oldnews Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 On 3/3/2019 at 4:15 PM, Mathew Barzal said: No, the problem lies in people putting too much stock in how we performed to start the year. Most contending teams are notorious for taking a while to play to their full potential. We're playing just as well as we were at the start, but the competition has stepped their game up with playoffs on the horizon. We never going to be a high scoring team. Pettersson is obviously fatigued after a long season and Horvat can only do so much with mediocrity on both his wings. Unfortunately Horvat is sitting at 57.7% dzone starts / 42.3% ozone - and has played two fewer games than Sutter and Beagle combined. His principal winger - is also injured - and has played 22 games this year. It's not just that he's playing with shutdown wingers - or guys that are only placeholding in the top 6 - but he's also playing a whole lot of shutdown - and the team is lacking a 2nd line / secondary scoring as a result. All that makes life a lot more difficult for EP - who is no doubt tired - and has also suffered injuries - but is pretty isolated in these circumstances, and keyed upon night after night. Whatever - it's probably a blessing in the longer run. They're putting in an honest effort, learning what the grind looks like down the stretch, while the team has more chances to develop some guys that are at or near NHL readiness.....and they're hosting the draft, so struggling with results is not going to hurt them longer run. But it's nowhere near as simple as a 'coaching rethink'. I think they should have more healthy talent in the top 6! What exactly is that thought worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS4quality Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 When you watch any other team break out of their zones against the Canucks they make it look is easy because our defensive strategy is to give up the zone. How many times do the opposition just dance into our end. Canucks can't gain the zone because they get stood up at the line by one player and the other defenseman goes and retrieves the puck. Some say this is because of a lack of talent, but I think it's really bad coaching. If I were the coach this team would only practice passing because they are extraordinarily bad at both short and breakout passes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 On 3/3/2019 at 6:58 PM, TheGuardian_ said: It is a defensive strategy, really it is, chip it out, dump it in and two forecheckers with 2 neutral zone checkers and a dman trailing, as soon as one of the first two misses he hightails it back to be the other dman or take up a lane. It has to be go go go because there are not enough players good enough for a puck possession game and most are too small to win a board battle. The Canucks get lots of shots, but many are from low chance spots, it isn't unusual for the Nucks to get 4 shots on goal per game from the other side of the redline. The getting stuck in the zone, one of the two neutral zone checkers is supposed to back off, SJ lured one and then passed to the other side creating a one on one or two on one. The aggressive nature of the press checking can be defeated with a couple of passes or a good puck possession player, in the d zone large players dominate behind the net and in the corners. Dump and pray hockey. Two deep neutral zone trap. You're right, but when our players get stuck it looks like they are far too interested in scoring than defend their own goal. Too much of everything going forward and practically nothing in defence... Hence why I call it to offensive. The result is DiPietro had to listen to a lot of $&!# he didn't deseeve. No goalie can handle such a crap defense. And our Ds get lauded as bad when it's the system Green use that makes them look really bad. Take some time, relax, pass the puck ten times more in their own zone before get offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirotashi Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 On 3/3/2019 at 1:26 AM, *Buzzsaw* said: I've been more than willing to give Travis Green and the coaching staff the benefit of the doubt... they are in the learning process... same as the players. But lately the team has been underperforming badly... there is no reason why a roster with the number of shooters the Canucks have should be so challenged to score... especially on the PP. With Boeser, Pettersson and Horvat, along with backups like Leivo, Goldobin and Granlund... all decent shooters... the PP should be able to deliver around the 20% mark, not 15%. That 5% deficit has been the difference in win/loss in a LOT of games. What I am seeing on the PP is a distinct lack of movement and crispness of passing. You can't get the defending team off balance with your players standing in one position and sliding leisurely passes back and forth. When the PK team knows exactly where everyone on the Canucks PP will be, then their job is a LOT easier. And here's the thing: That lack of pass speed and failure to change up positioning can be addressed in drills. So why isn't this being done? I don't buy that it is a failure of the players. But the key issue in my opinion is the lack of shots.... here we are with two of the best shooters in the game in Petey and Boes... and rarely do they get an opportunity to shoot the puck. What's wrong with this picture??? On the subject of even strength... The other failure I am seeing over and over again is the lack of a breakout system. No one on the Canuck forward lines ever seems to be every positioned to take the first pass with jump and speed. Half the time it ends up being the defense who carries the puck out of the zone... by which time the other team is already lined up and waiting. I don't see any system... the Canucks breakout always seems to be made up on the spot... instead of emerging from positioning and planning. The second big issue even strength is the failure to gain the zone in possession. Way too often we see a dump and chase game... which the Pettersson line is definitely not built for. When Petey is digging behind the net and bumping bodies, his real skills are being wasted. He needs space in front of the net to use his shooting and passing talents. Just about every other team in the league has developed drills to allow them gain entry in possession... we see it regularly... except from the Canucks... whose opportunities are few and far between. When was the last time you saw a Canuck cross the blue line and immediately drop pass to a trailing forward thus avoiding the poke check or stand up from the D? No, usually we see one player trying to stickhandle his way into the zone without any support, with the inevitable result being loss of possession. I accept this team has a poor defense, especially when Edler or Tanev is out... goals will be scored on them... but they should be scoring... they do have a lot of offensive talent. When they are being shut out the number of times they have been... something is wrong. From my perspective it all comes down to coaching. Now I accept this team has a cr*p schedule, with not a lot of time to practice, but when there is a will, there is a way... and I don't believe enough is being done to put structure to the team's offense. I am not in favour of firing Green... he has a lot of positive attributes... the players like and respect him, he is good at developing talent. But he need to put his nose to the video replays for PP/Breakouts and start developing new systems which will allow this team to live up to its potential. If one wishes to "tank" one cannot even appear to know how to win. Your questions and i know your not alluding to what im suggesting, are valid observations. Your going to say lack of drive and motivation or even coaching. I think this is what tanking looks like. Truth bombs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucklehead73 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Well a lot if people have some good insight and valid points... I tend to agree with much if the OP's post. But as well with many counter points. Breakouts are horrible... flip the puck up the ice and hope your forwards can battle to get the puck back. Good when your under pressure but this cannot be your gold standard breakout play... it's a turn over. The pp is indeed brutal but we have a fairly pedestrian blue collar defense who have little passing moxy and zero shooting skills. Remember ehrhoff and salo? We are a young team and we will not have the conditioning to run and gun all year. While I think travis green is smart enough to be able to watch tape and learn offensive tactics if it was needed I do question at times his ability to adjust when his tactics are not working. Case in point... breakouts... ugh... and the dump and chase. We really do not have the type of team to play the dump and chase game. So much time is wasted dumping it in and losing the puck and then desperately try to get it back as the opposition doesn't just dump the puck away. Puck support on the rush was where this is vital and where we had success early on... we carried the puck in and if we lost the puck the defense pinched hard in support and the forward came back to support as well leading to puck retrieval... and scoring chances with the opposition chasing instead of defending. Instead we started to rely on the chip and chase or dump in... now the puck battle is in deep where the defense cannot pinch in support. They have to back off as the opposition is not flat footed coming out of a scrum. This is where I question the coaching... You can see how players built for a dump and chase game, Roussell... can get is fast and battle for the puck... but he has no one to pass the puck to on the point... our shooters suck. Need the right players to dump and chase. And to those who don't think coaching matters... Barry Trotz says hi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory40 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 9 hours ago, Canucklehead73 said: Well a lot if people have some good insight and valid points... I tend to agree with much if the OP's post. But as well with many counter points. Breakouts are horrible... flip the puck up the ice and hope your forwards can battle to get the puck back. Good when your under pressure but this cannot be your gold standard breakout play... it's a turn over. The pp is indeed brutal but we have a fairly pedestrian blue collar defense who have little passing moxy and zero shooting skills. Remember ehrhoff and salo? We are a young team and we will not have the conditioning to run and gun all year. While I think travis green is smart enough to be able to watch tape and learn offensive tactics if it was needed I do question at times his ability to adjust when his tactics are not working. Case in point... breakouts... ugh... and the dump and chase. We really do not have the type of team to play the dump and chase game. So much time is wasted dumping it in and losing the puck and then desperately try to get it back as the opposition doesn't just dump the puck away. Puck support on the rush was where this is vital and where we had success early on... we carried the puck in and if we lost the puck the defense pinched hard in support and the forward came back to support as well leading to puck retrieval... and scoring chances with the opposition chasing instead of defending. Instead we started to rely on the chip and chase or dump in... now the puck battle is in deep where the defense cannot pinch in support. They have to back off as the opposition is not flat footed coming out of a scrum. This is where I question the coaching... You can see how players built for a dump and chase game, Roussell... can get is fast and battle for the puck... but he has no one to pass the puck to on the point... our shooters suck. Need the right players to dump and chase. And to those who don't think coaching matters... Barry Trotz says hi... Valid points and a great read. A couple games back I watched the Canucks win the draw in the offensive zone and dump it to an area that the other team was trying to pull the puck too. That's like losing the draw if you have it drawn up to give it right back. And that's been happening a fair bit. So with puck turnover after draws why try to win the face-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS4quality Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 A lot of people on here knew we'd be terrible at some point this season but having a glimpse of playoffs has made many of us bitter/sour/angry/upset/etc... I'm ok with losing this year. Once the core hits that 24-28 age group the team will get better. Their brains will be sharper and body's should be in peak physical form. I think the team is a few years away from competing because they are still young and have a lot to learn. But the question is are the right guys teaching them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 We're a mediocre, young, inexperienced, injured and rebuilding team. 'Systems' don't fix that. Time (and continuing to rebuild) does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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