The Captaincy question

[ey40]

My bet will be on Bo. 

I think if Pettersson is going to miss a few games, Bo is the guy I expect to step up and show to management "Give me the "C" coz I am the guy who will put this team on my back to battle"!  

[theo5789]

1 minute ago, EdgarM said:

How about GWG's? I want a guy who will win at all costs and finds a way to lead his team to victory. EP has been doing this and he is still a Rookie, I can only imagine what he can do when he gets as much experience as Bo has. Its not about the points its about the fight in the player and right now EP is displaying this by doing everything in his power to win. Have you seen his effort almost EVERY SHIFT? This kid is the real deal and a guy I want to lead this team to a Cup without a doubt.

Pettersson can do all of that with or without the C on his jersey. Captaincy should not be determined by stats and on ice play as there is much more to the captaincy then that.

[EdgarM]

2 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Pettersson can do all of that with or without the C on his jersey. Captaincy should not be determined by stats and on ice play as there is much more to the captaincy then that.

Just wanting something a little different in the next Captain in that he will not accept "EXCUSES" and will just go out there and "DO" instead. There has been some successful Captains in the NHL who carry that "Special" quality in them which brings them to achieve more then what was expected of them and they are a cut above the rest and CUP WINNERS. I see this quality in Petey.

[mikeyman109]

27 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

How about GWG's? I want a guy who will win at all costs and finds a way to lead his team to victory. EP has been doing this and he is still a Rookie, I can only imagine what he can do when he gets as much experience as Bo has. Its not about the points its about the fight in the player and right now EP is displaying this by doing everything in his power to win. Have you seen his effort almost EVERY SHIFT? This kid is the real deal and a guy I want to lead this team to a Cup without a doubt.

we need more than just goal scoring to win. I agree EP is a great player and will continue to grow into a great player but we havent seen him in  aplayoff scenario yet. Henrik and Daniel were great in the regular season but in the playoffs its other players that led the team.

Your point about who scores doesn mean they are the best leader. Laine vs Wheeler for example. If i was looking for a Jets goal id bet on Laine but the leader of that team is Wheeler.

Edited January 5, 2019 by mikeyman109

[EdgarM]

8 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

we need more than just goal scoring to win. I agree EP is a great player and will continue to grow into a great player but we havent seen him in  aplayoff scenario yet. Henrik and Daniel were great in the regular season but in the playoffs its other players that led the team.

Your point about who scores doesn mean they are the best leader. Laine vs Wheeler for example. If i was looking for a Jets goal id bet on Laine but the leader of that team is Wheeler.

I didn't say anything about scoring I just mentioned "game winning goals". This kid already is finding ways to win games. He has way more attributes then the Sedins and he has only played a handful of NHL games. There is no slow down with this kid and he is only going to get better. It just scary to think what he can do in a couple of years.

[Alflives]

Bo is already the Captain.  

[mikeyman109]

Just now, EdgarM said:

I didn't say anything about scoring I just mentioned "game winning goals". This kid already is finding ways to win games. He has way more attributes then the Sedins and he has only played a handful of NHL games. There is no slow down with this kid and he is only going to get better. It just scary to think what he can do in a couple of years.

Yes I understand your argument but what I am saying is a leader does more than just score.

You are correct when you say he is our best offensive weapon. I agree I do not think he is a better leader than BO who does just about everything on the ice.

He takes all the defensive zone face offs , he hits he plays with an edge. He has fought a couple times, he is the on ice leader for this team.

Ill ask you a question. who was the best Canuck player of all time. my answer Bure. but Linden was the best Canuck leader of all time.

[Xbox]

1 hour ago, JamesB said:

I think Horvat with the C and EP40 and Edler with the As is the right call. And Hughes is a great prospect but I would not jump the gun on a guy who has not yet played his first game as a pro. Also, he has kind of an edge to his personality and his game. I have no problem with that as a guy on the team, but it might not be ideal for a guy with the A. But, looking far into the the future, I would not rule out young guys like Woo and Gaudette in the long run. Love the attitude of both those guys. Hope their performance continues to develop.

I mentioned Hughes as Edler's eventual successor because he's the alternate captain of Team USA. I'd bet on Hughes running the teams D-core in the future but you're right it could be someone else like Woo. Hockey is weird like that.

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Xbox

[Elias Pettersson]

Not sure why people would think that Elias would become captain in his 2nd year in the NHL.  Gretzky didn't become captain of the Oilers until 1983, or after he had been playing for 4 years and had already gotten over 700 points.

 

BO is already the unofficial captain, the only thing missing is the C on his jersey...

[Slegr]

The Bure / Linden comparison don't hold much water to me in terms of captain material. 

Bure was 100% sniper, whereas Pettersson is both a goal scorer and play maker. Pettersson plays centre, and seems to have a knack to take control of a game better than Bure.

Linden was a solid captain. I think Horvat could be pretty similar to Linden - not your flashiest offensive talent, just a meat-and-potatoes, honest, hard-working guy out there. Up until this season, to me, it was a no-brainer that the captain would be Horvat. 

But EP has so much potential to be a league MVP and perhaps bring this team to its first championship. When you have someone that special, the meat-and-potatoes guy with great locker room leadership qualities can't compare as easily to an elite star.  

[mikeyman109]

Just now, Slegr said:

The Bure / Linden comparison don't hold much water to me in terms of captain material. 

Bure was 100% sniper, whereas Pettersson is both a goal scorer and play maker. Pettersson plays centre, and seems to have a knack to take control of a game better than Bure.

Linden was a solid captain. I think Horvat could be pretty similar to Linden - not your flashiest offensive talent, just a meat-and-potatoes, honest, hard-working guy out there. Up until this season, to me, it was a no-brainer that the captain would be Horvat. 

But EP has so much potential to be a league MVP and perhaps bring this team to its first championship. When you have someone that special, the meat-and-potatoes guy with great locker room leadership qualities can't compare as easily to an elite star.  

The bure Linden comparison was one of many i made.

Toews Kane

Laine Wheeler

Gaudreau/Giordano

 Again its just not about what they do on the ice and its not really leading to score goals. There are too many factors to go into it. I agree with your thoughts on Petterson being more than just a sniper. He is a center and makes a lot of players offensively better. He doesn't necessarily lead the team. He isn't the guy out there with 30 seconds left and a one goal lead. he isnt the player expected to take the defensive zone face off. He isnt the leader of the team. he is a great offensive talent who hasn't played more than 40 games yet. he hasnt been in the playoffs yet. He hasnt been on the team a whole year yet.

As for Horvat I see a leader on and off the ice. he is the captain even though it isnt on his shirt yet

[fanfor42]

I find it really interesting that there is a real debate here. In the offseason Horvat was the concensus choice hands down. But he has shown some questionable  leadership a few times this year.  And here's a what if. What if Petey wins the Calder and winds up a Hart finalist this year? What if he scores 80+ points? Hmm. Not a slam dunk for Bo at that point..

[mikeyman109]

3 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

I find it really interesting that there is a real debate here. In the offseason Horvat was the concensus choice hands down. But he has shown some questionable  leadership a few times this year.  And here's a what if. What if Petey wins the Calder and winds up a Hart finalist this year? What if he scores 80+ points? Hmm. Not a slam dunk for Bo at that point..

What does scoring 80 +, points have to do with it? what does winning the Calder or the Hart have to do with being a leader. They dont give those trophies to the best leader in the game

 

Also please enlighten me to Bo's questionable leadership moves? I am not aware of them

Edited January 5, 2019 by mikeyman109

[fanfor42]

Do you really believe that Bo is a slam dunk if Petey does what I said?  Don't twist it.  I'm saying it is really interesting that there is a debate now. 

If pettersson does all 3 things the debate will grow. That's what I said. Jeez people need to read with comprehension. 

 

As for Bos gaffes look it up. Lots said on the subject. Again don't read more into it. I simply stated he's made some questionable statements which is a true fact.

 

I'm not predicting here. I'm simply saying it is interesting that the debate is actually brewing now. Got it?

[mikeyman109]

Just now, fanfor42 said:

Do you really believe that Bo is a slam dunk if Petey does what I said?  Don't twist it.  I'm saying it is really interesting that there is a debate now. 

If pettersson does all 3 things the debate will grow. That's what I said. Jeez people need to read with comprehension. 

 

As for Bos gaffes look it up. Lots said on the subject. Again don't read more into it. I simply stated he's made some questionable statements which is a true fact.

 

I'm not predicting here. I'm simply saying it is interesting that the debate is actually brewing now. Got it?

What I am saying again is that the best scorer or even the best player is not the best leader of the team. many examples I brought forward to support my claim.

I am not twisting =anything you said what if Petey scores 80+ points?  I am saying that doesnt matter to who the Captain is, just for reference Petey has 42 points Bo has 36 despite taking almost every defensive face off for the last two months.

 You said what if he wins the Calder, well Brock should have won the calder last year but his name isnt being brought up as captaincy material

I am not running Petterson down i am glad he is on our team. He just isnt a Captain. Just because he scores goals and assists on others does not make him a Captain.

Kane is a better player than Toews. He scores more and probably earns more but the leader of that team is Jonathan Toews for a reason. hes a blood and guts guy that gives his all on every shift and leads the team on and off the ice. I see more of that in Bo's personality than Peteys.

Bo has done it for four years now and has learned from the Sedins what it takes to be Captain. He scores takes face-offs and plays most nights against the best line from the other team. Thats what it takes to be a Captain of an NHL team.

 as for Bo;s questionable statements back up your claim with facts

 

[Slegr]

Mikey, you keep mentioning faceoffs. Just because Horvat is good at faceoffs, should that be a deciding factor on whether he captains a team?

Depending on Gaudette's ceiling, Horvat may find himself as a third-line centre in a couple of years. Is that where we want a captain? Just asking in all seriousness.

[mikeyman109]

face offs and puck possesion are important to a teams success, its one thing he does better than anyone else on the team and its undervalued.he is the one that wins the faceoffs in the O zone that is the start for the power play.he is also the main defensive player out for the draw in our end.

 

I also mentioned that he has 36 points to Peteys 42 which is amazing considering Horvat has had to take all those defensive zone face offs.

 

 Horvat is the emotional leader of the team. I am not discounting what Petey is doing but can he do it consistently for many years? That chapter remains to be seen

Look at what happened to the team last year when Horvat went down .

 

 Look I can understand some here liking what Petey has done this year. its been exciting to see and great for the team. Petterson is a star in the making. Conceded.

What I fail to understand is so many fans not understanding the difference between being the best player on a team and being the best leader on a team.

 

What i hope to see soon is what happens when this team gets to the playoffs and who can perform under that pressure. I am not going to take a 40 game example of what Petey has done in the regular season, his first by the way, and compare it to a 4 year veteran on our team that does everything the team has asked for , still may score more points than Petterson, takes 1000+ face offs and is the key to the team defense and offense.

Edited January 5, 2019 by mikeyman109

[Slegr]

I get what you're saying, Mikey. I still think Horvat would be a fine captain. But EP certainly is making a case for himself. 

 

I think part of me also thinks Horvat does more than what he actually does. I think of him as a Linden type player, but in reality, Linden would dish out massive hits now and then, and always finish a check. Horvat occasionally hits, but nothing too memorable.

 

So he plays strong defensively, which Pettersson does too, he wins a lot of faceoffs, but so did Manny Malhotra, he puts up reasonable amount of points, he speaks well with the media, and he has good relations with teammates. His plus / minus isn't good this year, but you could chalk it up to all the defensive zone faceoffs he takes. 

 

You couldn't go too wrong naming him captain. The question mark for me is could you end up going so much better by waiting and naming EP captain? Maybe that's what Canucks management is trying to figure out.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Slegr

[mikeyman109]

13 minutes ago, Slegr said:

I get what you're saying, Mikey. I still think Horvat would be a fine captain. But EP certainly is making a case for himself. 

 

I think part of me also thinks Horvat does more than what he actually does. I think of him as a Linden type player, but in reality, Linden would dish out massive hits now and then, and always finish a check. Horvat occasionally hits, but nothing too memorable.

 

So he plays strong defensively, which Pettersson does too, he wins a lot of faceoffs, but so did Manny Malhotra, he puts up reasonable amount of points, he speaks well with the media, and he has good relations with teammates. His plus / minus isn't good this year, but you could chalk it up to all the defensive zone faceoffs he takes. 

 

You couldn't go too wrong naming him captain. The question mark for me is could you end up going so much better by waiting and naming EP captain? Maybe that's what Canucks management is trying to figure out.

I see your points also I just think a Veteran player who provides offense, His plus minus is definitely from the face offs in the D zone.  He is 52+% in over 1000 draws this year. He is consistent.

One other factor in Pettersons points vs Bos is that Boeser used to be Bo's winger and now hes Pettersons. who does Bo get to play with now? Baertschi? Virtanen. Eriksson? not a lot of finishers there.

 

What we fail to see is the off ice stuff.The dressing room stuff. The plane and bus ride stuff. Again, I am a big Petterson fan also. I just dont see the wait factor when you have a player leading the team already. If the team grows up and follows Petterson then you make a change then , They did it in San Jose with Thornton they could do it here. I just think there are many examples of teams that have a star scorer and a better leader. Just my opinion

Edited January 5, 2019 by mikeyman109

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said:

Yes I understand your argument but what I am saying is a leader does more than just score.

You are correct when you say he is our best offensive weapon. I agree I do not think he is a better leader than BO who does just about everything on the ice.

He takes all the defensive zone face offs , he hits he plays with an edge. He has fought a couple times, he is the on ice leader for this team.

Ill ask you a question. who was the best Canuck player of all time. my answer Bure. but Linden was the best Canuck leader of all time.

And why was Linden the best Canuck LEADER of all time? Because he gave his ALL and rose above and beyond his expectations. Look at his regular season stats and then look at his playoff stats. He brought it when it meant the most and the picture of him and McLean after game #7 shows how much he gave in 94'. 

Those are the attributes I see in Petey and when he gets BETTER then he is right now, watch out. He will hit other players, he will block shots, he will dive to get the puck out of the zone and he will score when the team needs a goal. That kind of leadership is what I want especially during the playoffs when the time comes.