[Value Of] Picks

[hammertime]

I see CDC drooling over picks and I'm curious how realistic people are being. I think there is as much chance that JB grabs another Brock Boeser who takes 3 years to develope into a top line winger as another Juolevi who takes 4 years to develope into a maybe top 4 D. Realistically how bad do people think this team can get this year? Can they get bad enough to draft 7OA? Can they get good enough to draft 23OA and would what we would have to give up be worth it to draft 7OA? Who do you like at that spot? and would they take this team to the promise land? I think it is possible that Jett Woo is better than any rhd in the first round of this draft. I also think his cieling is top 4 but not top pairing. And I am a huge homer on that pick. Is it worth throwing Sutter and Edler away to get bad enough for a top 7 pick and does it really make the Canucks better long term? Sitting and waiting another 3 years for those assets to turn into something while ELCs expire does it really take the canucks fo the next level or do we just end up like Edmonton perennially bad hoping for the next draft to solve our problems.

 

[King Heffy]

I want to keep Edler and re-sign him to help insulate the kids.  I definitely trust Benning to be able to get a quality player regardless of where he drafts.  Woo, DiPietro, Demko, Lind, Gaudette, Madden, Gadjovich all went after the first round and are developing nicely.

 

I just don't want picks traded away.  No need to be either buyers or sellers.

[hammertime]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

I want to keep Edler and re-sign him to help insulate the kids.  I definitely trust Benning to be able to get a quality player regardless of where he drafts.  Woo, DiPietro, Demko, Lind, Gaudette, Madden, Gadjovich all went after the first round and are developing nicely.

 

I just don't want picks traded away.  No need to be either buyers or sellers.

So we agree. I dont want to trade Eddie I think he is very valuable to the rebuild and the trade and re sign seems very wishful thinking with horrible ramifications if it backfires. and I think JB and Co will continue to keep improving the team regardless of if they are competitive or not. 

 

I just dont see a wide gap between picks 7 to 20 this year. 

[40Dangles]

After #3 there really isn't a consensus as to who the top players are. Hughes/Kakko/ Podkolzin  and arguably after Kakko its going to be another year like the last 2....there is just  plethora of centers (and most teams love drafting centers early) and few high high end Dmen that people will reach early for so it is going to be all over the map in my view.

As for trading higher, depending on where the Canucks end up, I doubt they will. I think they will fight for a playoff birth but just miss and be in the lottery and end up with a top 10 pick. With that, and JB/team drafting acumen we will get a good player and another piece for the core. That being said, because its such a jumble after 2/3 moving up a few spots shouldn't be that hard this year (ie trade the pick and add in Goldy to move up 2-3 spots to get the guy they want), should be achievable.

 

Really depends on where they end up in the lottery/ order. What they should be doing is trying to acquire as many picks as possible. Look at Buffalo, a terrific young team is now established, and they have three first rounders this year. Perhaps a good destination for Sutter if we look to be fading at the trade deadline (cap permitting)

 

 

[Green Goblin]

If we're out of a playoff spot by the TDL, then I say it's a must sell situation. With the way our vets like Edler and Tanev have been playing overall, it would be hard to pass up some potentially nice offers for our top 2 D. I could definitely see at least a 1st round pick and some decent prospects in a deal.

 

Jack Hughes

[IBatch]

There’s nothing in the reports to consider that Jett Woo is going to be better than any of the RHDs available in this years first round...that’s silly.  And there’s nothing to suggest this years draft will be as bad as the one the Sedins were drafted in either (considered one of the worst drafts ever).   Most likely it will be an average draft, with some top end players available (Hughes has been talked about and touted as much as Mathews was, actually more and for longer), some surprises available in the first round and some duds too.    

 

Benning needs a home run this year, a player that can be in the lineup within two years like EP and making a difference and I don’t see him picking a defenseman (take too long) with his first unless someone that’s too tempting slips onto his lap and is by far the BPA, his second yes to hedge his bet on Jett Woo in case he doesn’t make it, maybe his third too for the same reason.

 

Our immidiate RHD issues will have to be handled by either moving Hughes there, or by free agency.  Mixed feeling about Myers mostly because he’s already spent significant time in the infirmary, but he’d probably supplant Tanev if we signed him.  He’s never given any PP time unless Trouba Or Byfuglien are injured, still managed some good numbers  5 x 5 that’s enough to push him to mid to high forties if he did get the minutes, has size, former Calder winner etc.  And he’s almsot certainly going to market because WNP cant afford him after this year (but he won’t be traded they want him for their run).

 

We need our picks this year, wouldn’t trade any for Ferland even if he signs with us, we can get him later if he’s still available, he’s not as tough as some posters think, doesn’t stick up for his teammates as much as some posters think, would rather we play a tough SOB on the fourth line to keep the rats at bay and find EP an actual first liner to dish to.  If that guys also the type to stick up for his mates and has size, even better but don’t think that’s Ferland.  He didn’t do this much in Calgary and is playing for a contract..makes you wonder what your really getting.  Would much rather have Stone from OTT.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

We need our picks this year, wouldn’t trade any for Ferland even if he signs with us, we can get him later if he’s still available, he’s not as tough as some posters think, doesn’t stick up for his teammates as much as some posters think, would rather we play a tough SOB on the fourth line to keep the rats at bay and find EP an actual first liner to dish to.  If that guys also the type to stick up for his mates and has size, even better but don’t think that’s Ferland.  He didn’t do this much in Calgary and is playing for a contract..makes you wonder what your really getting.  Would much rather have Stone from OTT.

***puts tinfoil hat on***

 

Do people REALLY think Ferland would be able to get away with some of the stunts during that playoff series against them while wearing a Canucks jersey?  Since when have they 'looked the other way' or 'been given the benefit of the doubt' in a borderline incident?

 

Our PK isn't THAT good.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

***puts tinfoil hat on***

 

Do people REALLY think Ferland would be able to get away with some of the stunts during that playoff series against them while wearing a Canucks jersey?  Since when have they 'looked the other way' or 'been given the benefit of the doubt' in a borderline incident?

 

Our PK isn't THAT good.

Good call.  I will put my tinfoil hat on (or re-adjust it ha ha ) ....  The way the refs call it EP draws one or two penalties a game,  no more because if they called it by the rule book we’d be on the PP most of the game.  Even worse we get a PP and then the refs look to “even things up” and call a borderline infraction to JV, Sutter, Beagle or with it minutes of our PP.  

 

This is a league wide phenomenon, McDavid and other skilled players draw way less penalties than actually occur,  and the refs look to even things up as soon as possible.  Seriously wish they went back to one ref, the missed calls still happen and I swear the other guy just can’t wait to blow his whistle no matter who’s on the PP at any given moment.

 

To beat a well flogged horse, we got way more PPs then Boston did in 2011, but not nearly as much as could have being called because refs have this fear or anxiety or whatever to even things up at the first moment, or ignore the most recently penalized teams next infraction, sometimes even if it’s ridiculously clear it’s a penalty.

 

Tin foil hat off...screw the refs, screw TO and their “war room”, if the RCMP wanted to create an investigation into our clubs history, there is an abundance of evidence that we as Canuck fans, have been royally screwed compared to the median of malfeasance going on as far as reffing goes.  Conspiracy?  Probably not, but we sure have been screwed in the past.  Hopefully the public influence and good capital EP and other young players is giving this team will affect the psyche of refs going forward, Elliott Friedman’s remarks will sink in and they will start calling it how it is...if so we will crush the opposition eventually.  Ok maybe I kept my tinfoil hat on.   Gulp I hope it’s not always there.

[Crabcakes]

Don't want to see buying or selling.

[hammertime]

I'm ok with buying and selling at the right price. Just no rentals.

[komodo0921]

11 hours ago, hammertime said:

I'm ok with buying and selling at the right price. Just no rentals.

Any deal we make should be with long term goals in mind no matter what the present situation is. 

I don't understand teams that trade for players they know they're not re-signing long-term

A good example could be Alex Edler. He is heart and soul a Canuck. Any team that is, potentially, interested in him would have to know his only interest in the offseason would be to get back into the green and blue. Teams would know he's a rental, yet they'd give up assets to get him in a, more often than not, failed attempt to bolster a blueline for a playoff run. 

If I'm gm, however, my first questions about any potential deal have to do with long-term ramifications.

What does this deal do for us next year?

What does the return provide us with 3 yrs from now?

Whenever I make a proposal in Armchair gming, my posts always include a prospect, draft pick, or both as part of the return. I always want something back that focuses on long-term goals.

But hey, if a team wants to give us prospects, picks, or both for a rental; Who am I to argue?

[TheGuardian_]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 10:28 PM, hammertime said:

I see CDC drooling over picks and I'm curious how realistic people are being. I think there is as much chance that JB grabs another Brock Boeser who takes 3 years to develope into a top line winger as another Juolevi who takes 4 years to develope into a maybe top 4 D. Realistically how bad do people think this team can get this year? Can they get bad enough to draft 7OA? Can they get good enough to draft 23OA and would what we would have to give up be worth it to draft 7OA? Who do you like at that spot? and would they take this team to the promise land? I think it is possible that Jett Woo is better than any rhd in the first round of this draft. I also think his cieling is top 4 but not top pairing. And I am a huge homer on that pick. Is it worth throwing Sutter and Edler away to get bad enough for a top 7 pick and does it really make the Canucks better long term? Sitting and waiting another 3 years for those assets to turn into something while ELCs expire does it really take the canucks fo the next level or do we just end up like Edmonton perennially bad hoping for the next draft to solve our problems.

 

How bad this year is easy, the team is rebuilding still, it has no depth it was praised as to how good they were without a rookie, Pettersson, that shallow of depth.

The plan should have been all the way along to trade Edler for more picks and consider Tanev as well.

This team will continue to compete but without the dynamic duo Markstrom and Demko would see even more rubber, honing their skills like Luongo went through in his early years but with fewer points. There is no guarantee of a number one selection, but there can be guarnatees for top 4, 5, 6 or 7 selections and with 13 teams all within 8 points a drop in the standings would not be hard.

 

Either trades of Edler and Tanev for more picks or one gets injured or both.

 

 

22 hours ago, IBatch said:

Tin foil hat off...screw the refs, screw TO and their “war room”, if the RCMP wanted to create an investigation into our clubs history, there is an abundance of evidence that we as Canuck fans, have been royally screwed compared to the median of malfeasance going on as far as reffing goes.  Conspiracy?  Probably not, but we sure have been screwed in the past.  Hopefully the public influence and good capital EP and other young players is giving this team will affect the psyche of refs going forward, Elliott Friedman’s remarks will sink in and they will start calling it how it is...if so we will crush the opposition eventually.  Ok maybe I kept my tinfoil hat on.   Gulp I hope it’s not always there.

All the way back to Gregson, who was rewarded with a lifetime NHL contract, in 94.

 

This kind of "game management" will cease with the NHL's agreement with the Casino, that kind of partnership entices the law to watch carefully and from the presser there will be some kind of reviewing of plays/calls done quickly, this requires more cameras and they stated they were implementing a trial in some arenas that have more cameras but will still need more yet.

 

The NHL/Bettman looks at Canada as a single team in the playoffs, hence the term "Canada's team", you don't hear "US's team". In 2011 Bettman crowned TO as Canada's team and I posted I thought they would be the next Canadian team to win the cup, that is in a post and not a lie. I also predicted that there would be a Canadian cup winner within 5 years of the Roger's media deal.

 

Tin hat stuff for sure, but no more tin hat than proclaiming that prospects will make the Canucks cup contenders.

[Nucker 67]

I'd like to trade Goldobin for a 2nd (2019) and possibly Gagner for a 4th/5th. Gather as many picks as possible. Doesn't mean Benning has to make three picks in the 6th round either. He can package picks for a higher pick or a prospect waiting for an opportunity. The more picks the better, as this gives Benning options.

 

I think the Canucks pick around #15 this year, so they'll still get a good player to add to the mix of prospects.

 

W - Dahlen, Gadjovich, Lind, Jasek, Lockwood, Palmu

C - Gaudette, MacEwen, Madden

LD - Hughes, Juolevi, Brisebois, Rathbone, Utunen, Tryamkin*

RD - Woo, Chatfield

G - DiPietro

 

Be good to get a couple more RDs in development.

 

[JeremyCuddles]

I don't think we really have anyone on the table worth any picks. Edler doesn't seem like he'll waive his NTC. Tanev if he can stay healthy right up til the trade deadline (knock on wood) might be able to retrieve some lost value but a pure defensive guy isn't really in vogue anymore unless they also bring toughness. So I don't see him bringing a pick higher than a 2nd unless we take a cap dump back. Sam "I'm so likable" Gagner is worthless it seems. Or we should be looking at a worse return than what MDZ got.

 

Goldy is one dimensional, project type player. They don't fetch much especially not good draft picks. Sad part is you'd think Goldy would have seen Baer and emulated what he did. Cause I'd say there are some similarities there. Baer needed to somewhat revamp his game to become a NHLer, vastly improving on his defensive play. Maybe another team will be able to pull that out of him. Maybe a Goldobin for Julius Honka swap or something similar with another team.

 

People thinking the team is looking to move guys like Sutter, Baer or Marky should probably not hold their breath. I am not gonna touch on why Sutter shouldn't/won't be moved since I do it all the time. Baer is our only legit top 6 LWer. And Demko should not be thrown into the fire this early. Guy has 2 career NHL games and he gave up 3 or more goals in both games. Lets let him stew as a the backup for a while. Marky is becoming legit. Guy has been consistently good for a while now. I am actually confident in him as a starter now. Marky has made me a believer. 

[Father Ryan]

Unless we are hopelessly out of the race, I don't want to see us as "sellers". Unless, we get really hot in the next 11 games or so (like 9-1-1 or better) I don't want to see us as buyers. We have a nucleus. Yes, we do need a couple/few holes filled in. We're NOT going to get in the lottery (just no way, the luck "gods" won't allow it!). So...we have to develop players.

I would like to see a couple of guys gone. Poulliott, Schaller, Goldobin,  maybe Granlund. That's it. Their places go to Hughes, MacEwen and Gaudette. I could be convinced about Sutter also, especially if Gaudette continues on his current development curve.

We have a few spare picks. Goldy might net a 2nd to a contending club at the TDL. That's about as good as I see it getting. All those spare 6th round picks can be used to slide up a spot or two in later rounds, to grab someone that will fit in really well.

If we do manage to get in the top 5, then Bowen Byram sounds really good!. If in the 15-20 range, Seider looks good, and develop as a replacement for Guddy

[shad0w4life]

3 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I'd like to trade Goldobin for a 2nd (2019) and possibly Gagner for a 4th/5th. Gather as many picks as possible. Doesn't mean Benning has to make three picks in the 6th round either. He can package picks for a higher pick or a prospect waiting for an opportunity. The more picks the better, as this gives Benning options.

 

I think the Canucks pick around #15 this year, so they'll still get a good player to add to the mix of prospects.

 

W - Dahlen, Gadjovich, Lind, Jasek, Lockwood, Palmu

C - Gaudette, MacEwen, Madden

LD - Hughes, Juolevi, Brisebois, Rathbone, Utunen, Tryamkin*

RD - Woo, Chatfield

G - DiPietro

 

Be good to get a couple more RDs in development.

 

He still has more points that Virtanen but we should trade him? We're already lacking offense, we have EP and Boeser that's it for anyone with skill on the current roster.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Well, I am starting to talk myself out of really big moves, as we show we are more competitive.....in saying that...….

 

I have a hard time understanding, why we do not move secondary veterans...Sutter, Goldobin, Pouliot, Gagner, Schaller at the TDL, and possibly even Hutton at the draft, while they are hot, or redundant...………....I see Granlund as our Swiss army knife and would rather keep him.

 

I think back of last year and us picking up Beagle and Rousell, and how they have impacted our team in such a positive way. I look at Calvin De Haan in Carolina who signed for a reasonable rate, and would have been a welcome addition to our club.

 

It is not that these players are not decent players, or that they do not help our club, it is for me, that they are replaceable at a decent price, and the assets gained are free, in regards to being extra assets......all these players can be replace either internally or through free agency

 

Consider just for the sake of argument that the replacements do not cost more than an average increase of $500,000  more per player acquired, given that some would not be replaced externally and would be replaced with ELC's...aka Sutter by Gaudette, Hutton by Hughes, and Goldobin by Dahlen, and Schaller by McEwen...…… The players that would be replaced by ELC's would bring back a conservative return off.....

 

Sutter...………………...mid round 2nd …….4.3...…...Gaudette...…...1,0................Savings 4.3

Hutton...………………..mid round 2nd...…...2.8...…...Hughes......…..1.0................Savings 1.8

Goldobin...……………..mid round 2nd...…...1,0...…...Dahlen......…...1.0................Savings 0.0

Schaller at 50%...……..mid round 3rd...……1,0...…...McEwen......….1.0................Savings 0.0

Pouliot...………………..mid round 5th..…….1,0...…...Juolevi......……1.0...…...…...Savings 0.0

Gagner at 50%...……...mid round 5th......….1.0...……………………..0.0...………...Savings 1.0

                                                                                      Total savings of......................6.3 Million

 

In actual fact, if most were replaced internally, there would be a net savings that 6.3 Million, which then could be used to actually invest in a UFA, if Benning does want to, and that is off of todays cap........................

 

The picks are just gravy, and could we not use more Woo's, Rathbone, DiPietro, Gaudette's and Madden's in our prospect pool? Or combined to take an earlier pick/picks

Where is our actual loss? Maybe someone could explain this to me.