Kanukfanatic Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, cyoung said: Give it a go. Lol My first paragraph pretty much summed up what I tried to type. Another poster said "Pouliot has the second worst plus minus on his team meaning he is one of the worst liabilities on his team". I said "...then you must think that our own Quin Hughes is one of the worst liabilities on the Canucks as he has a -9 and is the 3rd worst plus/minus on the Canucks." That is stupid. It is more complicated than just a plus/minus (which gets debated endlessly on here). That is all. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 38 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: Dang, hope that this doesn't mess with his momentum this season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said: My first paragraph pretty much summed up what I tried to type. Another poster said "Pouliot has the second worst plus minus on his team meaning he is one of the worst liabilities on his team". I said "...then you must think that our own Quin Hughes is one of the worst liabilities on the Canucks as he has a -9 and is the 3rd worst plus/minus on the Canucks." That is stupid. It is more complicated than just a plus/minus (which gets debated endlessly on here). That is all. Well ya, I totally agree. +/- it's a stat that shouldn't have that much sway at all ...he also said Washington was out of the playoffs and that ovechkins +/- plays a part... Lol Edited January 17, 2020 by cyoung 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said: My first paragraph pretty much summed up what I tried to type. Another poster said "Pouliot has the second worst plus minus on his team meaning he is one of the worst liabilities on his team". I said "...then you must think that our own Quin Hughes is one of the worst liabilities on the Canucks as he has a -9 and is the 3rd worst plus/minus on the Canucks." That is stupid. It is more complicated than just a plus/minus (which gets debated endlessly on here). That is all. Pouliot’s defensive IQ is that of a carrot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 35 minutes ago, cyoung said: Well ya, I totally agree. +/- it's a stat that shouldn't have that much sway at all ...he also said Washington was out of the playoffs and that ovechkins +/- plays a part... Lol I don't know how much +/- matters in the NHL because the competition is so good but when I played it 100% meant something. You either score while you're playing or get scored on. It's pretty simple. And this guys get scored on with a bad line change theory is absolute garbage. Every hockey player is responsible for making a good line change. No one just jumps off the ice on purpose so they won't get a minus. People on here act like 90% of the goals are scored this way. Even if it does happen it evens out unless you're just an ahole that doesn't care about hockey or your team. Someone posted about Quinn Hughes and suggested that his plus minus is irrelevant because he's a good player. It's not, his defensive game is obviously the one place he can get better, because his offence is great. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 38 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: I don't know how much +/- matters in the NHL because the competition is so good but when I played it 100% meant something. You either score while you're playing or get scored on. It's pretty simple. And this guys get scored on with a bad line change theory is absolute garbage. Every hockey player is responsible for making a good line change. No one just jumps off the ice on purpose so they won't get a minus. People on here act like 90% of the goals are scored this way. Even if it does happen it evens out unless you're just an ahole that doesn't care about hockey or your team. Someone posted about Quinn Hughes and suggested that his plus minus is irrelevant because he's a good player. It's not, his defensive game is obviously the one place he can get better, because his offence is great. He is one of the best d in the league for shot based metrics and is being used as our top d at this point. It is not so obvious that his d game needs work. he is never going to be physically imposing and a crease clearer he is not but his defensive game is probably more impressive than his offensive game, it is just more subtle and doesn’t show upon the counting stats. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said: I don't know how much +/- matters in the NHL because the competition is so good but when I played it 100% meant something. You either score while you're playing or get scored on. It's pretty simple. And this guys get scored on with a bad line change theory is absolute garbage. Every hockey player is responsible for making a good line change. No one just jumps off the ice on purpose so they won't get a minus. People on here act like 90% of the goals are scored this way. Even if it does happen it evens out unless you're just an ahole that doesn't care about hockey or your team. Someone posted about Quinn Hughes and suggested that his plus minus is irrelevant because he's a good player. It's not, his defensive game is obviously the one place he can get better, because his offence is great. Well he can always get better but I wouldn't say hes bad in his own end at all. He's been somewhat solid in my opinion. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said: I don't know how much +/- matters in the NHL because the competition is so good but when I played it 100% meant something. You either score while you're playing or get scored on. It's pretty simple. And this guys get scored on with a bad line change theory is absolute garbage. Every hockey player is responsible for making a good line change. No one just jumps off the ice on purpose so they won't get a minus. People on here act like 90% of the goals are scored this way. Even if it does happen it evens out unless you're just an ahole that doesn't care about hockey or your team. Someone posted about Quinn Hughes and suggested that his plus minus is irrelevant because he's a good player. It's not, his defensive game is obviously the one place he can get better, because his offence is great. Quinn’s so terrible defensively that Green insists on playing him the most minutes of any of our D, and matches him up against the other teams’ best players. I guess Green is trying to lose. He’s such a stupid coach. Where is your bridge, Calgary or Toronto? Edited January 17, 2020 by Alflives 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DrJockitch said: He is one of the best d in the league for shot based metrics and is being used as our top d at this point. It is not so obvious that his d game needs work. he is never going to be physically imposing and a crease clearer he is not but his defensive game is probably more impressive than his offensive game, it is just more subtle and doesn’t show upon the counting stats. You may be right. I think his defence is very good. Especially for a rookie. It's amazing and way better than people expected. I just thought his offence is off the charts and if he was working on something it would be how to handle some of the bigger players better. But I digress. You may well be right. Edited January 17, 2020 by Gawdzukes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Quinn’s so terrible defensively that Green insists on playing him the most minutes of any of our D, and matches him up against the other teams’ best players. I guess Green is trying to lose. He’s such a stupid coach. Where is your bridge, Calgary or Toronto? I don't recall saying he was terrible but I guess if I had to choose I would live under a bridge in Calgary based on the fact I hate Toronto more. But it's warmer in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Gawdzukes said: Someone posted about Quinn Hughes and suggested that his plus minus is irrelevant because he's a good player. It's not, his defensive game is obviously the one place he can get better, because his offence is great. Really? Are you talking about what I posted? Go back and read the post and if you find anywhere in the post that said "Hughes....plus minus is irrelevant because he's a good player" let me know. You need reading comprehension apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Alflives said: Pouliot’s defensive IQ is that of a carrot. Are you dissing carrots Alfie? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said: My first paragraph pretty much summed up what I tried to type. Another poster said "Pouliot has the second worst plus minus on his team meaning he is one of the worst liabilities on his team". I said "...then you must think that our own Quin Hughes is one of the worst liabilities on the Canucks as he has a -9 and is the 3rd worst plus/minus on the Canucks." That is stupid. It is more complicated than just a plus/minus (which gets debated endlessly on here). That is all. Yeah, it means that at even strength Hughes is on the ice for more goals against than goals for - at this point in his career. Now Hughes has the excuse that he is a rookie often out against the best players that other teams can ice. Another one of the factors considered by most people in evaluating +/- is deployment, I.e. who the player is out against. +/- does not measure special teams contributions, which includes PP - an area where both Hughes and Pouliot make significant contributions. But Pouliot does not have the excuse of inexperience, instead he just sucks at even strength as we found out in Vancouver - even though we tried to protect him by keeping him away from the best players on other teams - again, the factor of deployment. To take any statistic and take it to be meaningful outside of context is a mistake; to dismiss statistics by only regarding them outside of context is also a mistake. Even strength goals for and against considered contextually is meaningful. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 5 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said: Dang, hope that this doesn't mess with his momentum this season. Well that really sucks, but it will give us the chance to see more of Eliot, another very interesting young defender - and it will also mean we will likely see more of Youlevi on the PP - another thing to which I’m looking forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Wanless said: Washington is in first place in the league there bud Oops, misread the stats, you are correct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said: Oops, misread the stats, you are correct. Sorry dude...you said Washington was not in a playoff position but they are first in the league. After that, all the stats you mention are suspect at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said: Well that really sucks, but it will give us the chance to see more of Eliot, another very interesting young defender - and it will also mean we will likely see more of Youlevi on the PP - another thing to which I’m looking forward. Yeah. - Ollie took over Brogan's spot in the #1 Powerplay this evening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Alflives said: Pouliot’s defensive IQ is that of a carrot. Ditto, talent with no idea and understanding on how to use it in a structured system of pro sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Gawdzukes said: I don't know how much +/- matters in the NHL because the competition is so good but when I played it 100% meant something. You either score while you're playing or get scored on. It's pretty simple. And this guys get scored on with a bad line change theory is absolute garbage. Every hockey player is responsible for making a good line change. No one just jumps off the ice on purpose so they won't get a minus. People on here act like 90% of the goals are scored this way. Even if it does happen it evens out unless you're just an ahole that doesn't care about hockey or your team. Someone posted about Quinn Hughes and suggested that his plus minus is irrelevant because he's a good player. It's not, his defensive game is obviously the one place he can get better, because his offence is great. One thing that isn't factored into "Q"s plus/minus is his power play points...need to further analyze the plus/minus...+/- is a starting point for an individual, but it is a great team stat. The anomaly this year are the Flames who are "-9" as a team, but are in first place...if you look back each year at the year end team standings, pretty much teams that make the playoffs have plus stats and those who don't, have negative stats. Edited January 18, 2020 by Pete M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I Didn’t realize Rafferty had a 1 way contract with us for next season? https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/patrick-johnston-gm-benning-hasnt-ruled-out-possibility-of-tryamkin-rejoining-canucks from the province: On the right side, there could be an opening either for Brogan Rafferty, who has a one-way deal next season — meaning that if the Canucks were to reassign him to the AHL next fall, he’d get paid the same as if he were in the NHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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