Jim Benning interview on Sportsnet 650

[NewbieCanuckFan]

20 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Absolutely.  And I hate it when I read some misdirected poster mention “ all the picks he threw away”.  He sent two seconds in trades, one that became Bear, the other Vey, and some late rounders that usually involved picks coming back our way.  And nobody mentions the picks we got for Torts (2nd) or Bieksa.   It’s a fools errand IMO, anyone past maybe a 3rd rounder rarely makes the show let alone becomes an impact player.   Let it go already.

To be fair the Torts compensation was a league mandated gift (not enough for the pain and suffering of that season ).  Technically Gillis should get the credit for it for hiring that awful coach.

[IBatch]

9 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

To be fair the Torts compensation was a league mandated gift (not enough for the pain and suffering of that season ).  Technically Gillis should get the credit for it for hiring that awful coach.

Absolutely.  Something that Benning made sure they got even though at the time and since GMs are scrubbing from their agreements.  It likely won’t happen ever again if a coach is fired and then re-hired despite receiving compensation from the original team, Benning didn’t bend to the pressure from his colleagues at the time to just let it go and there was some pressure.  Just another example of GMs wanting their cake and their ice cream and their pudding, but changing their minds when well, they can’t have all three (they pushed for this rule in the first place, and now no longer want it). 

[Wilbur]

34 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Absolutely.  And I hate it when I read some misdirected poster mention “ all the picks he threw away”.  He sent two seconds in trades, one that became Bear, the other Vey, and some late rounders that usually involved picks coming back our way.  And nobody mentions the picks we got for Torts (2nd) or Bieksa.   It’s a fools errand IMO, anyone past maybe a 3rd rounder rarely makes the show let alone becomes an impact player.   Let it go already.

To these posters though, those 2nd rounds picks are our future 1 and 2 defensman.  To them, trading for depth is an absolute waste because you simply sign a veterans to 1 year contracts to fill those spots.  Trade the vets at the deadline and repeat.  Not only are you not wasting picks, you are accumulating them.  It's so simple!

 

Nevermind the fact that this only happens in isolated cases around the league and not for 5 players on one team every year for 3 years or so.  You'd think these posters would see how rarely teams do this and understand it's not how you run an organization.

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, Wilbur said:

To these posters though, those 2nd rounds picks are our future 1 and 2 defensman.  To them, trading for depth is an absolute waste because you simply sign a veterans to 1 year contracts to fill those spots.  Trade the vets at the deadline and repeat.  Not only are you not wasting picks, you are accumulating them.  It's so simple!

 

Nevermind the fact that this only happens in isolated cases around the league and not for 5 players on one team every year for 3 years or so.  You'd think these posters would see how rarely teams do this and understand it's not how you run an organization.

I guess those posters aren’t good at math.  Or maybe they scour the drafts and assume because Benning is such a good drafter he would have drafted Messier and Larry Robinson with the picks he used on Vey and Bear.  The other thing they should consider is likely.  neither of those picks would have made a difference as much as Bear has in his time with us, and the team would have dropped a little in the standing and perhaps never been in a position to draft Pettersson.  Things are the way they are, we’ve ended up getting better faster than we anticipated after the Sedins retirement mostly on EPs back.  Personally I expected some more down years and some pretty dark times...both Boeser and EP have come better than advertised which leaves me pretty optimistic.  Maybe someone other then Benning would have done a better job, but we have who we have, and he’s done a decent job at the least.  He’s not beyond reproach but nobody is, drafting EP might turn into the best thing he’s ever done, and it’s his staff that both found him and then unanimously decided he was their guy if he was still there, went off board slightly to take him and the rest is history.  Given how excited they were to get Hughes I’m hopeful he will also create a similar impact once he plays with us.  

 

Thete still is is a lot of impatience on this board, and postering and nit-picking.

 

To those that are doing this I say to you would you rather have all your picks back, the dead years back that were just waiting for the Sedins to retire, and all the BS that goes on with that, or be here right and now and with EP in the lineup? 

 

Because he wouldn’t be here if we just missed the playoffs and picked after ten in 2017.    Who’d we have instead in our lineup, maybe MT instead of OJ?  Excuse me but I’m happy we picked him instead if that’s the cost.

[Wilbur]

29 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I guess those posters aren’t good at math.  Or maybe they scour the drafts and assume because Benning is such a good drafter he would have drafted Messier and Larry Robinson with the picks he used on Vey and Bear.  The other thing they should consider is likely.  neither of those picks would have made a difference as much as Bear has in his time with us, and the team would have dropped a little in the standing and perhaps never been in a position to draft Pettersson.  Things are the way they are, we’ve ended up getting better faster than we anticipated after the Sedins retirement mostly on EPs back.  Personally I expected some more down years and some pretty dark times...both Boeser and EP have come better than advertised which leaves me pretty optimistic.  Maybe someone other then Benning would have done a better job, but we have who we have, and he’s done a decent job at the least.  He’s not beyond reproach but nobody is, drafting EP might turn into the best thing he’s ever done, and it’s his staff that both found him and then unanimously decided he was their guy if he was still there, went off board slightly to take him and the rest is history.  Given how excited they were to get Hughes I’m hopeful he will also create a similar impact once he plays with us.  

 

Thete still is is a lot of impatience on this board, and postering and nit-picking.

 

To those that are doing this I say to you would you rather have all your picks back, the dead years back that were just waiting for the Sedins to retire, and all the BS that goes on with that, or be here right and now and with EP in the lineup? 

 

Because he wouldn’t be here if we just missed the playoffs and picked after ten in 2017.    Who’d we have instead in our lineup, maybe MT instead of OJ?  Excuse me but I’m happy we picked him instead if that’s the cost.

Not just math, but not good at seeing the value in organizational depth.  I think some see as depth as getting in the way of the team sinking lower and preventing the Canucks from getting even higher picks (and the odds of getting the best player).  What is the point in getting the best players if you have to rush them all the time because you have no depth.  Without Vrbata, maybe Boeser is forced into the lineup as an 18 year old.  Without Vanek, Boeser is learning the ropes from Reid Boucher in the NHL.  Would he be the same player today?

 

The trades of Nilsson and Del Zotto, to me, shows this organization is slowly turning the corner into it's next wave of being competitive.  Benningmade the comment of hoping this team would have meaningful games in February this year.  Clearly we'll get that.  Is it fair to extrapolate that next year a good goal would be to have meaningful games in March?  April in 2021?  May 2022?  Plan the parade in 2023 or 24?  That time frame does match a lot of development curves for our current players.

[CanadianRugby]

53 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

 

 

39 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

To you guys arguing that it was good to trade 2nd round picks away while rebuilding... 

The reason you state:

- 2nd round picks don't usually amount to much

Yet, with our 2nd round picks Benning has drafted Woo, Lind, Gadjovich, and Demko.  

Pretty good.  I'd rather have 3 more guys like that for when this team gets good rather than Baer, Vey or Gudbranson.  

 

The other reason used was:  Canucks needed to get some 20something players to fill the age gap so the team wouldn't suck and ruin our prospects like Edmonton. 

Well, this team still ended up awful.  It didn't ruin our prospects. 

 

Rebuilds are done through the draft and tanking worked for the Canucks even though they had bad luck in the lottery.  100% of our impact players for the rebuild have been added through the draft, unless foundational Sutter is an impact player in your eyes.  Also, if it wasn't for icing god awful teams (on purpose or by accident) we wouldn't have Pettersson, OJ, Hughes or Virtanen.  

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, CanadianRugby said:

 

To you guys arguing that it was good to trade 2nd round picks away while rebuilding... 

The reason you state:

- 2nd round picks don't usually amount to much

Yet, with our 2nd round picks Benning has drafted Woo, Lind, Gadjovich, and Demko.  

Pretty good.  I'd rather have 3 more guys like that for when this team gets good rather than Baer, Vey or Gudbranson.  

 

The other reason used was:  Canucks needed to get some 20something players to fill the age gap so the team wouldn't suck and ruin our prospects like Edmonton. 

Well, this team still ended up awful.  It didn't ruin our prospects. 

 

Rebuilds are done through the draft and tanking worked for the Canucks even though they had bad luck in the lottery.  100% of our impact players for the rebuild have been added through the draft, unless foundational Sutter is an impact player in your eyes.  Also, if it wasn't for icing god awful teams (on purpose or by accident) we wouldn't have Pettersson, OJ, Hughes or Virtanen.  

Wasn’t arguing it was good to do it, rather it’s nit picking and not as big a deal as people make it out to be. We traded two seconds and got one from Torts and Bear who is better than most second rounders that make the show.  Whoopie.  Spend some time and look around the league to see what other teams have done with their picks over the same time period, other GMs have done it too, some traded multiple firsts for guys that aren’t even on their team anymore with nothing to show for it.

 

Its really not a big deal.  It’s funny how the same people forget to mention the gains from Beiksa, Hansen, Burrows and even Vanek.  Unless they are stating we didn’t get enough for them but that was market value.  

 

Admittedly picks aren’t traded as often the past few years as now GMs are fully aware that they need every chance they can get to find cheap alternatives to aging vets...Duchene, Tatar aside, first rounders aren’t thrown around like candy at a carnival like it used to be come TDL.  

 

Again for those who want to keep bringning this up over and over again like a broken record that doesn’t sound all that good anyways, everything that has happened has resulted in us drafting EP.  NHL.com, Bob McKenzie, Elliott’s Friedman and pretty much every hockey source is hailing him as the next big thing.  THN recently printed an issue with him on the cover (count that as number one, of many to come) which is actually a big deal.  Not many rookies get that honour and they proceeded to explain how he’s the best rookie the league has seen since Crosby and Ovechkin.  Halt, rewind, what was that?  Isn’t there an Eastern bias and why wasn’t Mathews included in that or the very least the most hyped prospect since Crosby, in consecutive Art Ross winner McDavid?  Sure maybe he only played half a season but then he proceeded to Gretzky his way into the hardware for someone his age.  It was a thoughtful well written cover story going over why he’s called the Alien, and how the Canucks first got on his trail and were ahead of the rest of the pack in wanting him.  And they truly think he’s a special talent, much like the rest of the hockey universe.

 

So what would you rather have, two second rounders back and no Vey or Bear (not going to credit trading 3rds, not enough of them make it to bother), and a couple Linds instead and no Pettersson?  Because Bear has done enough to effect where we end up in the standings, and who we’ve picked the last several seasons.  

[40Dangles]

On 1/26/2019 at 12:49 AM, cory40 said:

I got yah. That's a good point. I am 100 % against the poor sport tanking we have seen the last decade. I would love to see all teams that miss the play-offs with the same odds and do a complete draft order. that would fix the tanking!

Agreed, and look at the tankers, has it helped? Edmonton is perpetual suckage, Toronto may have a few stars but they are all selfish and now are going to put that team into cap hell. I would be surprised if they ever win a cup with that group, way too many egos, and they are all playing for money other than Tavares who I think wants to really win. Matthews and Nylander look like players who play for the money, Marner competes hard but they are screwed next year when they have to pay them all. LOL

[40Dangles]

33 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

 

To you guys arguing that it was good to trade 2nd round picks away while rebuilding... 

The reason you state:

- 2nd round picks don't usually amount to much

Yet, with our 2nd round picks Benning has drafted Woo, Lind, Gadjovich, and Demko.  

Pretty good.  I'd rather have 3 more guys like that for when this team gets good rather than Baer, Vey or Gudbranson.  

 

The other reason used was:  Canucks needed to get some 20something players to fill the age gap so the team wouldn't suck and ruin our prospects like Edmonton. 

Well, this team still ended up awful.  It didn't ruin our prospects. 

 

Rebuilds are done through the draft and tanking worked for the Canucks even though they had bad luck in the lottery.  100% of our impact players for the rebuild have been added through the draft, unless foundational Sutter is an impact player in your eyes.  Also, if it wasn't for icing god awful teams (on purpose or by accident) we wouldn't have Pettersson, OJ, Hughes or Virtanen.  

I won't disagree that keeping picks is important because it is for sure. But the defense of your position isn't very strong tbh. Baer, Guddy are proven NHL'ers. You've named prospects who have not proven they will ever play in the NHL or even be as good as those two. Ok Vey sucked but is what it is, and Demko "looks" to be real so I'll give you that.....Again, agree with your point but your support isn't strong for your argument because you're assuming alot!

[CanadianRugby]

15 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Wasn’t arguing it was good to do it, rather it’s nit picking and not as big a deal as people make it out to be. We traded two seconds and got one from Torts and Bear who is better than most second rounders that make the show.  Whoopie.  Spend some time and look around the league to see what other teams have done with their picks over the same time period, other GMs have done it too, some traded multiple firsts for guys that aren’t even on their team anymore with nothing to show for it.

 

Its really not a big deal.  It’s funny how the same people forget to mention the gains from Beiksa, Hansen, Burrows and even Vanek.  Unless they are stating we didn’t get enough for them but that was market value.  

 

Admittedly picks aren’t traded as often the past few years as now GMs are fully aware that they need every chance they can get to find cheap alternatives to aging vets...Duchene, Tatar aside, first rounders aren’t thrown around like candy at a carnival like it used to be come TDL.  

 

Again for those who want to keep bringning this up over and over again like a broken record that doesn’t sound all that good anyways, everything that has happened has resulted in us drafting EP.  NHL.com, Bob McKenzie, Elliott’s Friedman and pretty much every hockey source is hailing him as the next big thing.  THN recently printed an issue with him on the cover (count that as number one, of many to come) which is actually a big deal.  Not many rookies get that honour and they proceeded to explain how he’s the best rookie the league has seen since Crosby and Ovechkin.  Halt, rewind, what was that?  Isn’t there an Eastern bias and why wasn’t Mathews included in that or the very least the most hyped prospect since Crosby, in consecutive Art Ross winner McDavid?  Sure maybe he only played half a season but then he proceeded to Gretzky his way into the hardware for someone his age.  It was a thoughtful well written cover story going over why he’s called the Alien, and how the Canucks first got on his trail and were ahead of the rest of the pack in wanting him.  And they truly think he’s a special talent, much like the rest of the hockey universe.

 

So what would you rather have, two second rounders back and no Vey or Bear (not going to credit trading 3rds, not enough of them make it to bother), and a couple Linds instead and no Pettersson?  Because Bear has done enough to effect where we end up in the standings, and who we’ve picked the last several seasons.  

Well I agree that it's not the biggest deal not to get those extra picks.  Drafting high was the priority to get the premier players, which we ended up doing.  That said, not getting those extra picks was done for a nonsense reason and it will hurt in the future not matter how you look at it.  Unless you think that Benning would have missed on all 3 picks he traded plus on any picks he would have traded for.  Don't think that's likely considering all his 2nd round picks look good and we probably have a #1 goalie out of it.  So really we're not disagreeing, just nitpicking on the importance of picks.

 

On your 2nd point.  I think it's silly honestly.  If we did this or that we might have not ended up with Pettersson?   Well, I could just as easily say if we tanked instead of signing Miller & Vrbata we might have ended up drafting McDavid and maybe Laine right after.  

 

4 minutes ago, 40Dangles said:

I won't disagree that keeping picks is important because it is for sure. But the defense of your position isn't very strong tbh. Baer, Guddy are proven NHL'ers. You've named prospects who have not proven they will ever play in the NHL or even be as good as those two. Ok Vey sucked but is what it is, and Demko "looks" to be real so I'll give you that.....Again, agree with your point but your support isn't strong for your argument because you're assuming alot!

I like Baer but sorry we could have signed a big defenceman that can't play defence for that money pretty easily.  Give me the picks all day!

[messier's_elbow]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

This is actually fabulous news for us.  OJ is a big boy, and adding muscle building and strength training to his already excellent talents is going to make him even better.  This kid is going to be a very VERY special player in a year or two.  It’s like JB identifies the kids that are going to mature more (both physically and emotionally) after their draft years, and develops them.  Sure, there are the instant gratification guys in those drafts, but our guys will pass those others, and lead us to Cups.  

Way to go JB!  

I agree, if he can stay relatively heathly for now on... scares me when a young guy is riddled with injuries. He was doing well if Utica before the knee problem so hopefully he keeps it up.

[stanleysteamersmyl]

2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

To be fair the Torts compensation was a league mandated gift (not enough for the pain and suffering of that season ).  Technically Gillis should get the credit for it for hiring that awful coach.

Awful coach.

On March 19, 2016, the Blue Jackets faced the New Jersey Devils and Tortorella became the 26th head coach in NHL history, and the first born in the United States, to coach 1,000 games.^[13] On December 18, 2016, the Blue Jackets defeated the Canucks in overtime 4–3, making Tortorella the first American-born coach with 500 victories.^[14] On January 10, 2019, Tortorella became the first American-born coach, and 19th overall, to reach 600 victories when the Blue Jackets defeated Nashville Predators.^[15]

[stanleysteamersmyl]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

My answer to this would be his aversion to gyms, ie strength and conditioning.  Salo worked on this last season, honestly don’t know where he’s at with this but you have to wonder if he showed more dedication to that aspect of game from the outset and his body was stronger, would his injuries be as many and significant, or would they even have occurred.  Sure fit guys go down too so it’s probably not the case,  but young guys do need to spend a lot of time there to catch up to the men they end up playing against who have better strength and years of workouts and muscle memory working in their favour.

 

You “can’t teach hockey smarts in the gym “ , but you can’t get into nhl game shape avoiding the gym either, it’s a big part of the routine for young players, not just during the off-season either.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, stanleysteamersmyl said:

Awful coach.

On March 19, 2016, the Blue Jackets faced the New Jersey Devils and Tortorella became the 26th head coach in NHL history, and the first born in the United States, to coach 1,000 games.^[13] On December 18, 2016, the Blue Jackets defeated the Canucks in overtime 4–3, making Tortorella the first American-born coach with 500 victories.^[14] On January 10, 2019, Tortorella became the first American-born coach, and 19th overall, to reach 600 victories when the Blue Jackets defeated Nashville Predators.^[15]

He was an awful coach for the Canucks.  Didn’t seem to put much effort (I can’t recall any kind of system he implemented...seemingly letting his assistants handle a lot of duties).  His strategy was like Anti-Willie.  While the later would keep the players fresh (1-2-3-4), Torts just rode his horses until they got too fatigued or got injured (overplaying tends to lead to injuries).  Oddly enough, this method might’ve been effective in the post season but you have to get to the post season first before running out of gas.

 

At least that’s how I saw it. (I’m stating an opinion rather than claiming a fact).

[Ballisticsports.]

3 hours ago, 40Dangles said:

I won't disagree that keeping picks is important because it is for sure. But the defense of your position isn't very strong tbh. Baer, Guddy are proven NHL'ers. You've named prospects who have not proven they will ever play in the NHL or even be as good as those two. Ok Vey sucked but is what it is, and Demko "looks" to be real so I'll give you that.....Again, agree with your point but your support isn't strong for your argument because you're assuming alot!

Not sure why Vey is mentioned by the other poster (and you)

Vey was a 4th round pick, that the Canucks traded a 2nd round pick for

[40Dangles]

3 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Not sure why Vey is mentioned by the other poster (and you)

Vey was a 4th round pick, that the Canucks traded a 2nd round pick for

I think he was saying never give up 2nd rounder or picks for that matter in a rebuild (aka valid point) as look at what we gave up for Vey and what he ended up as....however he said we also got baer and guddy and felt they weren't good value - which I disagreed with, they were vs assuming a 2nd rounder will develop.

[cory40]

12 hours ago, GreyHatnDart said:

Yes and no. It would help, but for teams that are actually not good and not tanking, it would make it harder to legitimately get better. 

Its kinda already that way!

[Phat Fingers]

19 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

Absolutely! Thanks i wasn't aware there where issues off the ice as well.

I would say his issues would largely be off the ice.  He is a damn good player.  His PPG as a 20 y/o in the AHL was excellent.  His Pts is the Ligia as a under 20 is second in league history only two hieskanan.  

 

That he didn't make the NHL by 20 isn't abnormal or a deficit.  I will wait to give OJ an  appraisal until year 5 just like I reccomend with JV.  The only way to get an early one is by beating expectations.  IE EP40 has proven that he is NHL material.  OJ cant be considered a wasteful pick until 5 years.  

[Jayinblack]

14 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

He was an awful coach for the Canucks.  Didn’t seem to put much effort (I can’t recall any kind of system he implemented...seemingly letting his assistants handle a lot of duties).  His strategy was like Anti-Willie.  While the later would keep the players fresh (1-2-3-4), Torts just rode his horses until they got too fatigued or got injured (overplaying tends to lead to injuries).  Oddly enough, this method might’ve been effective in the post season but you have to get to the post season first before running out of gas.

 

At least that’s how I saw it. (I’m stating an opinion rather than claiming a fact).

Exactly as I saw it.   I remember reading how he didn't attend game day skates cause he never moved closer than Point Roberts

[TheGuardian_]

On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 9:47 AM, Darius said:

You need to revise your hfboards book O history. McCann and Virtanen. If you wanna get picky you can add Tryamkin.  2 of the three suited up on the same roster numerous times. Near the end of the season (15-16) all three suited up. Example March 27 2016 vs Chicago. 

You are correct, I am wrong, I missed that (forgot actually) but since he hasn't.