[Discussion] Taking a page from the GSWarriors - the Canucks should go all in this summer for Karlsson and/or Subban

[Generational.EP40]

This would be about sending a message to the rest of the teams in the league. Showing them the Canucks mean serious business.

 

 

Hockey, now more than ever, is becoming similar to the NBA/soccer/NFL where it’s about acquiring the maximum amount of quality players possible and winning with them by simply having more top end talent than other teams. We’ve seen this recently in the NHL with Tampa, Toronto, Vegas, and a few other teams...they get as many top players as possible regardless of the cost and choose to work around it. The top players more often than not are the difference makers in games so if that’s a “problem” in people’s eyes, it’s better than no problem at all.

 

As the salary cap in the NHL keeps going up, teams are more and more inclined to pay superstar players close to the maximum cap % under the CBA in order to retain/obtain their services. Long gone are the days of a team cap structure as Gillis&Gilman did. You either have to pony up and pay the big bucks for elite players or get left behind without them if you choose to penny pinch. It’s as simple yet harsh as that; this is the new norm for the modern cap NHL - to pay top dollars for high end players and try your best to fill the rest of the spots with the remaining money.

 

 

...knowing that, what if the Canucks make a hard push for Karlsson via free agency and Subban via trade to get them together all in one summer? That’d be 2 Norris Trophy winners both under the age of 30 on the same roster, both right handed shots which is arguably the hardest position to find in all of hockey which just happens to be the Canucks biggest organizational weakness.

 

For people that think it’s just a funny thought, it’s actually very possible due to signs in the past and here’s why: The case for Karlsson...Swedish history in Vancouver, the track record speaks for itself. If you can remember, EK made the Canucks his only Canadian exception on his NTC before Ottawa ended up moving him. Swedes love VanCity and we also have the next Swedish superstar in EP which would entice him. As for Subban...if you remember, JB was after him at the draft before Montreal traded him. He even slipped up and publicly mentioned PK’s name before getting fined for doing so. Nashville will be inclined to trade Subban as they won’t be able to protect all their dmen for Seattle expansion and he looks to be the odd man out due to his dip in play and cap. I’d argue that has to do with Nashville’s immense depth and not having to rely as heavily on PK as he’s capable of. 

 

So with that, what if the Canucks signed Karlsson in the $10.5m-$11m range (which would make him the highest paid dman in the league next to Doughty’s $10m) & traded their 1st round pick this year (assuming they don’t move up and pick in the 5th overall-8th overall range) for Subban? EK would be enticed by being the highest paid dman and as before being open to coming to Vancouver all along. This would be for the cost of no assets. Preds would gladly take a top10 pick in order to move a dman to ensure they don’t lose one for nothing via expansion. It’d be a win-win scenario and best part of all, PK not having a NTC would leave options for the Canucks down the road if need be. And one of the biggest problems the Canucks have is dmen that can move the puck not just out of the defensive zone but up to the forwards. It’s a reason why we lack scoring and are one of the lowest scoring teams / occasionally can’t muster up a single goal in a game on top of not having healthy reliable dmen that just happen to be our top defencemen in Edler-Tanev...

Without a doubt getting 2 of the best transitional dmen would up the production of virtually all forwards on the team and help get the team on the scoresheet more often.

 

 

Edler - Subban

Hughes - Karlsson

Biega - Stecher/Tanev

..Schenn, Hutton, Sautner, Teves, Chatfield, Brisebois...

 

 

^new dcore. Forward group would remain about the same. Financially, Sutter would have to be moved and Gaudette would step up in his spot. Tanev might be redundant on the 3rd dpair so trading him could be an option as well. 

 

That is the type of move/ambition I’d like to  see. And honestly, it might be in the cards with JB being known to try and attempt to do such things to speed things up. I would be okay with that logic here because it’s not average players your talking about, it’s the best of the best. I’d be okay with keeping the forward group roughly the same because we’d still have EP+Bo as the top2 C’s who are more than capable as a duo. But more so, to ensure the blueline is not a liability (look at the Leafs).

[Shirotashi]

Dude Subban??? Seriously?Make a button for ONLY Karlsson. Subban is a non-starter for me.

[Generational.EP40]

1 minute ago, Shirotashi said:

Dude Subban??? Seriously?Make a button for ONLY Karlsson. Subban is a non-starter for me.

There is literally a “button” in the poll for that

[shiznak]

Hard cap vs. Soft cap.

 

You add Subban and Karlsson, then re-sign Edler means goodbye Pettersson.

[Shirotashi]

2 minutes ago, Generational.EP40 said:

There is literally a “button” in the poll for that

I dont want Subban mentioned in the same sentence as Karlsson

[Generational.EP40]

5 minutes ago, shiznak said:

Hard cap vs. Soft cap.

 

You add Subban and Karlsson, then re-sign Edler means goodbye Pettersson.

If it means no Edler that’s fine by me. But I’m sure they could move Tanev and keep him.

 

Pettersson is down the road, there’s a lot of salary coming off the books when his contract expires. Eriksson would only have 1 year remaining at that time as well where a trade could be made.

 

 

edit: as suggested in OP, you figure that out when the time comes. And it wouldn’t be anything astronomical. That’s a “problem” I wouldn’t have a problem working around. Tampa is doing it as we speak. It’s a reality and very much doable.

[naslund.is.king]

Draymond,Klay,Curry all players drafted by GS

Your move is more along the line of the Nets

[RL.]

Going "Golden State Warriors" is not something that applies to most other team sports other than basketball. As someone who follows basketball closer than I do hockey, I can say with confidence that a "top end" player in basketball means a whole lot more to a team than it does in hockey (or even football). On average, the top end players in basketball play 40+ minutes per night (out of 48 minutes) and can singlehandedly change the outcome of a game with how scoring and defending works.

 

Looking at hockey, there are so many other variables involved that simply adding all the best players doesn't ensure anything. Colorado back in the day with Kariya, Selanne being added to Sakic, Forsberg, Blake, and Foote was not enough to win a Stanley Cup. Tampa, as great as they are, still have no Cup to show for it with this core. 

 

With all the different elements involved in hockey, you have to be able to build a team with depth with players that can contribute throughout the lineup, and in different ways. A team full of the same type of players are easier to gameplan for make it easier to create defensive schemes that will shut down a certain style of play.

 

/rant.

[Generational.EP40]

8 minutes ago, naslund.is.king said:

Draymond,Klay,Curry all players drafted by GS

Your move is more along the line of Nets

It’d be easy if hockey only needed 10 roster spots too 

[Coconuts]

Not interested in giving up what we'd have to for Subban. Karlsson's health and foot make me wary of chasing him. Players of his caliber rarely hit ufa but still. I'd hate to have us throw the term and cap required only to have him fizzle out here thanks to injuries and whatnot.

[Hairy Kneel]

Timing isn't right for where we are. These are like glorified rentals like Tavares.

[hammertime]

I'm really excited for the Biega Stetcher pairing. 

 

 

[ButterBean]

If there’s any team from another sport the Canucks should model themselves after it’s the New England Patriots. 

[qwijibo]

Gonna take more than $11m for Karlsson and more than 5th overall to get  Subban. 

[Gnarcore]

The NBA doesn't have a hard cap now do they?  

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

HELL NAW to Subban.

[R3aL]

The only comparable to the GSW in NHL right now is Tampa Bay,

 

So it would be like saying if TBAY somehow Signed Karlsson and fit in the cap.

 

Comparison Doesn't apply to us.

[Generational.EP40]

6 minutes ago, R3aL said:

The only comparable to the GSW in NHL right now is Tampa Bay,

 

So it would be like saying if TBAY somehow Signed Karlsson and fit in the cap.

 

Comparison Doesn't apply to us.

True but get the gist of things...as in acquiring top talent and not worrying about the “problems” until they arrive down the road.

 

 

The closest NHL comparison would be when the Wild signed Parise and Karlsson that one summer I’m free agency. Made a huge splash. They’re still producing even now. Wild just didn’t have enough supporting cast to help them thus why they couldn’t become contenders. The Canucks on the other hand do have that due to drafting. Not to mention EK & PK are better than what Suter was then.

[Dixon Ward]

Forget Subban.  If Karlsson will come, it is a no brainer imho.  Instantly the best d we've ever had.  Allows Edler to be a great #2 and not worry so much about offense.  Tanev protects Hughes. Hutton and Stecher with Juolevi working his way in.  Woo takes over for Schenn/tanev after a couple of years.  Players are now where the belong.  This is the problem with the Leafs d. Reilly is a 1 but everybody else is a 4-6. We would have everyone in the right spot. 

 

Edler Karlsson

Hughes Tanev

Hutton Stecher

Juolevi Schenn

 

Tryamkin, Sautner, Brisebois, Rathbone, Woo all pushing for spots and taking them from Edler, Hutton, Tanev and Schenn in time.  

 

This would be a great, balanced, and dynamic defense.   

 

[R3aL]

1 hour ago, Generational.EP40 said:

True but get the gist of things...as in acquiring top talent and not worrying about the “problems” until they arrive down the road.

 

 

The closest NHL comparison would be when the Wild signed Parise and Karlsson that one summer I’m free agency. Made a huge splash. They’re still producing even now. Wild just didn’t have enough supporting cast to help them thus why they couldn’t become contenders. The Canucks on the other hand do have that due to drafting. Not to mention EK & PK are better than what Suter was then.

But signing big name free agents in nba has a much bigger impact in the nba then nhl.

 

smaller team individual players have greater impacts imo.

 

also golden state had a drafted and developed homegrown team before getting heavy in the free agent pool.

 

Minesota not a close coMparable  (i know u meant suter) to

Golden state warriors and neither is what your proposing. And I don’t think those two Minnesota natives lived up to those contracts either. In fact I believe they are considered horrible contracts.

 

im not trying to be a jerk, I just don’t like the comparable.

 

GSW won a championship in 2015 with zero Big free agents signed. 

 

Their top top players were all drafted or traded for years prior.

 

curry was the league mvp and him and Klay I’m pretty sure were top 2 in shooting.

 

they later added Durant a top 2-5 nba player to an already stacked squad. It just doesn’t compare.

 

Think ur suggesting the Toronto model, that is a more accurate comparison. Signing Tavares and Marleau and not worrying about cap problems until later.

 

i am all for adding high end talent via free Agency this season or next if management feels it’s right for our team though I’m not against that. I just don’t want to over pay on long term for second tier skill.

 

that would be a drag. Like a fat contract to Tyler Myers would make me cry.

 

I would love signing Karlsson as long as management and medical think he’ll be okay for the term of the contract and as for PK his contract scares me and dontthink it would be a great fit especially considering what May needed to be traded

for him.