Winnipeg line up with injury? 

If your saying the rest of Winnipeg is soft and only Byfuglien can prevent this type of stuff. Then there’s only a handful of players in the league that can prevent runs on their “Star players”.

 

I thought it wasn’t about having 1 particular player, it was about a team mentality of sticking up for your teammates? 

 

PS. It wouldn’t of mattered it Byfuglien was in the lineup or not, nothing would’ve changed on that Crosby, Ehlers play.

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

If your saying the rest of Winnipeg is soft and only Byfuglien can prevent this type of stuff. Then there’s only a handful of players in the league that can prevent runs on their “Star players”.

 

I thought it wasn’t about having 1 particular player, it was about a team mentality of sticking up for your teammates? 

 

PS. It wouldn’t of mattered it Byfuglien was in the lineup or not, nothing would’ve changed on that Crosby, Ehlers play.

No not saying that but I bet they play a lot tougher when he is in the line up and the opposition is not so inclined to take liberties. Nature of the beast.

[TheRealistOptimist]

I agree it definitely helps/adds to their toughness when he's in the lineup