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11 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Yeah. I think Rafferty is probably going elsewhere for NHL opportunity. Even if he wants to come back to the Canucks, do the Canucks want him back? 

Almost feels like Evan McEneny all over again.

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25 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Almost feels like Evan McEneny all over again.

Not sure how you see it that way. McEneny probably would have made the NHL but repeated injuries took their toll and ultimately ended his career prematurely.

 

The only limiting factor for Rafferty IMO was the fact that he is legally blind in one eye and I am wondering if the Canucks are viewing this in the same way they did when Malhotra sustained that serious eye injury and the team was reluctant to renew his contract. Perhaps it comes down to an insurance liability issue for the team if he plays in the NHL; not sure.

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Would love to see Brogan Rafferty signed to an AHL contract with Abbotsford (maybe at something like a $125,000 AHL contract, which is a far cry from the $700K equivalent that he made this past season on a one-way deal, but equal to what he was paid in the AHL in 2019-2020). 

 

This would allow the Aces/Aeros/Aviators to have a proven AHL d-man and would perhaps give the Canucks the first right of refusal to sign him to an NHL contract if there was a need for him with the big club. 

 

But I'm sure he would be able to get an NHL deal somewhere else, so it'll probably be the end of the road for him here.

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22 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Not sure how you see it that way. McEneny probably would have made the NHL but repeated injuries took their toll and ultimately ended his career prematurely.

 

The only limiting factor for Rafferty IMO was the fact that he is legally blind in one eye and I am wondering if the Canucks are viewing this in the same way they did when Malhotra sustained that serious eye injury and the team was reluctant to renew his contract. Perhaps it comes down to an insurance liability issue for the team if he plays in the NHL; not sure.

It was a bit more broad in the sense that both players were strong players in the AHL, particularly offensively, though I think Rafferty seems to have an offensive edge over McEneny. The Canucks didn't give either much of a shot (only so far for Rafferty).

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35 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

It was a bit more broad in the sense that both players were strong players in the AHL, particularly offensively, though I think Rafferty seems to have an offensive edge over McEneny. The Canucks didn't give either much of a shot (only so far for Rafferty).

Definitely a bit of an enigma as to why Rafferty was not given a better look as his AHL performance looked pretty solid, both offensively and defensively. I do think that McEneny was not as good defensively as they had hoped and had perhaps lost a step due to his repeated injuries. Very unfortunate if that was the case.

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1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

Almost feels like Evan McEneny all over again.

To be fair, I didn’t expect too much out of McEneny. I had higher hopes for Rafferty. Maybe he could’ve been a top four offensive defenseman, which we obviously don’t need much more of now because of the emergence of both Hughes and hopefully Rathbone (early signs are promising, but we’ll see how he holds up once the league has tape on him). 

 

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16 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Definitely a bit of an enigma as to why Rafferty was not given a better look as his AHL performance looked pretty solid, both offensively and defensively. I do think that McEneny was not as good defensively as they had hoped and had perhaps lost a step due to his repeated injuries. Very unfortunate if that was the case.

Do you think he gets another look this preseason? 

 

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5 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Do you think he gets another look this preseason? 

 

He is a UFA G6 so he could have many offers from other teams for his services. Not sure if he would be willing to re-sign with Vancouver or not.

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19 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

He is a UFA G6 so he could have many offers from other teams for his services. Not sure if he would be willing to re-sign with Vancouver or not.

I see. Well, he’s probably looking at the roster composition on the backend. The Canucks have Hughes, Rathbone, Schmidt, Myers, Juolevi, and Edler is probably most likely coming back on a short term deal. Can Rafferty beat out any of those guys for a top four role? No, I don’t think so. He’s not better than any of those players mentioned above. So that leaves a bottom pairing role. Is he strong enough, and defensively minded enough to compete for the bottom pairing defensive roles? I’m not sure either. He seems to be a bit of a tweener for me. Not quite good offensively, and not quite good enough defensively. So where does that leave him except on the outside looking in? 

 

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8 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I see. Well, he’s probably looking at the roster composition on the backend. The Canucks have Hughes, Rathbone, Schmidt, Myers, Juolevi, and Edler is probably most likely coming back on a short term deal. Can Rafferty beat out any of those guys for a top four role? No, I don’t think so. He’s not better than any of those players mentioned above. So that leaves a bottom pairing role. Is he strong enough, and defensively minded enough to compete for the bottom pairing defensive roles? I’m not sure either. He seems to be a bit of a tweener for me. Not quite good offensively, and not quite good enough defensively. So where does that leave him except on the outside looking in? 

 

That's funny to me. In Utica Rafferty had one of the highest +/- in the entire league. Juolevi on the other hand had the worse.

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55 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

That's funny to me. In Utica Rafferty had one of the highest +/- in the entire league. Juolevi on the other hand had the worse.

Plus minus is not an indicator of defensive prowess.

 

a solid D man who goes out on the hard mins will always have a lower plus minus than a offensive D man who maybe only gets favourable assignments 

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1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

At some point, considering his age, Rafferty has to get a serious pay cheque. I think he looks at Europe.

I think he would do well in the K or even the Swiss league 

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13 hours ago, UKNuck96 said:

Plus minus is not an indicator of defensive prowess.

 

a solid D man who goes out on the hard mins will always have a lower plus minus than a offensive D man who maybe only gets favourable assignments 

I hear experts keep telling folks the +/- means very little and yet the NHL still monitors it and hockey insiders constantly refer to players as plus or minus players. I understand it has flaws but over a long period it does ( IMO ) have some credit. All stats have detractors ... ALL. But if a players is constantly a minus player over a number of season any one would be foolish to tell me it counts for nothing. Frankly this subject is a popular concept followed primarily by the herd. When I hear the likes of Button use the stat .... well that's good enough for me. You can't keep getting scored on when player "A" is on the ice and simply dismiss it

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4 hours ago, Fred65 said:

I hear experts keep telling folks the +/- means very little and yet the NHL still monitors it and hockey insiders constantly refer to players as plus or minus players. I understand it has flaws but over a long period it does ( IMO ) have some credit. All stats have detractors ... ALL. But if a players is constantly a minus player over a number of season any one would be foolish to tell me it counts for nothing. Frankly this subject is a popular concept followed primarily by the herd. When I hear the likes of Button use the stat .... well that's good enough for me. You can't keep getting scored on when player "A" is on the ice and simply dismiss it

In the last 5-10 years, +/- has been overly criticized IMO. It definitely has flaws, but as you say, it still gives valuable info and especially in context, can be useful.

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9 hours ago, Fred65 said:

I hear experts keep telling folks the +/- means very little and yet the NHL still monitors it and hockey insiders constantly refer to players as plus or minus players. I understand it has flaws but over a long period it does ( IMO ) have some credit. All stats have detractors ... ALL. But if a players is constantly a minus player over a number of season any one would be foolish to tell me it counts for nothing. Frankly this subject is a popular concept followed primarily by the herd. When I hear the likes of Button use the stat .... well that's good enough for me. You can't keep getting scored on when player "A" is on the ice and simply dismiss it

Guess Bo Horvat can't be trusted to play defensive hockey.  He is after all, a career -71 and has consistently been a minus player.

 

Plus/minus is one of the most flawed stats.  Why is Button a tv analyst and not employed in a more meaningful hockey role?  Hmmmmm.

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4 hours ago, bigbadcanucks said:

Guess Bo Horvat can't be trusted to play defensive hockey.  He is after all, a career -71 and has consistently been a minus player.

 

Plus/minus is one of the most flawed stats.  Why is Button a tv analyst and not employed in a more meaningful hockey role?  Hmmmmm.

Context is extremely relevant. For instance, Horvat has a career offensive zone start % of just 44.2% which heavily influences both possession metrics and +/-. On top of that overall team performance also affects +/- and CORSI and should also be factored in. His career FO % is also 53.1%.

 

Nobody is saying +/- is a perfect stat on it's own, but literally no stat is good on it's own. It plays a role in statistical analysis alongside many other statistics. Anyone saying Horvat is terrible defensively because he's a -71 is making an incomplete and unsubstantiated claim, but to completely ignore +/- simply because it isn't a perfect stand-alone stat is too extreme IMO. Every single stat in hockey needs context, support, and corroboration with other stats to substantiate their implications.

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43 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Context is extremely relevant. For instance, Horvat has a career offensive zone start % of just 44.2% which heavily influences both possession metrics and +/-. On top of that overall team performance also affects +/- and CORSI and should also be factored in. His career FO % is also 53.1%.

 

Nobody is saying +/- is a perfect stat on it's own, but literally no stat is good on it's own. It plays a role in statistical analysis alongside many other statistics. Anyone saying Horvat is terrible defensively because he's a -71 is making an incomplete and unsubstantiated claim, but to completely ignore +/- simply because it isn't a perfect stand-alone stat is too extreme IMO. Every single stat in hockey needs context, support, and corroboration with other stats to substantiate their implications.

Yes, it doesn't even hold up to the eye test either. We've seen how Horvat can completely take over a game when he isn't forced to counter another team's top centre. I do think his defensive ability is overblown by Canucks fans, but both his offense and defense are underrated outside this market as well.

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On 6/11/2021 at 1:03 PM, bigbadcanucks said:

Would love to see Brogan Rafferty signed to an AHL contract with Abbotsford (maybe at something like a $125,000 AHL contract, which is a far cry from the $700K equivalent that he made this past season on a one-way deal, but equal to what he was paid in the AHL in 2019-2020). 

 

This would allow the Aces/Aeros/Aviators to have a proven AHL d-man and would perhaps give the Canucks the first right of refusal to sign him to an NHL contract if there was a need for him with the big club. 

 

But I'm sure he would be able to get an NHL deal somewhere else, so it'll probably be the end of the road for him here.

 

On 6/11/2021 at 2:11 PM, Kootenay Gold said:

He is a UFA G6 so he could have many offers from other teams for his services. Not sure if he would be willing to re-sign with Vancouver or not.

Why are people so sure he's going to have multiple NHL teams knocking down his door to offer him contracts? Hockey is full of guys like Rafferty and many teams will have their own fringe, 'Rafferty' already.

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15 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Why are people so sure he's going to have multiple NHL teams knocking down his door to offer him contracts? Hockey is full of guys like Rafferty and many teams will have their own fringe, 'Rafferty' already.

I'm not sure at all about it necessarily being an NHL offer but IMO a number of teams may look at him as a good fit, be that in North America or in Europe

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